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[Mr Analog]

Hi everyone, I wonder if you can help me with a charging problem.

I recently purchased a 2018 DSR with a charge tank and tried out level 2 charging for the first time this weekend. I charged at two locations, both with 6kW ChargePoint stations. The first charge went pretty well. The bike was at about 70%. It charged up to 95% and then the bike shut down. I thought it was weird that it stopped by itself before 100% but I didn’t want to wait around for the last 5% anyway so I moved on.

The second location was where I ran into trouble. The bike was at about 50%. I plugged in, verified that it was charging at about 6kW, turned the key off, took it out and walked away. When I came back maybe 10 minutes later the bike was completely shut down: no battery indicator or flashing charge light.

The ChargePoint indicated that it was still charging so I tuned the bike back on. It resumed charging and indicated that it was at about 60%. Then it shut down again after a few minutes with another 3-5% charge. I turned it on and it resumed again, then shut down again. At one point I ended the charge and started from scratch. Then I tried a different charging station (there were several at this location). Same thing every time. The bike shut down after a few minutes but the ChargePoint indicated that it was still charging.

I kept charging the bike up in small increments until I reached about 75% then I rode home. I never saw any error codes but I’m not sure if I was ever watching the screen at exactly the moment it shut down.

Has anyone else expierienced this? Any tips or troubleshooting techniques I should try?

FYI, the bike is in virtually showroom condition with only about 1300 miles and the charge tank was already installed when the original owner purchased it. Other than the wonky charging, the bike operates perfectly and the battery pack appears to be in great condition. Cell balance is 1-2 mV at 100% and I get about one mile per 1% even when riding aggressively or at freeway speeds. The original owner said he kept the onboard charger plugged in all the time and only used the charge tank once to test it out.

[DonTom]

Has anyone else expierienced this? Any tips or troubleshooting techniques I should try?

Welcome!


Have you tried charging with the key left on to see what happens?


I am wondering if the contactor is dropping out when the bike is off while you charge. Keeping the bike on will prevent the contactor from dropping out.


Check that and from there I or others here can make other suggestions if it doesn't drop out while the key is left on.


-Don-  Reno, NV

[Mr Analog]

Thanks Don!

No, I haven’t tried intentionally leaving it on but I did leave it on for a while (around 15 minutes) when it charged from 70% to 95% in one go. As I recall, it stopped charging not long after I turned the key off. I remember because I read the instructions during that first charge and realized I was supposed to turn it off.

I’ll test the theory this weekend by charging with the bike on and off at a single charge station and report back. Thanks for the tip!

[MIKKW]

Hi everyone, I wonder if you can help me with a charging problem.

I recently purchased a 2018 DSR with a charge tank and tried out level 2 charging for the first time this weekend. I charged at two locations, both with 6kW ChargePoint stations. The first charge went pretty well. The bike was at about 70%. It charged up to 95% and then the bike shut down. I thought it was weird that it stopped by itself before 100% but I didn’t want to wait around for the last 5% anyway so I moved on.

The second location was where I ran into trouble. The bike was at about 50%. I plugged in, verified that it was charging at about 6kW, turned the key off, took it out and walked away. When I came back maybe 10 minutes later the bike was completely shut down: no battery indicator or flashing charge light.

The ChargePoint indicated that it was still charging so I tuned the bike back on. It resumed charging and indicated that it was at about 60%. Then it shut down again after a few minutes with another 3-5% charge. I turned it on and it resumed again, then shut down again. At one point I ended the charge and started from scratch. Then I tried a different charging station (there were several at this location). Same thing every time. The bike shut down after a few minutes but the ChargePoint indicated that it was still charging.

I kept charging the bike up in small increments until I reached about 75% then I rode home. I never saw any error codes but I’m not sure if I was ever watching the screen at exactly the moment it shut down.

Has anyone else expierienced this? Any tips or troubleshooting techniques I should try?

FYI, the bike is in virtually showroom condition with only about 1300 miles and the charge tank was already installed when the original owner purchased it. Other than the wonky charging, the bike operates perfectly and the battery pack appears to be in great condition. Cell balance is 1-2 mV at 100% and I get about one mile per 1% even when riding aggressively or at freeway speeds. The original owner said he kept the onboard charger plugged in all the time and only used the charge tank once to test it out.

I purchased a new 2021 DSR, equipped with a Level 2 compatible Charge Tank, a month ago. I took it for a short test ride, then trailered it home. At home I took it for a 22 mile familiarization ride, ending at 76% remaining charge. I plugged it in to a brand new Lectron level 2 charger I purchased online through Amazon. The charger indicated 235 Volts at about 32 Amps and a calculated charge time of 30 minutes. The Lectron was plugged into a 240 VAC, 40 Amp circuit. I switched the DSR off, set a timer and walked away. Thirty minutes later I found the breakers tripped and the bike inoperable. There were several "flashing" codes and a couple of numeric codes. It took me a while to sort through them. Mostly they were about the contactors. Because it was a brand new bike I didn't want to void the warranty by messing with it so I loaded it back into the trailer and returned it to the dealer.

Both Zero and the dealer have been very cooperative. Zero is covering all repairs. They have replaced the MBB (Main Bike Board), then the motor controller, and now they are replacing the motor.  I have also contacted Letron to ask if their unit was compatible with a Zero motorcycle. They responded quickly and stated they were handing it over to their technical people and I would receive a reply within 24 to 48 hours. There has been no further reply from Lectron, even with one email prompt after waiting several days. At this point I have no confidence in the Lectron unit and will be replacing it with something manufactured, or at least endorsed by Zero.

To say that I am disappointed would be an understatement, however, I have been happy with the attitudes at both the dealer and Zero. I am confident Zero will make appropriate repair decisions and get the bike back to me in good working order, just as importantly will be hearing about what they think happened and what I can do to prevent a re-occurrence.   This episode also makes me quite leery of random charging stations, even though the industry claims they are safe to use.

Any thoughts?

[DonTom]

Any thoughts?

All the J-1772's are simply a 240 VAC power supply. Not much else.

The charger is your charge tank. The charge tank charges the battery, the J-1772 ( or the Lectron granny cable) only supplies the AC to the input of your charger. To blow a 40 amp CB, you would need a load of around 9,600 watts. I assume your charger is 6KW. 

Sounds like something could have shorted out in your charge tank.

But why are they replacing the motor,  controller and MBB?

And I don't see how there can be an incompatibility issue with the Lectron  That's like assuming an AC outlet is incompatible.

-Don-  Reno, NV

[Mr Analog]

Update: I used the charge tank twice today with no issues.

The first charge was at a Blink station. I started at about 75% and charged up to 96%. I left the bike turned on for a full minute or two before turning it off and taking the key out. Charge rate was about 5kW. The rate of charge seemed normal (around 1% per minute) and it charged continuously until I took the plug out.

The second charge was at a Volta station. This time I started at 49% and charged up to 76%. Wattage was between 5.5kW and 6kW. Like the first charge, I left the bike on for a minute or two then took the key out. Again, it charged continuously until I decided ti stop.

The only odd thing I noticed during the second charge was that the remaining time cycled from 0:00 to around double the realistic time, then settled at a realistic time. For example, at 70% charge it would show 0:00 then 1:00 then 0:30 over the course of about one minute. It seemed to be doing this whenever I checked on the bike during the charge.

I didn’t monitor closely enough with the app to determine if the wattage was actually dropping or not. I also didn’t notice the behavior during the first charge, but I can’t rule out the possibility that the same thing was happening but just didn’t register. I’ll pay closer attention to the time remaining in the future.

Needless to say, I’m happy the charger seems to be working. Now I need to try another ChargePoint location to see if there’s any correlation between the issues I had last week and ChargePoint hardware. I’ll keep this thread updated with results.

The thought occurred to me that maybe the J port contacts are simply dirty or oxidized from sitting unused for the last 3 years. If so, then plugging in a charger a few times could clean them enough to get a more stable connection. That sounds like wishful thinking so I’m sticking to a troubleshooting mentality until I have more data points. I will, however, take a close look at the J port for any signs of oxidation.

[angrygirafe]

Mr. Analog, it sounds like your problems are very similar to my 2018 S with Charge Tank. I haven’t figured it out. Coming up on the 8k mile maintenance and I’ll be asking them to look into it.

https://www.electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=10851.0

[MIKKW]

Any thoughts?

All the J-1772's are simply a 240 VAC power supply. Not much else.

The charger is your charge tank. The charge tank charges the battery, the J-1772 ( or the Lectron granny cable) only supplies the AC to the input of your charger. To blow a 40 amp CB, you would need a load of around 9,600 watts. I assume your charger is 6KW. 

Sounds like something could have shorted out in your charge tank.

But why are they replacing the motor,  controller and MBB?

And I don't see how there can be an incompatibility issue with the Lectron  That's like assuming an AC outlet is incompatible.

-Don-  Reno, NV

Thanks for the insight Don. I'm still new to this EV stuff but being forced to learn rapidly. I posted an update elsewhere on the forum.
The shop called to say the bike failed to charge overnight and they are replacing the Charge Tank next week.
 
A friend once opined that more Lemons were made at the dealership, and not the factory. In this case it could be true, since the Charge Tank is a delaer-added item and that seems to be where the problem originated. I have absolutely Zero evidence of this, just a feeling. I'm a bit of a bulldog when it comes to Root-cause analytics and it pains me a bit not to be present to look over the technician's shoulder. However, as long as Zero is honoring their warranty I will keep my nose out of their shop.

[MIKKW]

Update: I used the charge tank twice today with no issues.

The only odd thing I noticed during the second charge was that the remaining time cycled from 0:00 to around double the realistic time, then settled at a realistic time. For example, at 70% charge it would show 0:00 then 1:00 then 0:30 over the course of about one minute. It seemed to be doing this whenever I checked on the bike during the charge.

Mr A
Like you, I am trying to figure out what went on during my first, and disastrous, charging attempt. I read somewhere in the charging instructions that the small on-board charger (OBC) works in tandem with the Charge Tank Charger (CTC). At the very start of the charge cycle the dash reads out the information from the OBC, after 15 or more seconds the dash will then update the anticipated charge time calculated after the delayed activation of the CTC. This may account for the differences in reported charging time calculations you mentioned. If that activity cycled during charging WITHOUT turning the key off and on it may indicate and unstable CTC?

In my case my ignorance of this behavior may explain why I did not notice anything amiss. I simply connected the bike to my home Level 2 charger, scanned the read-out on the Lectron, turned off the key and walked away.  My bad?   If I ever get my bike back you can bet I will be hyper vigilant during my first few charges.   DonTom's explanation of the nature of the charging cord's role in charging was VERY helpful.

Safe travels,
Mike

[Mr Analog]

I read somewhere in the charging instructions that the small on-board charger (OBC) works in tandem with the Charge Tank Charger (CTC). At the very start of the charge cycle the dash reads out the information from the OBC, after 15 or more seconds the dash will then update the anticipated charge time calculated after the delayed activation of the CTC. This may account for the differences in reported charging time calculations you mentioned. If that activity cycled during charging WITHOUT turning the key off and on it may indicate and unstable CTC?

I used the charge tank again last weekend. Charged from <50% to about 90% with the key out. It seemed to charge continuously with no interruptions. However, the cycling remaining time behavior was the same. It went to 0:00 every few minutes, then to about double the expected charge time and then settled at a realistic charge time.

I’ll time the display cycling more carefully next time, and I’ll also try to measure how long it takes to charge every x%.

[MIKKW]

I picked my DSR up at the dealer yesterday after nearly 8 weeks of repairs. At least it ran well.
Back to my original issue, Can I trust my Charge Tank?  Does anyone know who manufactures them? It looks like maybe Delta-Q. I really want to be certain I am supplying the right voltage and amperage to the bike. The dealer suggested the charge cable in the Zero catalogue, but that is limited to 20 Amps although it looks like it might also work on 240VAC. I am reluctant to connect to anything above 120VAC until I get this right.
Alternatively I am leaning toward dumping the bike and taking a significant financial loss. I live in a canyon and my daily run is 11 miles one way, mostly uphill including a few miles at freeway speeds, so the mileage isn't exactly great. I am absolutely spoiled by the performance of my BMW 1200 GS (Heated grips and seat, cruise control, Navigation, headset coms, etc., etc.) I really wanted the Zero to work out, but these issues plus another $2,000+ for a Charge Tank that doesn't seem to work as advertised...?
Over 60,000 miles on the GS, not a single over-night in the shop, and a purchase price (only slightly used) that was the same as what I put out for the DSR with trimmings.
Mike

[mdjak1]

Since you picked it up from the repair, have you tried charging on a level 2 charger?   I've got a charge tank on my 2018 SR and it works fine.   I have a ESVE at home that works off a 14-50 plug in my garage but sometimes I stop off at a local supermarket that has free level 2 chargers and plug in there while shopping.   Good to test the charge tank on multiple different points to be sure the fault isn't with your ESVE.    I assume you know you have to initiate the level 2 charge with the key in the ON position or with the bike also plugged in to 120 volts via the normal charging plug? 

[flynnstig82r]

I've had similar problems on my '17 SR with the 2.5 kW charge tank. The OBC almost always charges to full, but the CT cuts out several times between low SoC and 100% whether it's plugged into 120 or 240 volt sources and the logs show a BMS fault. When used in tandem with the ElCon 3.3 kW charger, the CT will cut out and the ElCon will continue to charge by itself up to 95% SoC, which I find puzzling if it's a BMS issue. I'm going to try to get it diagnosed by the dealer, since if it's a BMS issue, it should still be covered under the 5-year powertrain warranty.

MIKKW, if you're looking for an electric that can match the refinement of that GS, you're going to be disappointed. Even other gas bikes can't do that. However, if you end up selling that DSR or getting Zero to take it back under the lemon law, you might want to try an Energica. I just bought a gently-used SS9 13.4 kWh and I find it to be much closer in comfort and refinement to my old Ducati Multistrada 1200S than the Zero. I never regretted going electric, but I did miss that Ducati sometimes!

[MIKKW]

Thanks for the posts!  I have not tried a commercial L2 charger yet. The nearest is over 20 miles from home, so not quite convenient although it would take some polish off a fully charged battery for the test. I would like to try some of the suggestions but I am not certain I will keep the bike, although it has nothing to do with this repair experience. Some folks have suggested a Lemon Law return but I don't think that qualifies here. The dealer did take a long time to effect repairs but at this point it is working perfectly.  If I run in to any further issues, however, I could change my mind.

This forum has been an outstanding source of information and support, thanks everybody!!!