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[Richard230]

Energica stands behind their product I had a couple minor issues with mine in the beginning and they went above and beyond to make things right I don’t think Zero owners feel the same.

There's no doubt about that. When I purchased my 2020 SS9-, the main key was missing. So after I received the bike, and used it for around 1,200 miles. Energica came to my house to pick it up and bring it to their shop. While it was in the shop, they did my first servicing for free, adjusted the chain and such, replaced the key module and a new set of keys. And delivered the bike back to my house here in Auburn, CA.


-Don-  Auburn, CA

Up until 2012 Zero would do the same, at least for me. They had excellent customer service, but that seemed to have faded away as the company started selling more motorcycles and had very little competition until Energica came along around 2017 in the U.S. (It seemed like Brammo sales didn't even show up on their marketing radar.)

[MrMogensen]

I was going through the same questions as you when I started looking at Electric bikes. My decision came down to the morality of selling you a bike laden with features, then charging you thousands of dollars to digitally "unlock" them. So you're potentially driving around with the extra weight of a "bigger battery" and "More powerful motor" without having access to those features... And those are just the tip of the iceberg.
..........

The other day I read that BMW is preparing to offer a subscription for various stuff like seatheaters, high beam assistant and other stuff... Driving around with everything installed (added weight) and not having access to it... 

[Richard230]

I was going through the same questions as you when I started looking at Electric bikes. My decision came down to the morality of selling you a bike laden with features, then charging you thousands of dollars to digitally "unlock" them. So you're potentially driving around with the extra weight of a "bigger battery" and "More powerful motor" without having access to those features... And those are just the tip of the iceberg.
..........

The other day I read that BMW is preparing to offer a subscription for various stuff like seatheaters, high beam assistant and other stuff... Driving around with everything installed (added weight) and not having access to it... 

I remain happy with my 22 year-old Saturn station wagon, with its roll-up windows, buttons to operate the AM/FM radio and sliders to work the heater. Once I paid for the car it was mine and I didn't have to pay for a monthly subscription to get the radio to work, to crank the windows up and down or to get the heater to function. 

[princec]

BMW can go f*ck themselves too, then.

Cas

[Day Trippin]

The responses have been very helpful. I wasn’t aware of the rain issue for the Zero but I rarely ride in rain so not a big issue for me.

I can understand how Zero forces you to unlock things and Energica gives you everything. At the same time, this could be an advantage with respect to battery capacity for a lot of people. By not making the full capacity available, people can’t really charge it to 100% and this well help with battery degradation. I am not sure I’d often need the extra range anyway. It could be useful to have a subscription option though to increase it if I wanted to go on a trip and raise it for that period of time. Reverse would be nice to have. I get the subscription model and in general hate it. I’d also have to lug around extra weight that I am getting no benefit for. At the same time, I can easily upgrade later if I decide I want it. That aspect worked out well my wife’s Tesla where I wanted more performance and was able to unlock it. It knocked off over a half second from the 0-60 time; 4.2 to 3.6 and was well worth the money.

I get the part where customer support may be better for Energica, but an 8 hour round trip minimum to the nearest dealer is a real downside for me. Just one unplanned trip would be a major inconvenience and I couldn’t easily ride the bike there. I plan on keeping it for a while so if there was an issue with the battery down the road, I’d have more coverage with Zero. Both batteries are air cooled but the forced air cooling on the Zero could be an advantage in some of the riding situations I would be in. The liquid cooling of the Energica for the motor would be a big plus.

I went and rode a Zero SR/S today. It actually matched up pretty well on the test ride I took. The one big plus with the Zero is I can get a fully faired bike (a big plus for me) and I have pretty comfy ergonomics on it. Overall the bike was a lot quieter when riding. No chain noise and a lot less high pitched whine going on.

Good to know about the gearing change for the Ribelle. That is one good thing about chain and sprocket but I have a few bikes and keeping the chains lubed is one of my least favorite tasks, especially when no center stand. I didn’t see one it and that is a big miss and I hate dealing with a lift as I have to adjust it for each bike I have without a centerstand.

The Experia ticks a lot of my boxes so maybe worth trying to test ride one if I can find a dealer. Maybe it isn’t quite as slow as I think it will be. I drive EVs all day long so I get the instant torque aspect. My daily driver may not beat a Ribelle or Ego to 60 mph, but it is at least as quick from 30 mph on up and will probably go through the traps quicker. I want my bike to be at least as quick as my daily driver car. If they had gone with the previous drivetrain and made it more like my V-4 Ducati Multistrada, I’d be all in with a deposit on one now. I think its performance is going to be like an old Suzuki 1000cc Vstrom in the quarter mile and I had one of those and it was pretty boring and adding a load just made it worse.

From a fit perspective, the Zero feels roomier for me. The Ego is the typical cramped crotch rocket. The Ribelle is better but not as comfy as the SR/S for me. I never plan to track the bike, or ride super aggressively on backroads (just moderately) so high pegs aren't a benefit for me.

Thanks for the perspective so far. It has been very helpful.

   

[DonTom]

The responses have been very helpful. I wasn’t aware of the rain issue for the Zero but I rarely ride in rain so not a big issue for me.

I never noticed any issues with either of my Zeros in the rain, including being left outside in heavy rain uncovered overnight. I have also ridden them both in rather heavy (unexpected) heavy rain without any issues.


I think it's an issue only with some Zeros and not others. Depends on your luck, I guess.


-Don-  Auburn, CA

[MVetter]

At the same time, this could be an advantage with respect to battery capacity for a lot of people. By not making the full capacity available, people can’t really charge it to 100% and this well help with battery degradation.

They already do this. The general guidelines in the EV world for this are for the battery cells to exist between 3.3-4.2vdc. If you make the batteries operate between those parameters you're extending the life of the cell. Zero packs operate between 3.39-4.157* vdc. Energica packs operate between ~3.41-4.14 vdc. Manufacturers are already attempting to idiot-proof the packs for you. Full isn't full. Empty isn't empty.

*these are the previous gen cell values. I do not have MY '22 cell voltage values.

[DonTom]

Good to know about the gearing change for the Ribelle. That is one good thing about chain and sprocket but I have a few bikes and keeping the chains lubed is one of my least favorite tasks, especially when no center stand. I didn’t see one it and that is a big miss and I hate dealing with a lift as I have to adjust it for each bike I have without a centerstand.

A centerstand can be added to the Zero SR/S. The Energia Experica comes with a centerstand as stock. AFAIK, centerstands cannot be added to the other Energica models. I find that to be a major hassle.

From a fit perspective, the Zero feels roomier for me. The Ego is the typical cramped crotch rocket. The Ribelle is better but not as comfy as the SR/S for me.

Have you tried out the Energica Esse Esse 9?


-Don-  Auburn, CA

[princec]

WRT centrestands... the SR/* bikes have holes for screw in bobbins so you can use a paddock stand, which I find to be an infinitely better solution ultimately because then you're not carrying an extra kilo of iron on a spring around everywhere you go that touches down on gnarly corners. As you rarely need to ever actually look at the belt the paddock stand solution works really well. I use it when I'm cleaning the bike too*.

Mines in the shop right now being fixed, and the bastards have a beautiful deep red Ribelle with panniers on the shop floor as a demo. I feel a terrible, inevitable dread creeping over my wallet.

Cas

* Which I rarely do because it throws codes when I get it wet ... dealer looking at that right now though.

[DonTom]

WRT centrestands... the SR/* bikes have holes for screw in bobbins so you can use a paddock stand, which I find to be an infinitely better solution ultimately because then you're not carrying an extra kilo of iron on a spring around everywhere you go that touches down on gnarly corners.

Isn't using those stands a two-man job?  The Energica have holes for that too, and I have the stands, but not the guts to use them as a one-man job.  I certainly prefer the centerstands.


-Don- Auburn, CA

[Day Trippin]

Paddock stands have benefits but I have 12 bikes. Six of them need a paddock stand. A total PITA to adjust them for each bike. Not to mention the taller bikes are pretty much a 2-person job to do it safely. I'll take the little extra weight for the greatly added convenience. I couldn't believe even my latest Africa Twin didn't come with a center stand. Trying to get that thing on a paddock stand with the panniers and top box on was an exercise in terror. Once I had the center stand on it, easy peezy, pumpkin squeeze.

I can't forget the one time my son "helped" me get the bike off the paddock stand. Basically he took it upon himself to do it. No, the bike didn't fall off or over. Instead, once it started to come down, the design of the stand made sure that the loop that is the handle popped up so quick it shattered the tail light. I'll chalk that up to operator error and poor design but never would have happened with a center stand.

Having a centers stand also means I can easily do a tire check before rolling out to look for anything that might cause a puncture. So much easier to get a quick shot of chain lube on the road.

The only bikes I haven't put a center stand on are things like my track day bikes or ones where I ride more aggressively; KTM Duke 890R for example. I hate to add more weight to a bike that is only 360 lbs dry before I stripped off any extra parts I could. If the heifer is already pushing 500 pounds, the extra kilo for the conveniences is well worth it on my chain drive bikes. They really should have looked at a belt for the Experia.

Back to my original topic, if Damon didn't almost seem like vaporware and no availability, it might be a viable option too. Lack of dealer for Damon and Lighting basically rule them both off my list.

[DonTom]

Paddock stands have benefits but I have 12 bikes. Six of them need a paddock stand. A total PITA to adjust them for each bike. Not to mention the taller bikes are pretty much a 2-person job to do it safely. I'll take the little extra weight for the greatly added convenience. I couldn't believe even my latest Africa Twin didn't come with a center stand. Trying to get that thing on a paddock stand with the panniers and top box on was an exercise in terror. Once I had the center stand on it, easy peezy, pumpkin squeeze.

I can't forget the one time my son "helped" me get the bike off the paddock stand. Basically he took it upon himself to do it. No, the bike didn't fall off or over. Instead, once it started to come down, the design of the stand made sure that the loop that is the handle popped up so quick it shattered the tail light. I'll chalk that up to operator error and poor design but never would have happened with a center stand.

Having a centers stand also means I can easily do a tire check before rolling out to look for anything that might cause a puncture. So much easier to get a quick shot of chain lube on the road.

The only bikes I haven't put a center stand on are things like my track day bikes or ones where I ride more aggressively; KTM Duke 890R for example. I hate to add more weight to a bike that is only 360 lbs dry before I stripped off any extra parts I could. If the heifer is already pushing 500 pounds, the extra kilo for the conveniences is well worth it on my chain drive bikes. They really should have looked at a belt for the Experia.

Back to my original topic, if Damon didn't almost seem like vaporware and no availability, it might be a viable option too. Lack of dealer for Damon and Lighting basically rule them both off my list.

I will soon have 11 bikes. I doubt if I will every buy a motorcycle again without a centerstand (unless one can be added, such as the case with my Harley and Kaw). Too many reasons to want one right on the bike. I could not care less about the extra weight, especially when it is down that low.


I discovered Harley does some things the right way. Such as have the dip stick marked for the side stand as well as the centerstand. Some of my bikes make checking the oil as a two-man job. Both wheels need to be on the level ground even with a centerstand that is NOT to be used for oil checking. I am done putting up with such BS as that, along with having no centerstand. I will never buy a bike again where any should be simple job is made into a two-man job. I wish we would all require such, so some design changes are made.


Perhaps the HD and KW way is the best of all. No Centerstand unless you want it.


-DOn-  Auburn, CA

[NEW2elec]

[quote

Back to my original topic, if Damon didn't almost seem like vaporware and no availability, it might be a viable option too. Lack of dealer for Damon and Lighting basically rule them both off my list.
[/quote]

No worries in a year or two when you're ready you can come to the Damon section and get you all the things you want now.
Seriously if you have any questions about them feel free to ask.

If I had to have something by the end of the year I'd go Experia ( I want range) or used cheaper SRS.  Enjoy.

[flynnstig82r]

I can understand how Zero forces you to unlock things and Energica gives you everything. At the same time, this could be an advantage with respect to battery capacity for a lot of people. By not making the full capacity available, people can’t really charge it to 100% and this well help with battery degradation. I am not sure I’d often need the extra range anyway. It could be useful to have a subscription option though to increase it if I wanted to go on a trip and raise it for that period of time. Reverse would be nice to have. I get the subscription model and in general hate it. I’d also have to lug around extra weight that I am getting no benefit for. At the same time, I can easily upgrade later if I decide I want it. That aspect worked out well my wife’s Tesla where I wanted more performance and was able to unlock it. It knocked off over a half second from the 0-60 time; 4.2 to 3.6 and was well worth the money.

Agreed. I've always understood why people were upset about the Cypher store (and some things about it are just pure cash grabs, like $200 for reverse or to enable heated grips), but I always look at things from a value for money POV and I'd rather have an upgrade that downloads over-the-air than have to take it to a dealer who keeps the bike for days or weeks and installs a part upside-down and backwards.

I get the part where customer support may be better for Energica, but an 8 hour round trip minimum to the nearest dealer is a real downside for me. Just one unplanned trip would be a major inconvenience and I couldn’t easily ride the bike there.

8 hours is a major distance! That would also give me pause.

I plan on keeping it for a while so if there was an issue with the battery down the road, I’d have more coverage with Zero. Both batteries are air cooled but the forced air cooling on the Zero could be an advantage in some of the riding situations I would be in. The liquid cooling of the Energica for the motor would be a big plus.

The failure rate of Energica's packs is a small fraction of Zero's. I finally heard of someone in the FB group who had theirs fail recently (not the charging fuse, but the pack itself). Until then, I had never heard of that happening.

I went and rode a Zero SR/S today. It actually matched up pretty well on the test ride I took. The one big plus with the Zero is I can get a fully faired bike (a big plus for me) and I have pretty comfy ergonomics on it. Overall the bike was a lot quieter when riding. No chain noise and a lot less high pitched whine going on.

I liked the SR/S that I rented in Arizona, and I agree about belts. I didn't really prefer it to my 2017 SR, though, since it wasn't as upright of a riding position and I liked the "dumb" display and firmware of the older bike that didn't nanny or annoy me. The SS9, OTOH, blew my old SR away! By the time I got it, the SR/S ride was too far in the past to compare them directly, but I have no doubt that the SS9 would win that comparison for me.

Good to know about the gearing change for the Ribelle. That is one good thing about chain and sprocket but I have a few bikes and keeping the chains lubed is one of my least favorite tasks, especially when no center stand. I didn’t see one it and that is a big miss and I hate dealing with a lift as I have to adjust it for each bike I have without a centerstand.

Agreed on chains. Philosophically, I have no problem maintaining my chain. In the real world, though, I just don't do it. No cleanings, no lubings, no checking the tension. When a mechanic tells me I'm taking my life into my hands, that's when I know it's time to get a new chain to neglect! Or a new bike...

The Experia ticks a lot of my boxes so maybe worth trying to test ride one if I can find a dealer. Maybe it isn’t quite as slow as I think it will be. I drive EVs all day long so I get the instant torque aspect. My daily driver may not beat a Ribelle or Ego to 60 mph, but it is at least as quick from 30 mph on up and will probably go through the traps quicker. I want my bike to be at least as quick as my daily driver car. If they had gone with the previous drivetrain and made it more like my V-4 Ducati Multistrada, I’d be all in with a deposit on one now. I think its performance is going to be like an old Suzuki 1000cc Vstrom in the quarter mile and I had one of those and it was pretty boring and adding a load just made it worse.

The early reviewers who rode them in the Dolomites said the Experias didn't feel any slower than the existing models, even though they were down on power. Peak torque at the rear wheel is still 900 ft/lbs vs 1,000 on the old models, and the peak 102 HP is only 7 less than my 13.4 kWh SS9 that weighs 50 extra lbs but still manages 0-60 in 3.0s. I bet Energica will offer a more powerful engine option when they re-design the bike in 5-7 years, but for now I think they wanted to maximize the range.