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Author Topic: 2023 LiveWire S2 Del Mar preview  (Read 1555 times)

JaimeC

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Re: 2023 LiveWire S2 Del Mar preview
« Reply #15 on: May 12, 2022, 06:26:41 PM »

Just thought of something... with all this talk of the Del Mar... whatever happened to the Sondors Metacycle?  Did they ever start shipping those things?  I haven't seen any posts from new owners... almost as if they just dropped off the map...
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Richard230

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Re: 2023 LiveWire S2 Del Mar preview
« Reply #16 on: May 12, 2022, 07:44:33 PM »

Just thought of something... with all this talk of the Del Mar... whatever happened to the Sondors Metacycle?  Did they ever start shipping those things?  I haven't seen any posts from new owners... almost as if they just dropped off the map...

I don't know anything about Sondors, but it does seem to me as if most electric motorcycle startups that come out with a concept bike and big marketing plans are initially trolling for investors and when they don't get enough funding to actually set up a manufacturing plant, distribution network, and all of the other expensive and time-consuming things you need in this age to market a vehicle, they apparently just fold up and disappear.

Just take a look at the brand sub-forums on this site that are no longer with us. And those are the old ones, lots of new brands have popped up during the last few years, never to be heard from again. I hear that even Rivan trucks, which seemed to be well funded are now on the rocks.  ??? 

It is a tough life out there for the little guy with no vehicle manufacturing experience, an established retail distribution network and really deep pockets, like H-D. Note that the big Japanese brands are still not willing to jump into the electric motorcycle market with anything more than low-power city bike concepts, which are not much more than mopeds. You need to make money to stay in business and it seems to me that the consumer, for a variety of reasons (mostly due to cost and range) is just not willing to give up ICE motorcycles and embrace electric power as a mode of transportation, as is slowly happening with private automobiles.
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Richard's motorcycle collection:  2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2020 KTM 390 Duke, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

wavelet

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Re: 2023 LiveWire S2 Del Mar preview
« Reply #17 on: May 12, 2022, 09:01:48 PM »

Just thought of something... with all this talk of the Del Mar... whatever happened to the Sondors Metacycle?  Did they ever start shipping those things?  I haven't seen any posts from new owners... almost as if they just dropped off the map...

I don't know anything about Sondors, but it does seem to me as if most electric motorcycle startups that come out with a concept bike and big marketing plans are initially trolling for investors and when they don't get enough funding to actually set up a manufacturing plant, distribution network, and all of the other expensive and time-consuming things you need in this age to market a vehicle, they apparently just fold up and disappear.

Just take a look at the brand sub-forums on this site that are no longer with us. And those are the old ones, lots of new brands have popped up during the last few years, never to be heard from again. I hear that even Rivan trucks, which seemed to be well funded are now on the rocks.  ??? 

It is a tough life out there for the little guy with no vehicle manufacturing experience, an established retail distribution network and really deep pockets, like H-D. Note that the big Japanese brands are still not willing to jump into the electric motorcycle market with anything more than low-power city bike concepts, which are not much more than mopeds.
They are mopeds, not in the literal sense of having pedals, but they're equivalent to 50cc scooters in acceleration & speed (top and cruising). A bit less range, though still fine for the purpose. This is really the only category where BEV 2-wheelers are already cost-effective, and as a result millions are sold per year in Asia... Also because many cities have banned 2-stroke or small ICEV scooters.
I thought the next category, 125cc-equivalent, examples of which started showing up 2-3 years ago, would establish itself quickly -- those can handle highway stretches at 70+ mph, and have a lot more range (80-100mi), so can be used for  suburban commuting safely with cars. However, no signs it's happening.
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You need to make money to stay in business and it seems to me that the consumer, for a variety of reasons (mostly due to cost and range) is just not willing to give up ICE motorcycles and embrace electric power as a mode of transportation, as is slowly happening with private automobiles.
The only way to do this would be via regulation. Subsidize BEV scooters and/or make ICEV ones illegal that aren't full-on motorcycles.
As for large motorcycles -- range is simply insufficient for any type of day trip or touring. That requires 3x the battery of current state-of-the-art models, with no increase whatsoever in weight or price. I don't see that anytime soon.
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Fran K

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Re: 2023 LiveWire S2 Del Mar preview
« Reply #18 on: May 12, 2022, 09:21:17 PM »

I wonder what sort of traction control it has?

I also wonder how much more power it is capible of with modifications?

It isn't really clear what the modules are in the modular construction.  I had a 2000 F150 with a modular engine and the modular business was in the equipment at the factory to make the various choices.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2022, 09:23:22 PM by Fran K »
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Richard230

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Re: 2023 LiveWire S2 Del Mar preview
« Reply #19 on: May 13, 2022, 12:03:01 AM »

Speaking of startups: there was a disturbing article printed my my newspaper today, published by the New York Times, written by Erin Griffith and titled " Fear and loathing return to tech startups". What it claims is that that investors are bailing out of funding startups as they believe that there is no future for them this year, due to inflation, rising interest rates and the war in Ukraine. While it is just a general statement about small startup companies and there is no mention of EV startups, I imagine that this trend in not good news for the introduction and manufacturing of new electric motorcycles.
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Richard's motorcycle collection:  2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2020 KTM 390 Duke, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

Richard230

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Re: 2023 LiveWire S2 Del Mar preview
« Reply #20 on: May 15, 2022, 03:39:55 AM »

Here is Revzilla's take on the new LiveWire S2 Del Mar model: https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/2023-livewire-s2-del-mar-le-first-look
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Richard's motorcycle collection:  2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2020 KTM 390 Duke, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

wavelet

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Re: 2023 LiveWire S2 Del Mar preview
« Reply #21 on: May 15, 2022, 06:29:19 AM »

Here is Revzilla's take on the new LiveWire S2 Del Mar model: https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/2023-livewire-s2-del-mar-le-first-look
Basically, the same bullshit as every "article" by a wannabee journalist calling it a "pre-sale".
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