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[Tepco]

So what's your point MVetter? Do you think I'm the only one that will ever buy a bike with a dead battery? If I'm the first here who did, shouldn't it be a learning experience for others who may do the same? I buy salvage bikes all the time with blown engines and fix them, shouldn't be a reason to avoid it. Even with a dead battery the repair isn't crazy expensive. $30k bikes shouldn't be throw away bikes if the battery was neglected.
I went and talked to Sev in person as you recommended. I'm following advice here on the forum.
Forums are for helping and learning.
I will continue to fix this bike because that's what I do. I will film it all and post it on my YouTube channel to help others in the same situation. Whether they bought it dead or let it sit. Dead batteries are and will be an issue and going forward we need to know what our options are. I will provide that information and you can't stay on your high horse.

[Fran K]

So what's your point MVetter? Do you think I'm the only one that will ever buy a bike with a dead battery? If I'm the first here who did, shouldn't it be a learning experience for others who may do the same? I buy salvage bikes all the time with blown engines and fix them, shouldn't be a reason to avoid it. Even with a dead battery the repair isn't crazy expensive. $30k bikes shouldn't be throw away bikes if the battery was neglected.
I went and talked to Sev in person as you recommended. I'm following advice here on the forum.
Forums are for helping and learning.
I will continue to fix this bike because that's what I do. I will film it all and post it on my YouTube channel to help others in the same situation. Whether they bought it dead or let it sit. Dead batteries are and will be an issue and going forward we need to know what our options are. I will provide that information and you can't stay on your high horse.

Could you write a few paragraphs about your conversation with Sev?

Sorry I have not figured out how to quote little portions on this site, it is pretty simple elsewhere.

Could you put a link to your Youtube I guess they call it a channel?

There recently was a guy who laid his electric bike down or something along those lines.  The dealer in the interest of safety drained the battery to 0 state of charge and gave it back to him.  That one is kind of more interesting as it involves what collision coverage means and hence the rates for the insured.  Ant the total cost of ownership being lower advocates and their logic.

 I don't know for sure but the thought that this whole thing is in the hopes of someone or multiple folks contacting you saying if you part it out how much for this or that certainly comes to mind.  You did not pay more than what the good wheels and shock absorber and forks are worth did you?

How about the other guy on here helping via private messages is that working out,   That also goes for the helping guy and how realistic this user here is.

[Tepco]

I won't be parting it out.
Sev had a lot of good info and it was a pleasure talking to him about Ebikes and some of the components on the bike. I was there picking up a Zero. He also answered some key questions about the state of charge. Basically he said it needs to be sent to Energica to be fixed. He said he wouldn't have his techs swap the battery because it was to time consuming. He also said that he wasn't even allowed to sell me a service manual.
I went home and purchased a service manual on line. Looking through it, removing the whole battery unit looks easy enough using the proper safety methods and much less entailed than removing a gas engine. Energica offered that I just send the crated battery which will be the option I choose. I have 3 other bikes in the shop now I need to finish first before I get into removing the battery. I am also having a new shop built as business is picking up.

[Richard230]

I won't be parting it out.
Sev had a lot of good info and it was a pleasure talking to him about Ebikes and some of the components on the bike. I was there picking up a Zero. He also answered some key questions about the state of charge. Basically he said it needs to be sent to Energica to be fixed. He said he wouldn't have his techs swap the battery because it was to time consuming. He also said that he wasn't even allowed to sell me a service manual.
I went home and purchased a service manual on line. Looking through it, removing the whole battery unit looks easy enough using the proper safety methods and much less entailed than removing a gas engine. Energica offered that I just send the crated battery which will be the option I choose. I have 3 other bikes in the shop now I need to finish first before I get into removing the battery. I am also having a new shop built as business is picking up.

Sounds like a man with a plan. 

[MVetter]

As a general rule you should know that, in the case of EVs, the battery is essentially 80% of the cost of the vehicle. That's what I'm trying to impart, here. When you say things like this it shows me that you're coming at this with the wrong mentality:

I buy salvage bikes all the time with blown engines and fix them, shouldn't be a reason to avoid it. Even with a dead battery the repair isn't crazy expensive. $30k bikes shouldn't be throw away bikes if the battery was neglected.

Battery packs aren't something that can be 'fixed' if they have degraded past a certain point. There is a permanent chemical reaction that has taken place which means the only things the cells are good for at this point are complete breakdown and recycling to extract the heavy metals.

[Tepco]

As a general rule you should know that, in the case of EVs, the battery is essentially 80% of the cost of the vehicle. That's what I'm trying to impart, here. When you say things like this it shows me that you're coming at this with the wrong mentality:

I buy salvage bikes all the time with blown engines and fix them, shouldn't be a reason to avoid it. Even with a dead battery the repair isn't crazy expensive. $30k bikes shouldn't be throw away bikes if the battery was neglected.

Battery packs aren't something that can be 'fixed' if they have degraded past a certain point. There is a permanent chemical reaction that has taken place which means the only things the cells are good for at this point are complete breakdown and recycling to extract the heavy metals.

I would agree if there wasn't companies that repair ev batteries like Gruber. I will agree I'm learning the EV world, so I like to do a lot of research. There are more than one company that repairs EV cells. That's why refurbished battery packs are available. The only problem here is that not many have messed with Energica battery packs. These bikes are repairable, BTW this bike is not salvaged, it's a clean titled bike that suffered a low side and now has a dead battery.

[MVetter]

I would agree if there wasn't companies that repair ev batteries like Gruber. I will agree I'm learning the EV world, so I like to do a lot of research.

They do not repair. They replace the dead or weak cells. Thus the 'pack' is repaired, but the batteries themselves cannot be.

I don't know what condition your cells are in, but the hope is that they're above 2.00vdc. An EV cell's happy range is anywhere between 3.2 to 4.2vdc, and these numbers vary slightly based on chemistry, manufacturer, and probably dozens of other criteria. If the cells dip deep into the land of 2 volts, they can often be cautiously revived. I am *hoping* your cells are in that realm, but if they measure the pack and it's below 160vdc, every cell is considered toast.

The reason I use that number is because these bikes are in an 80s (series) configuration, normally operating between ~270-330vdc. Knowing this you can math out values for cell voltage vs pack voltage.

Basically fingers crossed at this point.

[SRL]

Ive got a 2021 Ribelle that was salvaged last year. According to the VIN records, it sat for a month before the salvage sale. The 21KW battery and electronics were removed and used in another conversion project and a 13 KW battery and electronics were installed from a 2018 eva. That eva was also salvaged and sat a couple months before being resold. I was told that this work was not done at the Energica dealer but by another shop.

It does show that getting a salvaged Energica can work out and that successful battery/electronics swaps are possible. Both bikes were lowsided, and didn't have much more than cosmetic damage. Im in the SF bay area and I suspect some involvement by local energica techs but don't know for sure.

[MVetter]

Ive got a 2021 Ribelle that was salvaged last year. According to the VIN records, it sat for a month before the salvage sale. The 21KW battery and electronics were removed and used in another conversion project and a 13 KW battery and electronics were installed from a 2018 eva. That eva was also salvaged and sat a couple months before being resold. I was told that this work was not done at the Energica dealer but by another shop.

It does show that getting a salvaged Energica can work out and that successful battery/electronics swaps are possible. Both bikes were lowsided, and didn't have much more than cosmetic damage. Im in the SF bay area and I suspect some involvement by local energica techs but don't know for sure.

Again, it all depends on the condition of the pack and the cells. If the pack was at, say, 250vdc the bike won't turn on (someone smarter than me will know exact values) but the cells are likely still safe to revive. If the pack was at 15vdc, like the dead ones I had here, you take anything else of value and send the cells in for recycling.

[PWM]

It is a worthy endeavor to explore 3rd party battery pack reconditioning possibilities - I applaud the OP's efforts.

Why not engage in DIY support, in open source form perhaps where the community collectively benefits including OEM sales...

I'm all in on technical support.  There's comprehensive documentation filed in the 13.4kw pack's patent work to guide diss-assembly.

The challenge will not be diagnosing bad cells or good practice in safety, the challenge is replicating pouch cell tab attachment means after securing suitable replacement cells which in itself is a hurdle, but this is where Mr. Vetter perhaps can lead us to a solution...could happen.

Laser welding is generally used in automation - if the packs are hand-built then resistive welding techniques are maybe at play?  This is the discovery element that intrigues all of us and if handled methodically w/ good pictures to document each step, we can reverse engineer our way and not give anything proprietary away....hence off-list collaboration may serve best for sensitive discussion.

Game? 
 

[MVetter]

There are like 2 people on this forum I'd trust to crack open a case and start disassembling cell packs, and I'm not one of them.

[Tepco]

I definitely don't want to open the cell pack up, mainly because if I did that I highly doubt Energica would take it as a "core" for a refurbished pack. I was interested in seeing if anyone refurbished cells on the east coast which doesn't look like there is. Companies that swap Nissan leaf, Toyota Prius, or Tesla batteries yes but just not enough Energicas around yet for anyone to dig into it.
I'll take photos and videos when we remove the battery pack and ship it off.
I think a battery exchange might be something that would work in the future? One thing I did find out through research is that several have had to have batteries replaced due to neglect or not understanding battery maintenance.

[EVASS9539]

Newbie E bike owner here too in a similar boat.... I picked up a 2019 Energica EVA SS9 that has a blinking red light on upper left of cluster but will not charge on 110 garage outlet or connect via USB to phone. I will post a new thread but just checking here as it is kinda similar situation.

[Tepco]

If you still have a blinking light most likely it is a connection issue or initiation issue. As far as mine it had no blinking lights or anything I'm sending ithe battery to energica for a test/ recovery or replacement.