ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: Zelidar on December 02, 2019, 09:32:05 PM
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Since I couldn't bear having technological reliques from last century - whatever proven they were or still are - on my fancy brand new SR/F from the future, I ordered and mounted two pairs of LED boards from Weiser (EXT-IND-G001) over the weekend.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/XniN2EHp1r4JfsGs9xifdu2X7PyChGRgZ_zKwu1ZEBaHYIMGJh5RM17QR2MKSHGUdpIo9dcWsdG3-xtNdn9aLMS-bYHswhE-w0YL1WstudXrfSz4QdeDR0jzfp559BYx_HpPwHol7gTceNPU1M3gI2WZO37JqbtDecpRsD4VRc15WnT62EwgsYW07IVWxz-AyiKEtht3U74WmqIrNkMX5AVJl8YpufH1soVA3Mw0mHpTwcx2-5PH_N9d35_VEWaULgj1sXRcul5f06DElZXBEK63nVyfpm8inEBp7haMRGNL22DBrDMpa5_NHjLHExd0QqCTcOW9Blwv9Jg3jDBnISp_G4OIC1lJIQF0BztFpVG0TfRdtJ_VBy__wVitkqTvqLGJGOMG5_GQX8ogi3fK0HbXZ1BAYrhioULlVEXHWaU2MIgirjOWV25fsgIsuFoCqBRvbvWPnjbqQbVxLg5hMGZJWW_V8ajIxb2eN_J9_kh0zX5w5F-JP_EuSRkfFUX-75kJgIMQvhtsyLnHls31CGVAIMadsEUwzyrvh06eUKi83TI-13SEI-rw1F0qBJQpFaciAKtjDpz_4PlQkTpazlRjw7zc9K5_rSh0NpQddpSXAzIGlL8eUDBdC0SMoQaYGXEu0Hd_r8pZayTEPA9U3vVUUUovMKBhaZIp1vUcOiMiTVgGEfj2-pW6xPr7SyEwXiBbq1b7UE-9r255vV9rpwhOE8gjLllnc1Hn-q9HdoQX3G9fmQ=w972-h437-no)
Everything went nice and easy except that the main reason that brought me to choose this rather expensive brand (Weiser website: "Although they work on a lower current than standard bulbs, they will not show a bulb failure warning on the dash.") failed because after 5 to 30 seconds I exactly got those dreadful "Error 19: Blinker Bulb Out Fault" on my display along with hyper flashing.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/h_rEg6Oj6cNnLfm_BIyiLYuFApe7gnlrKhTyX9nsffHWZ7W7AK05JSpOPYkW8Cvh9ZpplO1ilXBsI5RnanQ8vSOE_9z5Q1wzKi9E7_CBTfoeEMoE5F3jJh22_N9wCSnqfvX8HMkbuSE_Jl8RhnofoB_1Sb5piW5NwmdGBZNz_AxPbdtiKlBRfo0-U3BdEESeLrr4-8504sWRREw-b_7umELytDDdxUnvkT8bho-Cso4VkwEYB_wjP54YpKKIE4hYCV1WQzs3p6d2G0GkpxGFEKK1YpaQAnKX0RvoUdci1xWcoePWkIjDo2Yhyoh6EX0X0C20Icfnpa_AN_iwjNjDMnimzSIaGG3jnqjqnKvPUBLEpmru3RkhgkyLAp_kqkWlLc9HIoLO5Laa8tV0U5lFYSWi9Cx5ElEMH0LJFWMF55q8K_oCHuQxKkOHUVn5Q2dgEOGdakrh5ItzYH7HSu0BOS5k5dJDLpw_wyhMaN_txzR6dx2VHtp2j1onAM9w4grCrBF20TlBPx07ikdrLsdyPA3Gb7w-oynXC1SBDto_2Rwx0FYF7wtCDMWemCCeuORQ3BnwwmdGY18RyG5Ow8pyrlESzLzMw3l1IUhU1yHsGh8sTKHa63OYL3-6-anxtKvJpx6lj6UXxGqviY_Zla1kfjX-0oDK0tTZjdpQvdDtcSEX1AA0JfbCeF2zEgzTf74qTP2HZtusmNv56PTTZIMmn08t8L3QGXGW04I8eXOGew4C59qGtg=w719-h447-no)
I opened a support ticket and almost immediately got a response from Mark Atkins, the CEO of Weiser Technik:
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Thank you for your email and we are sorry for the problem you are having with our LED turn signals on your bike.
Until recently, all Weiser LED lighting products worked with all Zero motorcycle models (and other manufacturers bikes) without causing a bulb failure code. With the introduction of the SR/F model, Zero's electronics changed the way that bulb failures were detected and we have recently started to get reports from customers of intermittent problems (hyper flashing & fault codes etc.) when our lights are installed on the SR/F. The error codes go away and come back sometimes with changes in external ambient temperature.
We have worked with Zero to determine the cause of this and are now in the process of modifying our products to eliminate the problem. In technical terms, our lights operate with a lower current than a standard 10W bulb at 13.5V so we are changing the ballast resistors on the product to allow the lights to draw a slightly higher current. This will solve the issue that you are seeing. We tested prototypes of the change on a brand new Zero.
​
We are seriously committed to the development of Weiser products and our customer's satisfaction. We will make available the new production versions free of charge to all purchasers of our lights in the near future.
We appreciate the issue has caused dissatisfaction but the problem was outside of our expectations. A solution has been found and is being implemented.
​
Please feel free to post this response and any Zero SR/F owner should email me at mark.atkins@weisertechnik.com with their details of the purchase and we will ship updated products as soon as it is available.
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Being myself active in the engineering and tech industry for decades I can relate to his explanation and I understand it.
Since I was worry to use these fancy and expensive electronic boards without any form of waterproofing in the often rainy Swiss weather I have used some light adhesive to somehow seal the plastic lens to the black body. That apparently was not necessary.
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The LED panels are conformally coated during manufacture to repel moisture and are guaranteed for 4 years. It is not necessary to use an adhesive on the lens to keep moisture out. You will note on the bottom edge of each housing there is a small hole in the black port of the housing; this is there to allow air into the housing which helps dissipate moisture after fogging in wet or damp weather. We have never advised or heard of anyone using adhesives before to refit the lens after installation of our LED indicators. They are designed to be reliable without any modification to the housings.
The product you purchased is basically the same product fitted reliably to thousands of BMW KTM and other brands for over 12 years. This is the first time we have encountered a motorcycle model with different electronic sensitivities at odds with the rest of the market place. It was not foreseen.
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The outcome I draw from this incident is that Weiser (impersonated for me by its CEO) does care about having satisfied customers. Before ordering yours, you probably should verify with them first, or wait until the compliance with the SR/F becomes explicitly labeled on their website.
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Question about the installation: how much time for someone with modest technical skills? How idiot proof are the instructions?
Thanks
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How much time for someone with modest technical skills? How idiot proof are the instructions?
A couple of minutes, maybe 15 in total to replace all four. Unlike what it replaces, the polarity of the current matters for LED, but if one gets it wrong it simply won't lit without causing any damage.
There is one guy who posted a video about the conversion he as done on his Zero DS.
https://youtu.be/P-XqQAjqWik
and Weiser has its own YouTube channel
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-YCnK1c7h6bbHHao0S4M5g
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Is Weiser taking back the lights they're doing warrantee replacement on? ^-^
-Crissa
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Is Weiser taking back the lights they're doing warranty replacement on? ^-^
I was told I would be sent new ones, free of charge, of the revised version as soon as they would be available in production (2 to 4 weeks, so still 2019). He didn't write anything about the ones I already have.
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I replaced all 4 on my bike at the end of September. Got them at AF1
All was good for almost 2 months: it did not start with the hyper flashing until it got cold here in North Carolina (maybe just a coincidence) but now it does it often and of course, it throws the familiar error 19 every time.
I will forward purchase receipts to the email provided by Weiser and wait and see.
Adding a resistor of the required value to these lights should present a bigger "load" to the circuit they are on, which in turn, is very likely to resolve the problem.
I was going to experiment with this but since Weiser has plans to replace them, I will not spend my time on it.
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Since I was worry to use these fancy and expensive electronic boards without any form of waterproofing in the often rainy Swiss weather I have used some light adhesive to somehow seal the plastic lens to the black body. That apparently was not necessary.
When I installed these on the rear of my 16 DSR I was very concerned when I saw how much dirt/dust had made its way to the inside of the lens.
I sealed up the hole were the wires come into the pod as I didn't want a way for air to flow into the pod (bringing salt/dirt with it).
I also sealed the lens/pod seam.
I first applied two strips of masking tape (one on pod & the other on the lens), then applied a thin strip of black silicone being carful not to obstruct the drain port
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All was good for almost 2 months: it did not start with the hyper flashing until it got cold here in North Carolina (maybe just a coincidence) but now it does it often and of course, it throws the familiar error 19 every time.
With my short experience, yours much longer, and the reply I got from Weiser I don't think it is a coincidence. All those who bought and mounted them in the warmer months didn't experience the problem as strongly or as often (if at all!) as it became evident nowaday with much lower temperatures. Those SR/F in winter storage, should they have Weiser LED turn signals mounted, might never need the newer version if only used in summer. The other case are buyers in Southern California or Florida, same favorable situation with regard to operating temperatures.
I will forward purchase receipts to the email provided by Weiser and wait and see. ... I was going to experiment with this but since Weiser has plans to replace them, I will not spend my time on it.
There was an error in the email he gave me which I hoped I have fixed, if it bounces then just use the contact form on their website as I did.
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When I installed these on the rear of my 16 DSR I was very concerned when I saw how much dirt/dust had made its way to the inside of the lens.
...
What you did is what I should have done, a better and cleaner job than using glue. When the new ones come I might just follow in your steps. Thanks for sharing your experience.
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Hi everyone,
I'm French so excuse my English please.
I just sold my Dsr '18 and i ordered a Sr/f with will arrive on the 3rd july (but i I will not be able to drive it until the 9 july for a question of licence driving).
I want to change the original blinker for a pair of Led, like on my Dsr https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57M-M6LrQtM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57M-M6LrQtM) and on the dsr i changed the relay for a led one
So my question is, does anyone knows if there is a relay flasher on the Sr/f or it's the central unit with control the blinker?
Thank you for your responses.
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Hi and welcome getdown45! :)
The SR/F does not have a relay for the turn signals, they are controlled by the MBB. You can switch to LED turn signals two ways. Purchase Zero's LED turn signals and have a dealer configure your bike to accept them. Or you can get a pair of LED turn signals and install the appropriate resistor. If you don't add the resistor, you'll get error codes on the dash and the turn signals will blink too fast.
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I put these on mine.
https://youtu.be/HmtL865d6UQ
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Hi and welcome getdown45! :)
The SR/F does not have a relay for the turn signals, they are controlled by the MBB. You can switch to LED turn signals two ways. Purchase Zero's LED turn signals and have a dealer configure your bike to accept them. Or you can get a pair of LED turn signals and install the appropriate resistor. If you don't add the resistor, you'll get error codes on the dash and the turn signals will blink too fast.
Thank you for your welcome.
Ok i got my answer, no relay for the turn signals, so i considered the solution of the resistor but i never heard of Zero's LED turn signals (and a dealer to configure them)?
What is exactly?
I put these on mine.
I think these are the same that i put on my ex Dsr '18 the IXS X-LED IND-60 (look at my link youtube above)?
But you haven't change the turn signals relay (they flash very quickly)?
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Thank you for your welcome.
Ok i got my answer, no relay for the turn signals, so i considered the solution of the resistor but i never heard of Zero's LED turn signals (and a dealer to configure them)?
What is exactly?
Zero offers led turn signals. You can see it in their accessory catalog: https://www.zeromotorcycles.com/accessories-en-us.pdf
The dealer can order and install them.
The Weiser LED turn signals come with a resistor sometimes, you could check with them. It sounds like they have tested it on an SR/F.
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You should probably directly inquire with Weiser. The two factories are only a few blocks apart, I'm sure they've figured it out by now.
-Crissa
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Weiser sent me last month another two pairs of LED boards with other values for those SMD resistors, as I could read on the electronic board. Unfortunately, I could only mount a pair as all four of them would cause the same problem I had with the old ones. Mounting only two of them is slightly better but not enough in the long run. Somehow my Zero also appears to be asymmetric in this regard, turning right get me the error far more often than turning left, regardless of having swapped both sides.
I've decided to stop my time-consuming Weiser LED adventures and made an appointment at the Zero dealership to mount aftermarket LEDs with a proven track record on SR/F.
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Zero offers led turn signals. You can see it in their accessory catalog: https://www.zeromotorcycles.com/accessories-en-us.pdf
The dealer can order and install them.
Great! I did not know that Zero proposed led turn signals in accessory for the Sr/f.
I checked and in Europe (France) these led turn signals are not at the catalog i think.
Do you know how many they cost? And if the installation it must be done by the dealer (maybe there is a programation?)?
I don't like the Weiser Led, i prefer the Zero led or other ones like Rizoma.
I've decided to stop my time-consuming Weiser LED adventures and made an appointment at the Zero dealership to mount aftermarket LEDs with a proven track record on SR/F.
What are the LEDs aftermarket you will mount on your Sr/f? The Zero's Led on the accessory catalog?
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What are the LEDs aftermarket you will mount on your Sr/f? The Zero's Led on the accessory catalog?
The Swiss importer for Zero told me this week that the Zero LED turn signals are not yet available for them to order. I can't remember which one they have chosen to mount instead but they told me they have been using them already many times without problems on various motorcycle brands. They have also fitted their SR/F demo bike with them so this made it very concrete for me.
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Ah mais tu es Suisse Zelidar?! ;D Moi je suis de Lyon (France)
Yes, the Zero's Leds are not available in France (Europe maybe).
Can you ask at your dealer if he mounts the turn signals with a resistor or with a modification in the board computer to avoid the error 19?
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Ah mais tu es Suisse Zelidar?! ;D Moi je suis de Lyon (France)
Oui, et je parle aussi français :)
Yes, the Zero's Leds are not available in France (Europe maybe).
Can you ask at your dealer if he mounts the turn signals with a resistor or with a modification in the board computer to avoid the error 19?
She (yes, a woman) already told me she might have to insert a resistor. A silly solution really. Just like you said, I would prefer the so much cleaner software solution but Zero is a small company and apparently don't have enough resources to make progresses on too many fronts at the same time.
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Hi Guys,
I am pretty sure Zero LED turn signals are available in France, as I have them mounted on my SR/F by my dealer near Paris.
I think you can have them also in Lyon or in Switzerland.
However, I have some "37 errors" at the end of charge process and my hand grips doesn't work anymore since my dealer installed the LED turn signals...
As I am lucky, the mechanic let my bike fall to the ground trying to fix these issues, fortunately no big damages they fixed scratches, but I still have error codes. They told me that they will investigate with Zero engineers to give me a solution next week. Fingers crossed.
I made a post on Facebook with pictures of my bike equipped with the Zero original LED (Groupe des propriétaires de Zero Motorcycles) + une video sur un post de Zero France
BR, Cdt,
Yann
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I contacted my dealer this friday (2 days ago) and i will ask to Zero France the installation's procedure and disponiblity for the Leds.
I am pretty sure Zero LED turn signals are available in France, as I have them mounted on my SR/F by my dealer near Paris.
I think you can have them also in Lyon or in Switzerland.
I made a post on Facebook with pictures of my bike equipped with the Zero original LED (Groupe des propriétaires de Zero Motorcycles) + une video sur un post de Zero France
Like you said ParisIan, i saw on Facebook that the Leds are available in France since the 19th june (and one week more for the smoked version).
Do you know how your dealer proceeded for the installation ? Did he use some resistor?
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No resistors added. Just a new parameter in mainboard.
But my dealer told me that he must contact a Zero engineer to do the mainboard setting as he cannot do it by himself... It sounds like a heavy procedure for a Led turn signals installation.
I am waiting their call to fix my mainboard programmation early this week. Fingers crossed.
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Eh, if they added the parameter after the last version of the dealer software was set... Most vehicles have a bunch of hidden settings like that.
Hopefully they'll add it to the software. There's no good reason to hide these things so deeply.
-Crissa
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My 12V battery problem (2 or 3 batteries replaced, I lost count ; + MBB swapped) was finally fixed at Zero EU on very short notice with a software fix.
According to the (as far as I know, knowledge) dealer, Zero told them they (the dealer) could not have fixed this.
I have been handling software for the better part of 40 years (never embedded, though) ; I still cannot fathom :
- why I am (AFAIK) the only one having experienced this, being all firmware created equal ;
- why an OTA could not have fixed this ;
- why Zero did not remotely diagnose this much earlier ;
- why they keep the dealer in the dark about the exact cause/fix.
Especially this last item still baffles me. These are the guys who are supposed to sell your gear, for ${DEITY} sake.
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1) Your use case is your own. No one has specifically your experience ^-^
2) Couple possibilities:
a) mis-set environment variable
b) malformed version of the software
3) Always go with the simplest solution first. Well, sometimes it's not the simpler problem.
4) How detailed can a software engineer get with a mechanic? Probably just language mismatch.
-Crissa
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4) How detailed can a software engineer get with a mechanic? Probably just language mismatch.
Granted. It's the (perceived) sense of secrecy which bothers me.
But not too much, as long as it doesn't happen again.
But without any information, it's difficult as an end-user/customer, to prevent the circumstances which led to the repeated failure. And due to the missing explanation, you just have to trust them on their word.
As a slight variation on the Russian proverb : trust is good, verification is better. ;)
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Yeah.
It's hard to diagnose weird edge situations or know when an edge will turn into a middle.
Honestly, after building little arduino projects, it amazes me that any hardware/software interface can be as solid as they are.
-Crissa
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The Zero ones are available now, in stock, new part #s. See the notes. Your bike needs a dealer update to install.
Clear:
https://www.af1racing.com/store/Scripts/prodView.asp?idProduct=105515
Smoke:
https://www.af1racing.com/store/Scripts/prodView.asp?idProduct=105597
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Good to know af1 racing, I suppose they are now also available in Europe.
Unfortunately my Zero official CH dealer didn't have them available earlier this month but they did use something small and sturdy, miles better than the original Zero cheapos (still can't believe Zero are still mounting these on the SR/S btw). I also took the opportunity to get rid of the bulky and heavy back plate holding arm. At the occasion of changing the rear tire and reviewing the bill, I was told about the extra work this massive thing caused, good riddance, just like for the Weiser malfunctioning crap.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/X25yN5vUsNoFLgRtlLBxgiKBRBfV2P6uBb9v1dSELZ-L14LZucIdELj8Ku0hIZ8-qnHM_PITM-FHgyWv1wntxE_72gD4JyuTR_ga1hdlgZsSATwGfpvV2tTOw2JjlwpzV1OOXHMG5rT6dX_kyHX6WdnbZUhikdtGLkOHDUotolQQp1Yz5VF0qERq-2USRnl4wTjGfaL5OjorPniX16qJbP_M-UtmLDqM9RRIAUZKoFjnUAGhFnKC2XLRoF0QQkCbH_pwhK1mjn_uwFIosp0JkSjXkcD7ojrVNwfH3fwNZdFeNaRnvQuPX_4fDakrOFYebOS3KJIO26vQVOQQxiXxXUWuhIAMwClTQ1-GrsNy1xHwpXMNaOHIMt0LPGleE2FeUAVxRij5rGLO2-wHPmrsi6tPIKtsSbjVOeUFRsFpZ_HGSo9rEuU6Qd4KqVhsm2vqQm4BHW7obVDO9bSU0LN_qh7-nlwyQXqvDibDG1fQ3euDmuGqXDoCowo9tQUUdmf9dgXfs5MlOC9PheE7FPJduyZrBlKOV8uutzK6eiJTd5oVTIMLbAY-54QY51D-JO_LnQIjj9iC0ODqkCc-WlAOST1CkJwNQBtdI_B03_rhQox1G7XC65cV3NT5lt6TxbTdHOnO6pNrfEu26kehs_M0-ri-7NylFEa7qa3IuYXNPLXTTcstpoUUPpC5f1QVdC4=s512-no?authuser=0)