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[sharagan]

Hi Guys,

has anyone else noticed how on the home page and every review they blatantly clame to be able to charge the 17.3 battery in one hour?

To substantiate that claim:

they mark the nominal capacity as 110%.
They give the charge target as 95%
The charger setup gives 12.6kW

So 95% of 110% (usable capacity 15.2 kW) is about 13kW.
This is just absurd.

I am even sceptical about getting those 13 kW into that battery  with that 12.6 kW charger, as the efficiency for sure isn't 105%.

I find it to be false advertising with the aim to desperately catch up to the competition with manipulated numbers.

[ms_smart]

This would be my math:

I start with my SR/S: The label says 14.4 kWh (Nominal 12.6 kWh). This is how things are calculated:
14,4 kWh = max Voltage (cell) * capacity(cell) * #cells/module * #modules = 4.15V * 31AH * 28 * 4
This is not the energy you can store into the battery since the voltage is not constant. It drops during discharge. The average (or nominal) voltage of a cell is 3.65V. If you do the same math with the nominal voltage you get 12.6 kWh.
That means: The claimed nominal capacity is the brutto capacity of the battery. Since Zero calculates with buffers to avoid a complete discharge the capacity you can really use is only 11.1 kWh. Proof: My bike claims a pack_capacity_ah of 109. Given a Nominal voltage of a module of 102.2V (28x3.65V) this multiplies to 11.1 kWh.
That means: The usable capacity of a 2020 SR/S is ~11.1 kWh. The claim, that this can be charged in one hour (12 KW charger)  is true. I have actual proof for it.

If we now take this math to the 2023 models:
Capacity on the label = 17.3 (completely useless metric since it does not reflect anything useable but is somehow common to use in the indutry)
Nominal capacity = 15.2 kWh (This is NOT the usable capacity!!!)
I assume, that 110% means, that it can get charged to the absolut max without leaving any buffer. But there is still a buffer at the low end. Lets assume 5%.
Usable capacity = 14.5 kWh (110%)
100% capacity = 13,1 kWh
95% capacity = 12,5 kWh

Since the new charger can charge with 12.6 kWh and we have 15% buffer left to the very top, one hour is not completely off. I also find it realistic to charge the remaining 15% in 36 minutes.

I have read through all the battery claims from Zero on the new DSR/X and find them all accurate.

[TheRan]

The fact that they're calling the capacity on the label and the one they brag about in all the marketing 110% doesn't sit right with me. It makes some sense on the bikes that have the upgraded capacity via the Cypher store, but not for bikes that don't have that option and only come with the full capacity. Yes I get that to charge to the full capacity you have to choose an option in the dash but that's no different to many electric cars that default to less than 100% charging, what Zero calls 100% should simply be 90% or whatever it calculates to be and their 1 hour charge time should be to 80% or whatever.

[sharagan]

charge times and SOC percentages are with other Zero models taken from the nominal battery capacity, as done by other companies.

If you change the nominal capacity or the full state of charge to 110% so that you can have more optimistic charge times on the main page and on the press launch you are deceiving your audience.

if a battery has for example 57 Ah (7.2 Longbrick) the charge time for that battery is the time it needs to reach those 57Ah, so 100% and not 85%, which would be the imaginary 95% if you make that SOC level to be 110% just for show.

....ohterwise you would only charge 49 Ah into that battery and claim you charged it up.

[MVetter]

#modules = 4.15V * 31AH * 28 * 4

The modules, as recognized by the bike, are 28.5Ah, not 31.

[Richard230]

By now you are likely fully saturated with DSR/X reviews, but here is another one by Revzilla: https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/2023-zero-dsrx-first-ride-motorcycle-review

In their review they make a few comments regarding the 110% battery capacity and charging time claims. I agree that Zero really didn't have to make such confusing claims regarding the specifications for their battery and charging times.  I think most people wouldn't know what to make of something being filled over 100%. 

[DonTom]

I think most people wouldn't know what to make of something being filled over 100%. 

It's pretty obvious to me that they are saying do not overfill unless you really need that extra range.


IOW, do not do what I do most of the time, charge to 100% because I usually need the extra range.

-Don-  Auburn, CA

[MVetter]

By now you are likely fully saturated with DSR/X reviews, but here is another one by Revzilla: https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/2023-zero-dsrx-first-ride-motorcycle-review

This is a good read because it's by the dude who rode a DSR 1000 miles through Colorado trails offroad. He's got some cred, as it were.

[ms_smart]

#modules = 4.15V * 31AH * 28 * 4

The modules, as recognized by the bike, are 28.5Ah, not 31.

Interesting. I thought about the cell capacity 2 years ago and found this wiki: https://zeromanual.com/wiki/Battery/Cells It says, that from 2018 Zero is using Farasis 32AH. I assumed, that this is based on 4.2V and therefore reduced it by 1AH. The other reason why I assumed 31AH is, that  4.15V * 31AH * 28 * 4 multiplies to 14.4 kWh.
If you are right (and I have no reason to not believe you) my formular is obviously wrong. Appreciate some guidance since I am really interested in it.

[MVetter]

Yeah that would make sense but that's not how it is. The 14.4 pack is 114Ah as recognized by the bike. Zero puts a soft cap on for longevity. Their cell values are 3.39-4.157vdc which translates to 95-116.4vdc for pack voltage.