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[Auriga]

There's also those little lights on the BMS and the reset button. You might investigate those as well: https://zeromanual.com/wiki/BMS_Reset_Procedure

So this post is interesting because:

The dealer finally got around to looking at my FXS in conjunction with a tech at Zero (I guess they can look at the bike logs remotely) and they have come to the conclusion that the BMS board on my bike is bad and needs to be replaced.   

Do you know if the BMS is in the battery module itself on the modular FX/FXS?    The link above would lead me to believe that it is in the battery module.  Is the board that is in the battery a secondary BMS and there is a main BMS on the bike?   

BMS stands for Battery Management System and every Zero battery has one. If you have a modular FX, you have two batteries and one BMS per battery. If you have an integrated FX, with one battery, you have one. There are no BMSes outside of a battery.

It sounds like they found that the module voltage was still in a good range, and that the BMS had failed, preventing it from being used.

[mdjak1]

There's also those little lights on the BMS and the reset button. You might investigate those as well: https://zeromanual.com/wiki/BMS_Reset_Procedure

So this post is interesting because:

The dealer finally got around to looking at my FXS in conjunction with a tech at Zero (I guess they can look at the bike logs remotely) and they have come to the conclusion that the BMS board on my bike is bad and needs to be replaced.   

Do you know if the BMS is in the battery module itself on the modular FX/FXS?    The link above would lead me to believe that it is in the battery module.  Is the board that is in the battery a secondary BMS and there is a main BMS on the bike?   

BMS stands for Battery Management System and every Zero battery has one. If you have a modular FX, you have two batteries and one BMS per battery. If you have an integrated FX, with one battery, you have one. There are no BMSes outside of a battery.

It sounds like they found that the module voltage was still in a good range, and that the BMS had failed, preventing it from being used.

My bike is modular. 

This is what I thought.   So the dealer says the BMS is going to be replaced.   I thought that the BMS inside the battery wasn't dealer replaceable.  The parts diagram doesn't show it as an available part.   That is why I figured that they would have to replace the entire battery. 

[Auriga]

There's also those little lights on the BMS and the reset button. You might investigate those as well: https://zeromanual.com/wiki/BMS_Reset_Procedure

So this post is interesting because:

The dealer finally got around to looking at my FXS in conjunction with a tech at Zero (I guess they can look at the bike logs remotely) and they have come to the conclusion that the BMS board on my bike is bad and needs to be replaced.   

Do you know if the BMS is in the battery module itself on the modular FX/FXS?    The link above would lead me to believe that it is in the battery module.  Is the board that is in the battery a secondary BMS and there is a main BMS on the bike?   

BMS stands for Battery Management System and every Zero battery has one. If you have a modular FX, you have two batteries and one BMS per battery. If you have an integrated FX, with one battery, you have one. There are no BMSes outside of a battery.

It sounds like they found that the module voltage was still in a good range, and that the BMS had failed, preventing it from being used.

My bike is modular. 

This is what I thought.   So the dealer says the BMS is going to be replaced.   I thought that the BMS inside the battery wasn't dealer replaceable.  The parts diagram doesn't show it as an available part.   That is why I figured that they would have to replace the entire battery. 

I don't know about the parts diagram you're looking at, but BMSes are designed to be replaced by dealers and are definitely marked as such inthe dealer parts/service manual

[mdjak1]

I don't know about the parts diagram you're looking at, but BMSes are designed to be replaced by dealers and are definitely marked as such inthe dealer parts/service manual

PDF Parts diagram through AF1 Racing:

https://www.af1racing.com/2014-2020-FX-FXS-Spare-Parts-Catalogs

It does show the BMS module cover but not the BMS itself. 


EDIT:   The 2017 diagram shows the BMS cover twice.   Whereas the 2019 diagram shows the BMS cover and the BMS.   So I guess Zero changed their process on the BMS replacement.

[NEW2elec]

The BMS is in the battery.  So it looks like you'll get at least one new battery.

[mdjak1]

The BMS is in the battery.  So it looks like you'll get at least one new battery.

See above edit.   It looks like Zero does offer the BMS as a spare part.   Looking at the 2016, 2018 and 2019 FXS parts diagram they all show part number 40-08031.   But the 2017 parts diagram (what I was looking at since my bike is a 2017) doesn't show that part.  Instead, the parts diagram shows the BMS cover (46-08110) twice.  Not sure why or if this is just an error in the parts diagram?

[Auriga]

The BMS is in the battery.  So it looks like you'll get at least one new battery.

Yeah no, BMS replacement has been distinct from battery replacement all the way back to the first modular bike. So those parts diagrams are either wrong or inaccurate. Either way, he's not getting a new battery unless they say so.

[mdjak1]

Yeah no, BMS replacement has been distinct from battery replacement all the way back to the first modular bike. So those parts diagrams are either wrong or inaccurate. Either way, he's not getting a new battery unless they say so.

While getting a new battery would be nice since it would probably be a little larger, as long as the old one has proper capacity I would be OK with it.   I assume that once the dealer installs a new BMS in the module, they will verify the capacity.   I know I will check it once I get it back from nearly empty to full with a kWh meter.  IIRC the single working battery took about 2.4 kWh from empty to full.   

[ELEC_CRAZY]

Hi
I have FX 2015 (without ABS) version, something like that happen to me too, the "bad" battery wont do any thing when pressing
the reset not Hard and not soft reset,as my only way of transport & without any dealer at my country for over a year i had to do something, i disassemble the plastic cover and take out for few sec the black connection to the BMS, and the battery came to live, after few weeks had to put something to make the cover force little bit the black connector in, no problem seens then..
Hope it will help you..


Edit: I think its the white connector.. don't remember

[mdjak1]

Hi
I have FX 2015 (without ABS) version, something like that happen to me too, the "bad" battery wont do any thing when pressing
the reset not Hard and not soft reset,as my only way of transport & without any dealer at my country for over a year i had to do something, i disassemble the plastic cover and take out for few sec the black connection to the BMS, and the battery came to live, after few weeks had to put something to make the cover force little bit the black connector in, no problem seens then..
Hope it will help you..


Edit: I think its the white connector.. don't remember

I assume if all that was required to get the module working again was just to plug the BMS in a little firmer, then the mechanic would have done that.   Instead, they got Zero on the phone (and online I think) to look at the log info.   They somehow determined that the BMS on one module was bad but the battery itself was good.   Assuming that the dealer didn't have a spare BMS board sitting around to verify that conclusion, I assume that they may have taken the BMS board from the good/working module and swapped it into the non-working module?

Otherwise, maybe they were able to measure the battery condition in some other manner? 

[ELEC_CRAZY]

I haven't seen Dealer that disassemble the battery, from my experience (not in the USA) they do "clean work", that mean they avoid try to fix part and go for replace with new, its make sens for safety but its not always needed. 

[mdjak1]

I haven't seen Dealer that disassemble the battery, from my experience (not in the USA) they do "clean work", that mean they avoid try to fix part and go for replace with new, its make sens for safety but its not always needed.

Well the BMS is a part that can be ordered from Zero according to all the parts diagrams (except the 2017 FXS diagram), so if it can be ordered, it should be a replaceable part by a dealer.   Better for Zero than having to replace an entire battery under warranty. 

[mdjak1]

So I finally got my 2017 FXS 6.5 Modular back this past week.   Only after getting Zero to push the dealer along did it finally get looked at, BMS issue found, part ordered and finally installed.   7 weeks total.   The dealer took about 4 weeks before they finally looked at it.  The BMS was ordered and after a week I emailed Zero to ask if the BMS was shipped.  They immediately replied and shipped the BMS to the dealer by UPS Red.   Dealer then took 2 weeks to install the part.  I've learned that if that dealer tells you they are 3 to 4 weeks out but to bring the bike in right away because they might fit it in, get a solid appointment and bring it in on the day of the appointment.   Or perhaps use a different dealer.

This weekend I had the chance to take it out for a longer ride.  I did a little riding during the week so I'm not sure how many miles I put on it.   But it took about 8 hours to recharge and the two batteries took 5.15 kWh per my Kill-A-Watt meter.  I guess that is about a 10% loss from nominal 5.7 capacity. 
I also noticed while charging one battery was a bit warmer than the other.   My infrared thermometer showed 105 deg F on one battery and 100 deg F on another.   The Dell XPS 13 computer that I use also charges at about 100 deg F too.   So I guess I'm not too surprised, just curious why one battery is warmer than the other.   

The last thing I've noticed is that the BMS logs started with the date 12/31/1969.  I am guessing that there is something the dealer didn't do when installing/initializing the BMS.   Not sure if it is important or not though. 

I am happy that both batteries are now working thanks to the help of the people at Zero and the Zero warranty that covered the BMS. 

[Crissa]

That means the internal clock was set to zero.

Not sure where it gets its time, tho.

-Crissa

[mdjak1]

Sent the logs to Zero and they say their log reader shows the correct date.   Who knows??   Anyway, they also say they didn't see any errors in the logs with the bike.  Below are the last 15 or so lines in the BMS log showing the 01/10/1970 date.    Apparently my bike has gone back in time.   

01359     01/10/1970 00:40:32   Discharge level            001 AH, SOC: 94%, I: -2A, L:4069, l:4060, H:4073, B:004, PT:039C, BT:054C, PV:113997, M:Charge
 01360     01/10/1970 00:40:32   SOC:1341,21706,1408,26000,95,94,94,-5
 01361     01/10/1970 00:50:32   Discharge level            000 AH, SOC: 96%, I: -2A, L:4089, l:4080, H:4093, B:004, PT:039C, BT:054C, PV:114566, M:Charge
 01362     01/10/1970 00:50:32   SOC:894,21736,945,26000,97,96,96,-5
 01363     01/10/1970 01:22:46   SOC adjusted for voltage   old:   31uAH (soc:100%), new:   0uAH (soc:100%), low cell: 4145 mV
 01364     01/10/1970 01:32:54   DEBUG: CAN Link Is Down
 01365     01/10/1970 01:32:58   Contactor was Opened       Pack V: 115693mV, Switched V: 115672mV, Prechg Pct: 100%, Dischg Cur: 83mA
 01366     01/10/1970 01:32:58   DEBUG: CAN Link Is Up
 01367     01/10/1970 01:33:03   DEBUG: CAN NOT Receiving Syncs
 01368     01/10/1970 01:33:28   Voltage Across Contactor: 42211mV (Okay)
 01369     01/10/1970 01:54:38   DEBUG: CAN Receiving Syncs
 01370     01/10/1970 01:54:38   Contactor drive turned on  Pack V: 115687mV, Switched V: 102400mV, Duty Cycle: 34%
 01371     01/10/1970 01:54:38   Contactor was Closed       Pack V: 115687mV, Switched V: 102400mV, Prechg Pct: 89%, Dischg Cur: 747mA
 01372     01/10/1970 01:54:47   ERROR: 2/1422000 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 2, (crc,timeout)- 1=(0,0) 2=(0,0) 3=(0,0) 4=(0,0) 5=(0,0)
 01373     01/10/1970 01:57:57   SOC adjusted for voltage   old:   28uAH (soc:100%), new:   0uAH (soc:100%), low cell: 4142 mV