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[Artemis]

So I took my 3 month old Zero DSR to the dealer to install a rain guard and replace a crushed bar end plug. Simple as that. On this occasion, I asked them to also do the routine maintenance, which is supposedly required according to the owner's manual. The guy told me he just needs to hook the bike up to the PC so Zero can see it's been checked on.
Almost on my way to pick up the bike two days later, I first called, just to learn that he tried to update my DSR's firmware, which failed and now the bike won't start anymore. He then got in contact with a guy from Zero for remote support.
This was two weeks ago and there doesn't seem to be any progress still. My DSR had been working flawlessly before, I even did a firmware update successfully once using the phone app, and there were no further updates available since then.

I'm asking advice on how to proceed with this case. My dealer is very nice, but I get the feeling they're not very knowledgeable with the Zeros. Despite that, they and Zero require all maintenance to be done by the dealer. I know this is a pain point for many Zero owners, I'm just wondering if anyone has experience this particular issue before. Would you recommend
- Insisting on a replacement if they can't get the bike to work soon
- Just wait it out (if there's no other option...)
- Any advice on how to 'reset' the firmware? I looked up https://zeromanual.com/wiki/BMS_Reset_Procedure, but I can't imagine they haven't at least tried this stuff?
- Another thread mentioned that the dealer had to update their PC software first. Could this still be an issue?

I will call my dealer soon for an update (no pun intended) and am just trying to figure out what my options are. Any advice is most welcome
Thanks and safe riding

[Auriga]

Honestly, I'm betting that your dealer hasn't contacted Zero, or has stopped talking to them. When a dealer calls Zero, we get a diagnosis or next step or something. Your dealer should know what that is.

Zero has a regular phone line that anyone can call for dealer support, It's open during regular business hours on weekdays Pacific time. If you give them your VIN, they can look up all records of the dealers contact with them and what the next step is(if they reached out).

Worst case it's an MBB replacement, but it could be as simple as reflashing the firmware. Sometimes they have to update the software, but it's available 24/7 and takes 20min to do.
Two weeks is kinda long for the time to get a new MBB typically, its usually a week max.

[Crissa]

When the Zero software bricked my bike, they sent out a board to replace it.  The dealer didn't have to wait for an answer, but we did have to wait a couple weeks for the board.

Most maintenance on the schedule my Zero came with doesn't require a Zero dealer?

-Crissa

[Artemis]

Thanks a lot for your answers! That's very helpful already!
I should have mentioned that I live in Europe, I think Zero relies a bit more on the dealers here to handle communication and ordering of parts. Still, I could reach out directly to their European office if my dealer doesn't have anything to show for tomorrow. It's also possible they're waiting on a new MBB now 🤞

[Curt]

Bricking ought not to be possible. One needs two firmware sections in flash memory. The upgrade procedure is to erase and program the inactive section, then if the checksum verifies OK, switch a pointer that indicates which section is the active one. I wonder if Zero did it this way.

[travbee]

Correct. I was under the impression that for a few years now Zero has done an "a/b" type firmware. Having enough memory to fully store and checksum the pending update and backing out of the flash goes wrong.

[Shadow]

Correct. I was under the impression that for a few years now Zero has done an "a/b" type firmware. Having enough memory to fully store and checksum the pending update and backing out of the flash goes wrong.

Since some of the 2017 MBB, definitely the 2016 this was not an option as there was not enough data storage. Not sure if all 2017 had the additional data storage. Up to 2016 though there wasn't a possibility for a/b.

[Crissa]

The 2014 cannot hold two versions in it, so bricking is definitely possible.

Much harder on the newer bikes, but harder doesn't mean impossible.

-Crissa

[travbee]

So this being a 21 I'd think it shouldn't be likely to brick... Did you cl zero? Something feels off.

[T.S. Zarathustra]

I am not familiar with the Zero board, but flashing boards is large part of my job, I don't remember ever coming across a board/part that cannot be put in download mode by simple procedure during power-on. Usually holding a button, or inserting a jumper, even shorting traces with a temporary solder bridge. Then you can install either the firmware, or a bootable version of firmware, and then proceed to install the latest version using standard software tools.
Now. If the board uses USB connection, Windows really likes to play games with you. If the manufacturers driver is not signed by Microsoft, at the cost of some thousands of dollars, the latest Windows (7 is usually okay, 8 is bad, 10 is awful) will blatantly lie to you, and tell you that the driver is not compatible or even broken. Unless you have enough IT (or Google) knowledge to force a way around this issue, you will simply not get it to work.

[Auriga]

All of the modern MBBs and BMses have two banks with room for two copies of the firmware

This could be as simple as a random hardware failure or an edge case bootloader bug. Interrupting a FW update happens somewhat often, and the bike has usually recovered after a few minutes delay.

I've had one or two MBBs or BMSes brick while trying to update over the last couple years, but they were typically a few years old.

If the device bootloader gets or is corrupted, we don't have the tools to reflash it, so we have to replace it. I think we'd need JTAG or similiar to do that.

[Artemis]

Hi everyone,

Sorry for reporting back this late. I got my bike back on June 5th, roughly 3 weeks after I brought it in. In hindsight, I don't think there's any reason to blame my dealer, maybe I was even lucky this error appeared while the bike was at the shop.
My dealer showed me a video of the erroneous behavior; he turns on the bike, it starts up, and after a few seconds shuts down again. When I checked the logs later, all I saw was many occurrences of:

>> Turning OFF DCDC. Flags: 0x01   
>> Entering Critical Error Shutdown

It took them a long time to find the source of this behavior, and apparently they finally found a faulty connector to the battery with a bent or otherwise deformed pin. I have to assume this was a manufacturing flaw, even though I never had problems before. I also don't see how this could in any way be connected to the update he tried to install, which was rejected and afterwards the error showed up.

Be it as it may, they fixed the faulty connector, under warranty of course, and the error went away. Everything seems to be fine now, and maybe I was very lucky my bike never decided to just shut down while riding before.

[Crissa]

Faulty connectors can work 'for awhile' but the poor connection eventually rears its head as the contacts age.

Also, updates can be more vigorous about checking sensors, or apply different tolerances to the sensor channel or sampling, which can create a different result.

-Crissa