ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Crissa on January 29, 2020, 10:58:08 AM
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Does anyone know the details of how the EV surcharge is going to work this year?
I can't find any good articles on it, but it sounds like an additional $100 to registration... Is that to the 'new' registration or is it to the renewal (which are slightly different fee?
In California, that's equal to buying over 200 gallons of gasoline. Which is like, driving my car 6K miles, let alone a motorcycle.
-Crissa
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$100 is nothing. Here in Georgia it's $212.78 per year, and I'm paying for that with my Tesla. I'm not sure if I'm going to need to pay the same for my Energia.
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$200/$0.31 per gal=645 gallons of gasoline. That's 20K miles in my car!
That's insane. Someone should sue the state, claiming no prudent interest in this tax. Laws have to have a reason and apply equally, not just be punitive.
-Crissa
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North Carolina used to have the EV tax on electric motorcycles but has since stopped. I paid it for several years on my Zero but it stopped a few years ago. I am paying it on my Tesla though!
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What I read in my newspaper a few years ago when the delayed additional "road tax" was passed is that electric vehicles would be charged an additional $100 registration fee, on top of the original price-based fee, both when first registered and each year thereafter when the vehicle's registration was renewed. Needless to say that electric motorcycles have never been mentioned in any article or news report regarding the new fee, only that rich people owning Teslas deserved to be taxed more than they were to help pay for road maintenance. (And how are your potholes doing today? ::) )
Frankly, I am not even sure if the California state legislators even are aware that electric motorcycle exist. :( They ought to be giving us a free ride since they are always complaining about loud motorcycles (saving lives) and we have solved that problem. ;)
I renewed my Zero's registration last November, so I will not be the first person to verify if electric motorcycle owners get screwed with this new registration road tax fee this year.
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$100 is nothing. Here in Georgia it's $212.78 per year, and I'm paying for that with my Tesla. I'm not sure if I'm going to need to pay the same for my Energia.
Yep you sure will. I had to pay it on both of my Zeros. I wrote my Senator and he agreed it should be different for cars and motorcycles but nothing changed. I think I sent him a break down that showed i would have paid about $36 in gas tax for the miles I rode for a bike that size.
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Yep you sure will. I had to pay it on both of my Zeros. I wrote my Senator and he agreed it should be different for cars and motorcycles but nothing changed. I think I sent him a break down that showed i would have paid about $36 in gas tax for the miles I rode for a bike that size.
You sure are the bearer of bad news! I hope this gets some attention soon, it should be at most 1/5 of the standard EV cost IMO.
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I wrote my Senator and he agreed it should be different for cars and motorcycles...
By that logic, all motorcycles should get almost all their gasoline tax back because we cause essentially no wear and tear to the road surfaces. It's a high-order function of axle loading, so it's like 80% caused by semis, 20% by cars (though there are far more cars on the road), and pretty much none by motorcycles.
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Well, I guess we won't find out until March when people start getting their registrations... They're supposed to start charging it in July.
But I just paid $226 for my Mazda and $192 for my Zero. Will I really spend more on my Zero next year?
-Crissa
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Yep you sure will. I had to pay it on both of my Zeros. I wrote my Senator and he agreed it should be different for cars and motorcycles but nothing changed. I think I sent him a break down that showed i would have paid about $36 in gas tax for the miles I rode for a bike that size.
You sure are the bearer of bad news! I hope this gets some attention soon, it should be at most 1/5 of the standard EV cost IMO.
Sorry about that, but you asked. :)
Yeah GA did a 180 from giving a 20% EV tax credit to a $200 FU.
Doug I guess the real road damage is from the tanker truck that brought the gas to the station in the first place.
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$200/$0.31 per gal=645 gallons of gasoline. That's 20K miles in my car!
That's insane. Someone should sue the state, claiming no prudent interest in this tax. Laws have to have a reason and apply equally, not just be punitive.
-Crissa
Where are you buying gas for $0.31?
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Where are you buying gas for $0.31?
Georgia has a 31¢ per gallon gas tax that this EV fee is supposed to replace.
-Crissa
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> Does anyone know the details of how the EV surcharge is going to work this year?
According to this, it's a $100 fee per EV in California, starting in January 2021.
https://www.myev.com/research/interesting-finds/states-that-charge-extra-fees-to-own-an-electric-vehicle
It's crazy that a 100 Wh/mile Zero should pay the same as an electric Hummer.
Surely the road-wear of the Hummer is 10X.
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> Does anyone know the details of how the EV surcharge is going to work this year?
According to this, it's a $100 fee per EV in California, starting in January 2021.
https://www.myev.com/research/interesting-finds/states-that-charge-extra-fees-to-own-an-electric-vehicle
It's crazy that a 100 Wh/mile Zero should pay the same as an electric Hummer.
Surely the road-wear of the Hummer is 10X.
Just another example of our state legislators having no interest in, or being aware of electric motorcycles. We don't make the news. What they hear all of the time is about rich Tesla owners who (they believe) wouldn't mind paying another $100 each year when registering their vehicles. So it is likely that our bikes just got swept up in the rush to tax Tesla owners. :(
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Here is the link to the bill text: https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=201720180SB1 (https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=201720180SB1)
bill itself says:"a new $100 annual vehicle registration fee applicable only to zero-emission vehicles model year 2020 and later, with an inflation adjustment, as provided"
So almost none of us should be paying the extra fee until we upgrade to a post-2020 model!
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Here is the link to the bill...
I couldn't find the specific bill. Thank you!
It still stinks that a motorcycle might have the same surcharge as truck, though. Or less than a gasoline vehicle.
-Crissa
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I agree. Trying not to sound whiny, but it seems pretty steep. I am working with my local assembly member to amend the legislation to index the reg fee to battery capacity. $2/kWh makes way more sense than a flat $100.
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Here is the link to the bill text: https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=201720180SB1 (https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=201720180SB1)
bill itself says:"a new $100 annual vehicle registration fee applicable only to zero-emission vehicles model year 2020 and later, with an inflation adjustment, as provided"
So almost none of us should be paying the extra fee until we upgrade to a post-2020 model!
Well, that is good news for me. Previous news reports on TV and the radio seem to have been confusingly presented. They would leave out the word "model" and implied that the fee would be applicable to all EVs starting in 2020. Not surprising I guess, considering how much effort some reporters put into their research into the news stories that they report lately. :(
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I would pin the charge to rated Wh/mi, that way we continue to encourage efficiency and also lighter vehicles are already more efficient, so we wouldn't also have to classify for weight (although we could).
-Crissa
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I don’t remember seeing wh/mi as a rating on the zero site, do they claim such a number? It honestly may be too technical to put into legislation. Maybe not, who knows. Capacity is a much more visible number though, but I don’t know why weight would factor into reg cost.
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I don’t remember seeing wh/mi as a rating on the zero site, do they claim such a number? It honestly may be too technical to put into legislation. Maybe not, who knows. Capacity is a much more visible number though, but I don’t know why weight would factor into reg cost.
Since the surcharge is supposed to go toward road maintenance, you could argue that weight has an affect on road degeneration. However, in California the yearly vehicle registration cost is based upon the original purchase price of the vehicle, less 10% for each year of ownership. As you can see, the state legislature prefers to deal in $$$ rather than a more rational and fair solution to establishing a road tax.
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No need for Wh/mile, just go by the MPGe given by the manufacturer.
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I don’t remember seeing wh/mi as a rating on the zero site, do they claim such a number? It honestly may be too technical to put into legislation. Maybe not, who knows. Capacity is a much more visible number though, but I don’t know why weight would factor into reg cost.
Since the surcharge is supposed to go toward road maintenance, you could argue that weight has an affect on road degeneration. However, in California the yearly vehicle registration cost is based upon the original purchase price of the vehicle, less 10% for each year of ownership. As you can see, the state legislature prefers to deal in $$$ rather than a more rational and fair solution to establishing a road tax.
Yes, tying to weight and miles traveled makes the most sense for the intended purpose. For fossil fuel vehicles, per gallon is a reasonable approximation.
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No need for Wh/mile, just go by the MPGe given by the manufacturer.
We can't keep defining electric vehicles in terms of fossil fuel equivalents. We need to break free.
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No need for Wh/mile, just go by the MPGe given by the manufacturer.
We can't keep defining electric vehicles in terms of fossil fuel equivalents. We need to break free.
Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
Until ICEs are no longer on the roads it is the logical way to do it.
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Nah, better to get fossil fuelers in the habit of defining their energy use in terms of the more fungible commodity, kwh.
Or you could use the dominant paradigm, define every EV in terms of the car that is still to be bested by others, the 2013 Tesla Model S.
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All of the "road" taxes shouldn't exist in the first place.
Of all the things that should be accepted as a universal need for all citizens it's roads. Because, hey some people don't get sick.
Hello general tax fund meet necessity. Even if a person has never driven a car or even had a license they still depend on roads.
Did you eat today? Do you know how that food got to you? It was a road.
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...And that truck paid a larger price to use the road because it weighs more and emits more pollution. Encouraging fewer truck trips and identifying where trucks travel for road repairs.
Roads cannot be free to commercial travel because that would make other forms of transport even less competitive. We already underprice road use.
-Crissa
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All of the "road" taxes shouldn't exist in the first place.
Of all the things that should be accepted as a universal need for all citizens it's roads. Because, hey some people don't get sick.
Hello general tax fund meet necessity. Even if a person has never driven a car or even had a license they still depend on roads.
Did you eat today? Do you know how that food got to you? It was a road.
The people that directly use the roads rely on them more. The vehicles that use the road for the people that don't drive or ride, such as the food delivery truck, have already had their tax paid by someone or some company. Here in the UK the only vehicles that don't pay the tax are those used for public non-profit services like police, emergency medical response, fire trucks, some road maintenance machinery, grit spreaders and snow plows, etc.
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The trucking company isn't paying the gas tax. You are. When you tax a business they pass that cost, that lack of profit, on to the customers.
If the market won't support the higher cost the company goes out of business. Of course then there is no tax money at all from them.
The point is there in a general tax fund in every budget and it is supposedly there to cover the needs that most everyone has. When they add on more and more special taxes for different things how much of the general fund goes in their pockets?
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If the trucking company didn't pay it, there would be less impetus to use lighter trucks, more efficient trucks.
And we would pay more from the general fund for road repairs that weren't strictly necessary.
And rails and other methods of transport would be even more at a disadvantage.
Fuel and use taxes should be higher. Bicycles don't pay because they do nearly no damage. Nearly no emissions, nearly no weight, nearly no congestion. They are the most efficient use of our roads, and our pricing structure should encourage it. (Motorcycles are also very efficient and should pay much less than cars).
It's about pricing efficiency of a limited resource (road space).
-Crissa