ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Energica => Topic started by: DonTom on August 11, 2019, 09:24:54 AM
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I rode Big Pappa's SS9 today (Thanks!) for a few miles.
If any of this is not accurate (for any reason) , please let me know (also, some of this is about the added stuff):
First, what I do like about the SS9:
1. The Energica SS9 is VERY comfy. Less forward lean than either of my two Zeros (very unlike the Zero SR/F).
2. Bike is high enough and the footpegs are low enough (very unlike the Zero SR/F).
3. Much better seat than my Zeros.
4. Faster bike even than my Zero SR.
5. Chain driven (large thick chain). I won't have to worry about it snapping at the worse possible time.
6. Has a neat sound that I like. Different from the Zeros. Still very little noise.
7. Better charging system. It can charge from 120 VAC (1.5 kw <6 hours> ) , 240 VAC (3.3 KW <3 hours>) or at a couple of hundred DC volts (CCS) at 20 KW. To full charge in about 20 minutes on CCS (if battery is not totally ran down).
8. It has a reverse. Also a super slow forward at the same speed (~1.75 MPH).
9. The regen is selectable from any mode.
10. It has ABS, and traction control.
11. All LED lights.
12. Has a horn so loud it does NOT need to be changed!
13. Comes stock with heated grips.
14. Has cruise control.
15. Look really neat. Does not look like my Zeros at all. Looks more like a real motorcycle--even better, IMO.
Now, a few things things that I don't like:
1. No TPMS, and an external sensor will hit the front brake caliper.
2. Rear brake pedal so low it's difficult to find and use. However, I think there is an easy fix for that because the brake level is perfectly round, so we should be able to slip something over it to make it seem higher.
3. I don't think a Travel Trunk can be added to this bike and the side cases are small.
4. Very small windscreen (but I kinda like the very small one on days like today and warmer).
5. No 12 volt outlet. Only two USB. However, there is 12 volts inside the bike somewhere. I will have to find it and for enough current for a tire pump and other stuff.
6. No custom mode. But it has enough modes as is (five, IIRC) along with the fact that regen is independent of mode.
7. CCS charging is never free. Cost a few bucks always. But can still use the many free J-1772's in Reno and many other places.
8. Less range than my SR. Perhaps around 65 miles at 65 MPH, or 130 miles at 40 MPH. 11.7 KWH usable battery on heavy bike. Not much of an issue if riding from Reno to San Diego as more than enough CCS charging stations on that route. But going north or east of Reno could be a problem. 20 minute breaks about every hour or less are fine with me, as long as I can charge somewhere.
0. Other (neither good nor bad) : While the bike is a lot heaver than my SR, I do not notice it at all, not even at below 5 MPH.
On Tuesday, I will sit on the more sporty Energicas first to see if I can tolerate them. I really like the red one with the frame mounted fairing, but I hear it is way too sporty of a riding position, but I will check it out for myself. The SS9 I rode today is the least powerful (still more power than my Zeros) and the least sporty of the three models.
The bottom line is:
I will buy the SS9 (most likely) on Tuesday in Mt. View.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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I'm interested if the dealer offers you a fixed trade-in price towards the 20 kWh Energica.
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I'm interested if the dealer offers you a fixed trade-in price towards the 20 kWh Energica.
I never trade bikes in. I buy them and keep them forever, or until they are not worth fixing. Note that I still have (and ride as much as my other ICE bikes )my 1971 BMW R75/5 which I purchased new in May of 1971.
But what is this about a 20KWH Energica? Is that a vaporware battery from Energica or does it really exist (yet)?
-Don- Auburn, CA
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I knew you'd find the SS9 super comfy. Sounds like a lot more positives than negatives. Sorry we weren't able to make it up there today.
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The SS-9's handlebar will support one of the many bar-mounted windshields on the market to cut down on the wind blast and maybe increase range slightly. My favorite bar-mounted windshield is the National Cycle Deflector Screen DX. It doesn't cost much more than $100 and is quickly removable via a couple of large plastic knobs.
Regarding a 12V power source: One option is to buy one of those lithium battery pocket jump start devices. Just get one that has a 12V outlet that can output at least 10 amps and you can use that for powering a small air pump along with other devices, such as your phone. I had one of those jump starters and before giving it to one of my granddaughters when she went to college, I found that it had enough juice to power my heated jacket and heated gloves for about 2 hours.
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Just a couple of minor corrections.
1) Heated grips are an option, they don't come standard on the Energicas.
2) While the headlight and tailight are LEDs, the turn signals are conventional bulbs although the stalks look like they're easy to replace with LED units if you want.
It was great meeting you in person Don and I'm sure you'll love the EsseEsse9!
@dittoalex where did you hear of an upcoming 20kw battery? I'm not worried about trading mine in since it has sufficient range for my needs but it would be interesting to know if it would be possible to swap out the current 13kw battery and VCU for a larger battery (as well as the cost).
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Regarding a 12V power source: One option is to buy one of those lithium battery pocket jump start devices. Just get one that has a 12V outlet that can output at least 10 amps and you can use that for powering a small air pump along with other devices, such as your phone. I had one of those jump starters and before giving it to one of my granddaughters when she went to college, I found that it had enough juice to power my heated jacket and heated gloves for about 2 hours.
I have several of those. Somehow, I never thought about using one with a tire pump before, because I have 12 volt outlets on all my other bikes. Thanks for the idea!
-Don- Auburn, CA
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The SS-9's handlebar will support one of the many bar-mounted windshields on the market to cut down on the wind blast and maybe increase range slightly. My favorite bar-mounted windshield is the National Cycle Deflector Screen DX. It doesn't cost much more than $100 and is quickly removable via a couple of large plastic knobs.
What I would really want is one that I can change easily for different weather. The very small one was perfect for warm weather.
Oh, one more small negative, I don't think the SS9 had self- cancelling turn signals. I often forget to cancel them on my Zeros as well.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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I'm interested if the dealer offers you a fixed trade-in price towards the 20 kWh Energica.
I never trade bikes in. I buy them and keep them forever, or until they are not worth fixing. Note that I still have (and ride as much as my other ICE bikes )my 1971 BMW R75/5 which I purchased new in May of 1971.
But what is this about a 20KWH Energica? Is that a vaporware battery from Energica or does it really exist (yet)?
-Don- Auburn, CA
"The MotoE bike can already exceed 167mph, weighs less than 260kg and its battery has almost double the capacity of the current production bike with just over 20kWh," he said, "And every year the lap times have to reduce to show MotoGP fans we are advancing.
"This technology will come back to the Ego road bike and in 2020 we will unveil a completely new platform of electric sportsbike based on the MotoE bike’s technology. We are aiming for a range of 125-miles irrespective of use with similar torque levels to the current bike.
I know there is a new "platform" coming for the Energica line and the only thing I could squeeze out of anyone is that it is maybe a year away but soon. The big change is going to be in battery weight and capacity. Sounds like we are going to get the 20 Kwh race bike battery which is supposed to be lighter than the current battery. looks like the motor and gearbox remain the same. They also said that all motors across the line are the same limited to 150 Kw (200 hp). Software and hardware limits the power output on various models. They also said that even though the new battery could be installed in an existing bike, the change would be cost prohibitive and if I bought an existing bike this close to the new bike release that they would guarantee me a fixed trade in price on the used bike when the new one is released.
I thought MotoE was vaporware, especially after the fire. But now I don't have a reason to not trust Energica.
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I will be headed for Mt. View in around 30 minutes. The SS9 is still there, I just got an email from Jaxon.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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Good luck with the purchase! Post pics once you get it!
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+1 :)
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Please excuse me while I edit my list of motorcycles below. . . .
I cannot buy any more bikes because I now have zero characters left to use in the
"signature" line. I even had to remove my Tesla from the last line, but it's not a motorcycle anyway.
-Don- Mountain View, CA
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I discovered today that they can deliver to any motorcycle shop that is willing. I have done some business with the Indian shop in Auburn and I can even walk that distance (several miles but I am into hiking). So I will ask them in the morning. I purchased a $500.00 motorcycle jacket there, so that makes me their customer.
The jacket says "Indian" on the back and I don't even own an Indian, but it's a nice jacket, especially for very cold weather.
They took some photos in the shop with me next to the bike. They say they wanted it for their facebook page. Perhaps they will send it to me too. I did not bother to take any photos myself.
They say they received this bike with only one key but are trying to get the other. No keys in box. I have the 120 VAC charging stuff (which I doubt I will ever use) as well as the "Welcome Kit" with the owner's manual, etc. but no keys inside.
The bike is mine, but when I get it delivered is an unknown, but could be in just a few days if all goes smoothly.
-Don- Mountain View, CA
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Awesome, congrats!
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WooHoo! Welcome to the Energica family. :)
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They took some photos in the shop with me next to the bike. They say they wanted it for their facebook page. Perhaps they will send it to me too. I did not bother to take any photos myself.
https://www.facebook.com/calmotomv/photos/a.192659770775318/2977628768945057/?type=3&theater
Hope you get it soon!
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Hope you get it soon!
Thanks for the link here. (https://www.facebook.com/calmotomv/photos/a.192659770775318/2977628768945057/?type=3&theater)
I must have looked for it before it was up. BTW, I am on Facebook, but I almost never use it.
-Don- Mountain View, CA
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Please excuse me while I edit my list of motorcycles below. . . .
Congrats, DonTom! May you enjoy the bike and may it keep its rubber side down ;D
I cannot buy any more bikes because I now have zero characters left to use in the
"signature" line. I even had to remove my Tesla from the last line, but it's not a motorcycle anyway.
Now that's what I call a first-world problem...
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1) Heated grips are an option, they don't come standard on the Energicas.
I assume the heated grips run from 12 VDC-- I recall somebody here, besides me, looking for a 12 VDC source in the Energica.
I see on page 72 of the owner's manual, the ten amp fuse for the heated grips & USB. Looks very easy to wire to, and ten amps should be good for around 135 watts (the "12 volts" is probably is really around 13.8VDC ) when the grips are not being used. But I am not sure where to find a good point for a return. I assume the frame is not used as a ground, as in other EVs. But finding the floating ground wire should also be easy to find.
-Don- Mountain View, CA
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Congratulations, Don. Keep us informed about your experiences with your new SS9 and have fun riding your new Energica. :)
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I am not sure where to find a good point for a return. I assume the frame is not used as a ground, as in other EVs. But finding the floating ground wire should also be easy to find.
-Don- Mountain View, CA
Don, congrats on the purchase!
The frame is the ground reference for the 12v side of the bikes electrical system. You are correct the battery ground is floated.
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I am not sure where to find a good point for a return. I assume the frame is not used as a ground, as in other EVs. But finding the floating ground wire should also be easy to find. The frame is the ground reference for the 12v side of the bikes electrical system. You are correct the battery ground is floated.
Thanks for that info. That is unlike my Zeros which even uses a floating ground for the 13.8 VDC.
It's nice to know that the Energica Service Manger is on line here!
Looks like adding a 12 VDC socket will be no issue on my new bike, as long as I can find a neat way to run just one wire. It will not have the heated grips so I assume that ten amp fuse will be good up to 8 amps or so from the output side of that fuse. But if I use my own fuse from the opposite side, would I be able to draw, say 15 amps, if I needed to run a tire air compressor? Tire pumps are usually just over that ten amps under load, IIRC.
One more question, unrelated. The front tire valve stem. Can it be changed to a straight one so I can add a small TMPS sensor (such as used with many of the Garmin GPSes) that will not hit the front brake caliper? I have a TPMS on my other nine bikes and I won't feel right not having one on this bike for both tires.
In other news, I should have the bike here by perhaps Friday. I already made arrangements at the Indian shop. It is only costing me $100.00 to have it shipped there (as long as it is to a motorcycle shop and not direct to my house). It's just 4.5 miles there, which I can and probably will hike to to pick up my car after I pick up the bike. I can still do a five mile (two hour) hike in my old age!
-Don- Auburn, CA
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One more question, unrelated. The front tire valve stem. Can it be changed to a straight one so I can add a small TMPS sensor (such as used with many of the Garmin GPSes) that will not hit the front brake caliper? I have a TPMS on my other nine bikes and I won't feel right not having one on this bike for both tires.
Will these T-valves work? https://my-fobo.com/Product/FOBOACCS
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Hey congrats DonTom.
It is funny though, whatever motorcycle a company makes, a new owner with start to modify it as soon as he gets home. :)
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Will these T-valves work?
The "T" is what causes the problem. If the SS9 can use a normal straight tire valve that will solve the problem. But it could then be a little more difficult to get to, but with a TPMS I will always know the PSI anyway, so it only becomes an issue when actually filling up the tire.
But the rim around the tire valve looks kinda nonstandard and it could require only that valve that is OEM from Energica, which cannot be longer or it hits the front brake caliper.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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Hey congrats DonTom.
It is funny though, whatever motorcycle a company makes, a new owner with start to modify it as soon as he gets home. :)
Yep, but usually the very first thing I do is change the horn. I now have two motorcycles not requiring such. The Harley and the SS9. The BMW came close to being loud enough.
The Zero horns were the worse of all. A yell would be a lot louder than the little "beep beep" from the Zero. But they did improve the horn on the SR/F, IIRC.
Also, I like the horn to work when the ignition is not on. Can't do that with the Zeros without a big hassle. I have had one accident caused by being parked all because I had the key out and the horn didn't work. I have also prevented such from happening after I modified the horn.
In case you wonder how that happens, on my BMW, I stopped behind a van near my house (then) in South San Francisco. I stopped to adjust a mirror or something like that. I turned of the ignition and as soon as I did that, the van started and reversed into me in about a second flat. I didn't even know there was anybody in it. A working horn would have prevented that. The other time I was in a parking lot, and I prevented somebody from backing into my bike right when I got back to the bike buy pressing the horn. No time for key, which was in my pocket.
I cannot think of a single reason why a horn should not work with the key out and ignition off.
But you're right, I have never owned a motorcycle that I did not want to change or add something the day I got it home. I think the only way we can get a bike every way we want is to build it ourselves.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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Hey congrats DonTom.
It is funny though, whatever motorcycle a company makes, a new owner with start to modify it as soon as he gets home. :)
Yep, but usually the very first thing I do is change the horn. I now have two motorcycles not requiring such. The Harley and the SS9. The BMW came close to being loud enough.
Wait, what? Your 1970s Beemer didn't come stock with a dual-tone double Fiamm horn? That's the standard against which all loud bike horns are measured, IME, and the horn most folks replace their non-BMW bike's with...
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Wait, what? Your 1970s Beemer didn't come stock with a dual-tone double Fiamm horn? That's the standard against which all loud bike horns are measured, IME, and the horn most folks replace their non-BMW bike's with...
The stock 1971 BMW horn (single car type horn) was about the loudest horn you could find on a motorcycle back in those days. IOW, still not very loud, but a lot louder than all the Japanese horns, which isn't saying much.
I remember one of the motorcycle magazines complaining about it back in those days. Saying we should all go into a motorcycle shop and ask to press the horn and say "can't buy this bike, horn is too weak."
BTW, the very weakest horns I ever heard came stock on my 2017 Zeros. A very faint "beep". The SR/F horn is quite a bit louder, so at least they did something about it. I put on dual flamms (with a relay) on each of my Zeros.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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2. Rear brake pedal so low it's difficult to find and use. However, I think there is an easy fix for that because the brake level is perfectly round, so we should be able to slip something over it to make it seem higher.
It's adjustable like any other motorcycle rear brake.
Use the rod that pushes the pump to adjust!
btw: I ride a SS9 Special since April (4500km b.n.) and I'm very satisfied with it :-)
Only issues: I swapped tires to Pirelli Angel GT 2 because the Phantom can't really handle the weight.
Just ordered a Hyperpro shock because my Bitubo don't fit my needs.
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Wait, what? Your 1970s Beemer didn't come stock with a dual-tone double Fiamm horn? That's the standard against which all loud bike horns are measured, IME, and the horn most folks replace their non-BMW bike's with...
The stock 1971 BMW horn (single car type horn) was about the loudest horn you could find on a motorcycle back in those days. IOW, still not very loud, but a lot louder than all the Japanese horns, which isn't saying much.
I remember one of the motorcycle magazines complaining about it back in those days. Saying we should all go into a motorcycle shop and ask to press the horn and say "can't buy this bike, horn is too weak."
BTW, the very weakest horns I ever heard came stock on my 2017 Zeros. A very faint "beep". The SR/F horn is quite a bit louder, so at least they did something about it. I put on dual flamms (with a relay) on each of my Zeros.
-Don- Auburn, CA
Interesting. Both the 1982 R65LS which I rode when living in the US in the early 1990s, and the 1977 R100RS I bought when I returned to Israel in 1995 had the dual-Fiamm setup, and I recall people saying on the motorcycle newsgroups at the time saying this was standard on the airheads. I guess not... The horns on the Japanese bikes I remember were actually weaker than a bicycle bell.
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Wait, what? Your 1970s Beemer didn't come stock with a dual-tone double Fiamm horn? That's the standard against which all loud bike horns are measured, IME, and the horn most folks replace their non-BMW bike's with...
The stock 1971 BMW horn (single car type horn) was about the loudest horn you could find on a motorcycle back in those days. IOW, still not very loud, but a lot louder than all the Japanese horns, which isn't saying much.
I remember one of the motorcycle magazines complaining about it back in those days. Saying we should all go into a motorcycle shop and ask to press the horn and say "can't buy this bike, horn is too weak."
BTW, the very weakest horns I ever heard came stock on my 2017 Zeros. A very faint "beep". The SR/F horn is quite a bit louder, so at least they did something about it. I put on dual flamms (with a relay) on each of my Zeros.
-Don- Auburn, CA
Interesting. Both the 1982 R65LS which I rode when living in the US in the early 1990s, and the 1977 R100RS I bought when I returned to Israel in 1995 had the dual-Fiamm setup, and I recall people saying on the motorcycle newsgroups at the time saying this was standard on the airheads. I guess not... The horns on the Japanese bikes I remember were actually weaker than a bicycle bell.
My daughter's 1981 BMW R65LS still has the original horn and it goes "beep, beep", not "honk, honk". :( I am not sure that any BMWs came stock with a dual-Fiamm horn. But that was certainly a common after-sales upgrade. Nowadays, I believe that motorcycle horn decibels are set by law and likely have to conform to the lowest common denominator of those regulations. ???
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Wait, what? Your 1970s Beemer didn't come stock with a dual-tone double Fiamm horn? That's the standard against which all loud bike horns are measured, IME, and the horn most folks replace their non-BMW bike's with...
I cannot speak for the later models, but my 1971 BMW R75/5 came with a single horn mounted on the frame just behind the forks. It was considered loud when compared to the Japanese bikes back then but borderline when deciding if I should change it or not. IIRC, I changed to dual horns after the stock one crapped out, so I decided to leave it stock until then.
Now the BIG news:
I pick up my new bike here tomorrow!
-Don- Auburn, CA
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I think I mentioned here before that my SS9 only has one key. Both the spare and master are missing. The dealer received the bike that way, the two extra keys were not in the box.
They are trying to find the keys at Energica. But if they cannot find them, I was told they will pick up my bike for free from here in Auburn for the 600 miles service and change the immobilizer and then I will have all three keys.
I hope they mean free both ways.
Anyway, a deal like that makes me almost hope they do not find my keys.
BTW, what do they do in the 600 mile service besides change the tranny fluid (that they call motor oil) and the coolant? I was planning on doing that much myself anyway. Or is there any reason why I can't or shouldn't?
-Don- Auburn, CA
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According to the owner's manual, there's electric motor oil as well as transmission oil. The 600 mile service calls for the transmission oil to be checked but the motor oil and coolant to be changed. There are also a number of inspections to be performed.
I've found that sometimes, service manuals will have more items to be checked and/or replaced than what the owner's manual specifies. The lack of a service manual to make sure is the only reason I could think of to let the dealer perform the 600 mile service rather than performing it yourself. That or if you're unsure about working around the high voltage components.
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According to the owner's manual, there's electric motor oil as well as transmission oil. The 600 mile service calls for the transmission oil to be checked but the motor oil and coolant to be changed. There are also a number of inspections to be performed.
I've found that sometimes, service manuals will have more items to be checked and/or replaced than what the owner's manual specifies. The lack of a service manual to make sure is the only reason I could think of to let the dealer perform the 600 mile service rather than performing it yourself. That or if you're unsure about working around the high voltage components.
I have worked around high voltage for most of my life, so that's not an issue. BTW, that also means I have been zapped a few times by screwing up in one way or another. ;D
I see the bike has a 300V battery.
Let's see, I have the owner's manual right here. Page 111 & 112:
tranny oil: change at 600 miles.
Motor oil:inspect at 600 miles, replace at 6,000 miles.
Inspect coolant at 600 miles, replace at 6,000 miles.
So it looks like only the tranny fluid is to be changed at 600 miles.
Is there any instructions or info., where the drain plugs are located and the amount of fluids required in the owner's manual? If so, I am not finding it.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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> 7. CCS charging is never free. Cost a few bucks always. But can still use the many free J-1772's in Reno and many other places.
Plugshare shows some free ones.
For example, Harley-Davidson of Rocklin CA and Reno NV : - )
And Stonestown Mall, San Francisco.
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I have worked around high voltage for most of my life, so that's not an issue. BTW, that also means I have been zapped a few times by screwing up in one way or another. ;D
I see the bike has a 300V battery.
Let's see, I have the owner's manual right here. Page 111 & 112:
tranny oil: change at 600 miles.
Motor oil:inspect at 600 miles, replace at 6,000 miles.
Inspect coolant at 600 miles, replace at 6,000 miles.
So it looks like only the tranny fluid is to be changed at 600 miles.
Is there any instructions or info., where the drain plugs are located and the amount of fluids required in the owner's manual? If so, I am not finding it.
-Don- Auburn, CA
I stand corrected. I was posting from my faulty memory. ;) I haven't found any instructions or diagrams in the owner's manual for changing fluids (drain plug locations, torque values, etc.).
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I stand corrected. I was posting from my faulty memory. ;) I haven't found any instructions or diagrams in the owner's manual for changing fluids (drain plug locations, torque values, etc.).
Some torque values are on page 74.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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It's nice to know that the Energica Service Manger is on line here!
Looks like adding a 12 VDC socket will be no issue on my new bike, as long as I can find a neat way to run just one wire. It will not have the heated grips so I assume that ten amp fuse will be good up to 8 amps or so from the output side of that fuse. But if I use my own fuse from the opposite side, would I be able to draw, say 15 amps, if I needed to run a tire air compressor? Tire pumps are usually just over that ten amps under load, IIRC.
One more question, unrelated. The front tire valve stem. Can it be changed to a straight one so I can add a small TMPS sensor (such as used with many of the Garmin GPSes) that will not hit the front brake caliper? I have a TPMS on my other nine bikes and I won't feel right not having one on this bike for both tires.
-Don- Auburn, CA
Thanks, happy to be here, I love these things too!
Regarding the max amp load on the accessory fuse, you should not go over the 10A rating as the wires are not specified for constant loads above that. Is it possible you could draw 15Amps from that circuit without negative effects? Possibly...
These is nothing special about the valve mount on the Energica wheels. Just a small recess on the backside of the rim that the securing nut sits in. I do not see any issue with exchanging the factory units over for TPS ones. Granted it will make adding air a bit harder do the disk clearance.
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Thanks, happy to be here, I love these things too!
Regarding the max amp load on the accessory fuse, you should not go over the 10A rating as the wires are not specified for constant loads above that. Is it possible you could draw 15Amps from that circuit without negative effects? Possibly...
That's kinda what I assumed. IMO, a little over the ten amps should be fine because if will never be for more than a few minutes if ever used at all at such current, which will most likely only be 11 or 12 amps anyway, such a small tire air compressor.
These is nothing special about the valve mount on the Energica wheels. Just a small recess on the backside of the rim that the securing nut sits in. I do not see any issue with exchanging the factory units over for TPS ones. Granted it will make adding air a bit harder do the disk clearance.
What I would want is just a standard straight valve so I can add a Garmin TPMS (https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/131744)sensor, which are light and small. I expect it to be a little more difficult when I need to add air. But it was that recess that I was concerned with.
I am getting the bike delivered here tomorrow. But there is an issue, the master and spare key are both lost. The dealer says they have never received them from Energica, so they are working with them now on that issue. It could mean the bike must go back for a new immobilizer if they cannot find the keys, but Energica will pay for the bike to go back and then I can get my 600 mi service done as well, which isn't a bad deal.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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> 7. CCS charging is never free. Cost a few bucks always. But can still use the many free J-1772's in Reno and many other places.
Plugshare shows some free ones.
For example, Harley-Davidson of Rocklin CA and Reno NV : - )
And Stonestown Mall, San Francisco.
I meant for our bikes. The charger at the Rocklin HD is not yet on line, but IIRC, it mentioned something about the charge rates right on the box. I think it could be free for the LW only.
Notice that NOBODY has charged there yet. I am the "Donald" check-in there. I know Plugshare makes it look like it is on-line, but it isn't, but should be sometime next month. Also, notice no check-ins in Reno, perhaps it is also not yet on-line.
Also, I was also told by an employee at the Reno shop that there will be a charge to non-Harleys.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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I wonder how they prevent someone from using the charger without paying while the store is selling Screaming Eagle parts to someone or when the shop is closed? ??? Perhaps the LiveWire has a BMS that tells the charger that the charging session is free.
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I wonder how they prevent someone from using the charger without paying while the store is selling Screaming Eagle parts to someone or when the shop is closed? ??? Perhaps the LiveWire has a BMS that tells the charger that the charging secession is free.
Probably not. It doesn't have to be all that complicated. Many chargers have a card used to activate these chargers. Or a SmartPhone. Or can be activated by a telephone call. Or a credit card. The HD charge stations are ChargePoint. I have several ChargePoint cards that should work with the HD chargers. How I am charged is by the Chargepoint card and the credit card it is linked to. So all Harley has to do is pay Chargepoint for when the Harleys charge at the HD chargers. I don't think the charge station knows more than the account used. IOW, if I purchased a Livewire but ONLY used the HD Charepoint stations with my Energica, I bet it would still be free for my Energica at HD stations.
But I am not sure. I know some chargers do read your VIN, such as the Tesla Superchargers. But I don't think CCS does. No doubt somebody here knows more than I do about the CCS, as I have not yet even used such. But soon will.
Also, see here. (https://www.autoblog.com/2019/07/11/harley-davidson-livewire-electrify-america-free-charging/)
-Don- Auburn, CA
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The CCS charger reads the MAC address of the vehicle. In The Netherlands, the major fast charging network (FastNed), provides a feature called ‘autocharge’ where the charging automatically starts after inserting the CCS connector and recognizing the vehicle.
I can imagine HD could have a ‘positive list’ of vehicles being able to charge at their stations under certain conditions
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secession is free.
Free, you say?
(https://res.cloudinary.com/teepublic/image/private/s--IHYu07Gx--/t_Preview/b_rgb:191919,c_limit,f_jpg,h_630,q_90,w_630/v1515384966/production/designs/2262578_1.jpg)
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Auto correct strikes again and I wasn't paying enough attention. :(
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I now have my SS9 here at my house in Auburn.
It took me a few minutes to figure how to get it to run. The screen mentions the front brake but didn't mention I have to hold the switch in at the same time to get it going.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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I checked the various things today, such as the tranny fluid level, coolant level and tire PSI. Front tire was about 5 psi low, but all else was fine. When checking the coolant level, I was surprised that the very large motor controller is made in the USA!
The motor controller in my Zeros come from China.
After a ride, I made the shocks more stiff. I think it even bottomed out a couple of times during the ride before I adjusted anything. Something made a loud noise after riding over a couple of bumps in the road. I left the damper adjustment alone at 2. I really have no idea what to do with that and the Owner's manual doesn't say much about it.
One good thing, I discovered. One type of TPMS sensor clears the front brake caliper just fine as is. That is this unit (https://www.amazon.com/Monitoring-monitoring-Motorcycle-Waterproof-Two-Wheeled/dp/B076KKYDRQ/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=motorcycle+TPMS&qid=1566107797&s=automotive&sr=1-3), and it works form five volts USB, so that is perfect for this bike.
The Garmin sensors are a lot longer than the sensors shown above.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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After a ride, I made the shocks more stiff. I think it even bottomed out a couple of times during the ride before I adjusted anything. Something made a loud noise after riding over a couple of bumps in the road. I left the damper adjustment alone at 2. I really have no idea what to do with that and the Owner's manual doesn't say much about it.
Do a right measurement about the suspensions-slag like subscribed in the manual.
It gaves my SS9 a much better handling!
Guess the sound was a hard "klong". Surprised me as well.
It's the bottom of the chain hitting the protector of the under swingarm. Thats made of some resistable material, not rubber than some other bikes and that "klongs" on hard bumps. Not nice but no failure...
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Do a right measurement about the suspensions-slag like subscribed in the manual. It gaves my SS9 a much better handling!
Guess the sound was a hard "klong". Surprised me as well.
It's the bottom of the chain hitting the protector of the under swingarm. Thats made of some resistable material, not rubber than some other bikes and that "klongs" on hard bumps. Not nice but no failure...
I don't recall seeing that in the manual, but I will look for such later.
It's nice to know what that noise was. Now that I know, it's NBD. Thanks.
BTW, I now have a Garmin GPS (with a charge station saved category) as well as a TPMS added to my SS9.
One more thing I can add to my do not like list. The regen does not go low enough to be useful on the freeway in the hills. It needs to have something between off and the low regen setting, closer to off. I find the best is to just keep it off totally between Auburn and Reno as I will get a lot more distance on a charge by better coasting than I can get from regen on at any level. I use 20% regen on my Zero SR which is perfect for the freeway on this same run.
BTW, I never checked, I stayed in the Urban mode all the way, but does the mode have any effect on regen? If I went to Sport mode, would low regen be the same as in Urban or does regen change to a lower amount on each range? I didn't think about that until now.
Nevertheless, I love the bike! When the weather is decent near the summit, I will probably always ride the SS9 to go back and fourth between Reno and Auburn.
-Don- Reno, NV
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The regen does not go low enough to be useful on the freeway in the hills.
Regen is not adjustable, it's something you have to get used to ;-)
Riding and regen modes don't effect each other.
I mostly ride my Esse in sport-mode, traction control level 2. Even on wet conditions, TC works well :-)
Full regen is nice cause you almost need no brakes but needs more concentration at the throttle.
If you're self in "flower-picking-mode" it acts to hard. Then I use one less (middle-mode). Low and off make no sense for me by now.
Something I didn't know at first:
If you close throttle just a little bit there is no regen at all - just rolling like "Sail-Mode" at BMW C-evolution. Very nice.
Try sport mode and middle regen and play with the throttle a bit ;-)
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Something I didn't know at first:
If you close throttle just a little bit there is no regen at all - just rolling like "Sail-Mode" at BMW C-evolution. Very nice.
Try sport mode and middle regen and play with the throttle a bit ;-)
Thanks, I did not know that trick, that sounds handy.
The idea is to get the best range going down hill, which is NOT accomplished when the bike slows down too much. If I can have good regen when I must slow down, but not when I want to coast as far as possible, that trick sound perfect. I will try it, thanks.
-Don- Reno, NV
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After playing around with modes, regen, and traction control settings over the past month, I've settled into sport mode, high regen and TC level 1 for my daily commute. As Kradblatt said, the higher regen modes means I only use my brakes when coming to a complete stop or in case of emergency. Everything else is done via the throttle. Once you get used to where the "neutral" zone is in the throttle, you can coast as desired any time you want. It is a small zone though so you do have to get used to it and rough roads can have you jerking between acceleration and regen braking.
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After playing around with modes, regen, and traction control settings over the past month, I've settled into sport mode, high regen and TC level 1 for my daily commute. As Kradblatt said, the higher regen modes means I only use my brakes when coming to a complete stop or in case of emergency. Everything else is done via the throttle. Once you get used to where the "neutral" zone is in the throttle, you can coast as desired any time you want. It is a small zone though so you do have to get used to it and rough roads can have you jerking between acceleration and regen braking.
Yeah, I figured out how to do that on the way up here to my Cold Springs Valley House from my main Reno home. That is helpful. This is around 18 miles north from my main house in Reno and I can take freeway or side streets to get here. I took the freeway today.
But from Reno to Auburn, there is very little stopping but lots of hills, up and down each way, so then I may as well just keep the regen totally off. BTW, I never checked . . .is there any brake regen or is it only deceleration regen?
For the freeway custom mode on my Zeros, I use near the opposite extremes. 20% decel regen, 100% braking regen. The only reason I keep it at 20% is because I feel no difference at zero % in how the Zeros will coast.
BTW, the new bike does the Level Two charging just fine here also, but here I do not use a Tesla Tap.
-Don- Cold Springs Valley, NV
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I believe it's regen deceleration only. I don't recall reading anything about regen from braking. Of course not reading anything about it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. ;)
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I believe it's regen deceleration only. I don't recall reading anything about regen from braking. Of course not reading anything about it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. ;)
It's more like my Tesla. It also has no braking regen, but the decel regin is so powerful that there is not much use for the brake.
I prefer the way Zero does it, so they can be set independently. IOW, set for better coasting and better braking at the same time.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Regen is not adjustable, it's something you have to get used to ;-)
Riding and regen modes don't effect each other.
So the SS9 regen is not throttle controlled?
I had the impression from some of the first reviews that you could adjust regen with the throttle. If that is not the case- that is a bummer. I'm not particularly found of binary regen response. Having a car (ioniq ev) that is not, i would definitely prefer my bike to be able to adjust the regen magnitude with the throttle, and not just by switching modes.
Does it work well to change regen setting on the fly, or do you always find one setting for the whole trip?
(For example with my zero, i toggle between custom (low brake regen, no throttle off regen) and sport then eco while going downhill into a crossing, but i find it cumbersome to switch quickly back to when i reach the end of the slop and need to accelerate (where eco feels like a bummer).
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The amount of regen is based on how much you roll off the throttle but that initial and max regen amount is based on the regen setting on the bike itself (low, medium, high, or off). Others can correct me if I'm wrong but based on my riding and playing around with the various settings, that's the way it seems to work to me.
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FWIW, I find for my riding between here and Reno, it is best to keep the regen off. Even the lowest setting is way too much regen for the freeway if you want to get the best range on a charge. Better coasting is a lot more important than regen when going down hill at higher speeds.
One nice thing is the SS9 coasts very well with the regen off. A lot better than my Zeros with the regen off.
I wish the bike had breaking regen, but by looking at the regen scale on the upper left top of the screen, there is NO braking regen at all in any mode. I would like to put that at the max possible as when we need to brake, it can help charge the battery as we stop even faster and do less wear on the brakes.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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The amount of regen is based on how much you roll off the throttle but that initial and max regen amount is based on the regen setting on the bike itself (low, medium, high, or off). Others can correct me if I'm wrong but based on my riding and playing around with the various settings, that's the way it seems to work to me.
Thanks for that piece of information, BigPoppa. Then i didn't get it entirely wrong from the beginning.
FWIW, I find for my riding between here and Reno, it is best to keep the regen off. Even the lowest setting is way too much regen for the freeway if you want to get the best range on a charge. Better coasting is a lot more important than regen when going down hill at higher speeds.
One nice thing is the SS9 coasts very well with the regen off. A lot better than my Zeros with the regen off.
I wish the bike had breaking regen, but by looking at the regen scale on the upper left top of the screen, there is NO braking regen at all in any mode. I would like to put that at the max possible as when we need to brake, it can help charge the battery as we stop even faster and do less wear on the brakes.
-Don- Auburn, CA
Thanks Don, i found my '15 SR better at coasting using 1% regen, but still it is not the same as having the wheel running freely.
I can understand that Energica chose not to have a brake regen setting, since it would mean added hardware on the brake lever to modulate the output. There is also the point that going hard on the front brake may lift the rear wheel or have it skid easily. Ideally i would like to see something like an integral brake where the regen brake increase up to a point where it would decrease when going harder at the front brake- but to find the sweetspot for such a construct in all types of traction is probably not so easy.
I can totally relate to the feeling of the smallest step being too big. I guess rider weight and driving style may come a bit into play (even though the bike is rather heavy in itself). For my zero i adjusted the brake lever regen to some 30% or so which is not much but it doesn't make the ride jerky when splitting lanes or being in dense traffic in wet weather.
For my car i wanted only coasting and (modulated) brake regen the first year i had it. The car did have modulated brake regen, so that worked quite well (enabling super-low cost driving). But at some point i gave in and tried the concept of one pedal driving, and although i am not a die hard fan of it, i find that i use it to some degree every time i drive except when the cruise control is on (i rarely hypermile). The beauty of one pedal (or throttle only) driving is that it requires very little input effort, and it is efficient in traffic. Going fast from accelerating to braking makes for efficient (not economical) driving. Now the car i have has four settings for regen which can be adjusted from the steering wheel, and i usually use them all every time i drive, except in winter where the hardest regen setting can be too much on snow and ice, and sliding using regen is different (in a not so pleasant way) than sliding with ordinary ABS function.
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I wish the bike had breaking regen, but by looking at the regen scale on the upper left top of the screen, there is NO braking regen at all in any mode.
Sorry Don, I don't understand the difference. Lack of technical english :-P ;-)
Baraking regen / decelerate regen / coasting
For my understanding:
- when I close the throttle just a bit, the bike just rolls. This is coasting, right? So there is no need for a regen off seting.
- when I close throttle more the recuperation starts. As more I close it as harder the bike brakes (due to choose level) and gives back energy to the battery.
Higher regen level always gives you more range and saves brakes even if you coast the most time
But no regen lowers range at all cause you need to pull brakes in case.
Or do I get something wrong?
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I wish the bike had breaking regen, but by looking at the regen scale on the upper left top of the screen, there is NO braking regen at all in any mode.
Sorry Don, I don't understand the difference. Lack of technical english :-P ;-)
Baraking regen / decelerate regen / coasting
For my understanding:
- when I close the throttle just a bit, the bike just rolls. This is coasting, right? So there is no need for a regen off seting.
- when I close throttle more the recuperation starts. As more I close it as harder the bike brakes (due to choose level) and gives back energy to the battery.
Higher regen level always gives you more range and saves brakes even if you coast the most time
But no regen lowers range at all cause you need to pull brakes in case.
Or do I get something wrong?
With Zeros you get regen also when braking, in addition to when you shut the throttle. As an example: I have my Zero set up for maximum regen when the brake lever is touched and no regen when the throttle is closed. That way I don't need as much force on the brakes when coming to a stop, but I also don't have to fight the regen when coasting down a moderate hill.
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Higher regen level always gives you more range and saves brakes even if you coast the most time
But no regen lowers range at all cause you need to pull brakes in case.
Or do I get something wrong?
You get MUCH better range on the freeway with very little or no deceleration regen at all. The regen slows the bike down, which wastes range at higher speeds when compared to coasting. However, things are different when you MUST stop or MUST slow down. Then you want all the regen you can get. So it's best to have no deceleration regen and the max braking regen on the freeway. But the Zeros can do that, the SS9 has no way of doing such so it is best to just keep the regen off while on the freeway to get the best longest coasting instead of wasting power by letting the bike slow down which has to be made up later, such as coasting down hill and then uphill.
Going downhill with regen, at best, will give you back 10% of the energy to get back up the same hill. But you lost more than 50% by letting the bike slow down and that power is needed to get back up the same hill. So you lose a lot more range by deceleration regen by not coasting as well compared to deceleration regen being off.
At slow city speeds, this reverses as then we have too many reason why we MUST stop and MUST slow down, unlike when on the freeway. So now you benefit a lot by having as much deceleration regen as possible, as it also helps save your brakes. Same with braking regen. IMO, with only rare exceptions, braking regen should always be at 100% all the time regardless of speed. But only the Zeros allow the separate settings for braking and deceleration regen.
FWIW, my Tesla also does not have braking regen. But at slow speeds it has so much deceleration regen that it is almost like slamming on the brakes when I let go of the pedal. Because of this, the brake light then comes on without me touching the brake. In the Tesla, as speed increases the regen automatically becomes MUCH less. So there are different ways of doing some of this stuff.
With my two Zeros, I use my custom mode for the freeway, 20% deceleration regen, 100% braking regen. The only reason I keep the deceleration regen at 20% is because that bike coasts the same at 20% as off. I cannot notice any difference. The Zeros do NOT coast well even when it's off. The SS9 coasts very with regen all the way off, but not even at the lowest setting.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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thx for explanation.
I guess I'm just to familiar with the handling of my throttle and use coasting and braking automatically that way.
That's why I mentioned the option to coast with just a little a drop of the throttle.
Of course it needs more attention but as soon as you get used to it, it should do the same :-)
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It’s possible to get coasting while having the regen set to high but this requires constant throttle repositioning, and this can get quite tiring in long distance rides. I normally keep regen set to high on the street but turn it off on the highway so I can relax my wrist.
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It looked today like there were as many Energicas as their were BMWs (not that many as they were reducing their inventory while waiting for the 2020 models to arrive) at the BMW shop in Mountain View, CA. Prices ranged from $19,500 to $21,500, with the new SS9 going for the higher prices.
Time to give the forum attachments upgrade a test to see if it will allow me to post four attachments now.
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It looked today like there were as many Energicas as their were BMWs
I am not surprised as Lawrence (the guy who picked up my SS9 from Auburn) told me that they were about to receive a bunch of new Energicas from Italy which would keep them very busy in Redwood City to get them ready for the dealers.
They raised the price on the 2020 Esse Esse 9 since I bought mine a couple of months ago? If that's the case, I timed it right. IIRC, the SS9 was their cheapest model and the Ego was the most expensive.
-Don- Reno, NV
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It looked today like there were as many Energicas as their were BMWs
I am not surprised as Lawrence (the guy who picked up my SS9 from Auburn) told me that they were about to receive a bunch of new Energicas from Italy which would keep them very busy in Redwood City to get them ready for the dealers.
They raised the price on the 2020 Esse Esse 9 since I bought mine a couple of months ago? If that's the case, I timed it right. IIRC, the SS9 was their cheapest model and the Ego was the most expensive.
-Don- Reno, NV
My guess that is because the Egos were 2019 models and the SS9s 2020 bikes. It has been my observation that the previous year models drop several thousand dollars when the next year's bikes arrive. That was certainly true in 2018 when the 2017 models were priced around $17K, after having been in the $23K range when they first came out the year before.
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Those are very pretty!
I've seen five (if I'm counting right) Zeros sold at the San Jose BMW over the last month.
Do you like the Mountain View dealer for BMW stuff? Do they do loaner bikes, too? It's interesting one is paired with Zero and the other is paired with Energica ^-^
-Crissa
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Those are very pretty!
I've seen five (if I'm counting right) Zeros sold at the San Jose BMW over the last month.
Do you like the Mountain View dealer for BMW stuff? Do they do loaner bikes, too? It's interesting one is paired with Zero and the other is paired with Energica ^-^
-Crissa
I have been a customer of the Mountain View dealership for over 30 years. I have always been happy with the shop, with my only complaint being that they continually change shop technicians, possibility because the cost of living in the area is so high that they can't pay enough to keep them around once they gain shop experience and find a better job working at a major brand car dealer.
They have always offered loaner bikes for as long as I have been going there. Most of the loaner bike action occurs during the week when people drop off their bikes, pick up a loaner, to go work and bring it back at the end of the day, after their bike has been serviced. Since I am retired, I always visit the shop on a Saturday when the traffic is much lighter and will just stick around if my bike is being serviced, and/or walk around the nice neighborhood between the shop and the Mountain View shopping center, located about a mile to the west.
My recollection is that Calmoto was contacted by Zero a few years ago but they declined to become a dealer because they didn't want to service and repair electric motorcycles. They wanted Zero to do repairs at their factory. And of course, Zero wasn't going to agree to that. But when Energica came along, they offered to perform any power train servicing at their nearby maintenance facility, which meant that Calmoto only had to sell the bikes and accessories and didn't have to spend any money training their technicians to work on the bikes - only to have them leave and head for the local Tesla dealer once they gained enough experience working the EVs. At least that is the story that I heard, which makes sense to me.
I might add that Calmoto first got a sour taste of electric motorcycles in 2009 when Brammo showed up with a couple of pre-production Enertias and let the shop play with them for a weekend. Both bikes died and no one, including the Brammo rep, could get them going again. So that really put end to that idea and I continued to hear that story for the next five years. ::)
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There used to be another shop that did Zeros up there... Mission up in Daly City. According to my bike's keychain, that's where it was serviced. They're closed now, though.
The whole BMW experience felt alot like getting my mom's Lexus serviced while she had one. They're really classy. Loaner bikes! Like wow. I wonder if the San Jose shop has an easier time since south bay housing is slightly better than peninsula. I know over here in Santa Cruz I'm playing like a hundred and eighty dollars an hour for a mechanic, which is why we went to Jim's for as long as we could. But he doesn't do new bikes or loaners ^-^
I was exiled to Sunnyvale for almost a decade so I knew both areas enough that I know the best places to get lunch up there.
-Crissa
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There used to be another shop that did Zeros up there... Mission up in Daly City. According to my bike's keychain, that's where it was serviced. They're closed now, though.
The whole BMW experience felt alot like getting my mom's Lexus serviced while she had one. They're really classy. Loaner bikes! Like wow. I wonder if the San Jose shop has an easier time since south bay housing is slightly better than peninsula. I know over here in Santa Cruz I'm playing like a hundred and eighty dollars an hour for a mechanic, which is why we went to Jim's for as long as we could. But he doesn't do new bikes or loaners ^-^
I was exiled to Sunnyvale for almost a decade so I knew both areas enough that I know the best places to get lunch up there.
-Crissa
I bought my FZ1 in 2002 from the Daly City shop, as well as my 2012 and 2014 Zeros. A couple of years before they closed for one year they said they sold more Zeros than they did Yamahas. Apparently that really pissed off Yamaha and they withdrew their franchise and then the lawyers got involved. Eventually, the lady who owned the multi-brand dealership just got fed up with the motorcycle retail business and the conflicting demands of the different brands and retired. She sold the building to the Dollar Store and that is what is there now. Her experienced Zero staff, including the lady that sold me both of my Zeros, Nancy, the office manager, Theresa, and their experienced Zero technician, then went to work for SF Moto, who are now the only Zero dealer north of San Jose. I bought my 2018 S from SF Moto and had my 600-mile break-in service performed there. I think their labor rates are around $180, too. But if you bought the bike from them I believe you get a 10% discount on the cost of servicing.
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OMG $180 an hour? That makes my wallet cry. Ga is $100 for a really high end dealer.
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OMG $180 an hour? That makes my wallet cry. Ga is $100 for a really high end dealer.
That is cheap for the San Francisco area where the average house (which will be a dump by the standards of most other places) is well more than a million bucks.
BTW, I have done business with both those places, the cycle shop (in the late 1980's) as well as the Dollar store.
-Don- Reno, NV
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I bought my FZ1 in 2002 from the Daly City shop, as well as my 2012 and 2014 Zeros. A couple of years before they closed for one year they said they sold more Zeros than they did Yamahas. Apparently that really pissed off Yamaha and they withdrew their franchise and then the lawyers got involved. Eventually, the lady who owned the multi-brand dealership just got fed up with the motorcycle retail business and the conflicting demands of the different brands and retired. She sold the building to the Dollar Store and that is what is there now. Her experienced Zero staff, including the lady that sold me both of my Zeros, Nancy, the office manager, Theresa, and their experienced Zero technician, then went to work for SF Moto, who are now the only Zero dealer north of San Jose. I bought my 2018 S from SF Moto and had my 600-mile break-in service performed there. I think their labor rates are around $180, too. But if you bought the bike from them I believe you get a 10% discount on the cost of servicing.
I don’t know if they’re too far north (and East) for you but Contra Costa Powersports in Concord is also a Zero dealer.