ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Energica => Topic started by: reini on June 14, 2019, 05:13:09 PM
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I'd like to start a little discussion here. What do you think 2020 will bring for Energica? I keep seeing Energica mentioning a new platform for next year (e.g. https://www.motorcyclenews.com/sport/motogp/motoe-energica-ego-corsa/ (https://www.motorcyclenews.com/sport/motogp/motoe-energica-ego-corsa/)). I'm in the market of buying an Esseesse 9, but my dealer won't get any before July. Should I wait for next year and keep riding my current ICE bike for one more year?
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He is definitely giving away a number of hints as to what they are working on... and it sounds like early next year as a release date.
Well, you could wait or try to get one of the remaining 2018 inventory bikes they seem to still be having (Eva/Ego) at a good price:
https://www.energicamotorusa.com/special-promotions/
I am sure you can get it for less than that if the announcement of the next generation is imminent...
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I would get an Essesse now instead of waiting. There are a lot of threads on this forum about this sort of thing. Next year will always bring new refinements and better capability, sometimes there are big leaps, sometime just small improvements but if you wait for next year you will find it never really comes and before you know it 5+ years have gone by and you are still chasing and waiting on next years improvements. Go buy it now and enjoy. Energica makes awesome bikes, love my Eva 107.
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The other thing about motorcycle updates, new model releases, tires, and various other stuff, is that prices always seem to go up, not down. So if you are happy with the current Energica models and their prices, I would get one now. Besides their platforms have been shown to be reliable and quite functional, which may not be the case with an entirely new platform when it first enters the consumer market. ???
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If they can drop some significant weight with this new battery pack they're teasing I might be on board. ~600 lbs is just a bit much.
If they can also do a design refresh, even more so. I'm not so much a fan of the headlight situation on any of their bikes. If they could borrow the form from the MotoE Ego and integrate headlights into that fairing that'd be sweet. -- I'm not expecting Ducati or MV Augusta but it is Italian...
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Energica are offering 2018 and 2019 demos for good prices, with 2 year warranty. Unless you want new this is interesting I think. #MyElectricDeal(er)
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Even as it stands right now Energica's most modest offering, the SS9, outperforms everything else available right now. It's always wonderful to see improvements, but as it stands right now these bikes are amazing.
Also, I think it's been mentioned before, Brandon (Electric Cowboy) and I have access to some demo fleet EVAs at very attractive prices if you've been on the fence.
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I was a bit confused by Energica’s model year references. From what I read, 2019 Energicas received traction control, cruise control, and improvements to charging speeds.
When I bought mine yesterday, I was told that it’s technically the 2020 models receiving those upgrades (fortunately my SS9 is a 2020 model).
I read that article and although I don’t expect it, it would be nice if there was a way to upgrade the existing bikes to whatever battery/VCU/motor technology will achieve that 125 mile range that’s independent of riding style but I don’t really see how they will achieve that without going to a 20kw battery or larger.
Keeping my eyes peeled for future articles regarding what will probably be 2021 model upgrades.
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Trying to decide if I should purchase a Energica Eva or a Zero SR/F. Test drive on a Ego was not to my liking because of the weight and high CG. Salesman said that the problem is the low bar height on the Ego giving you no leverage when trying to get it off the side stand or drive at low speeds. They are trying to get an Eva for me to drive to see if the riding position and bar height solves the issue. I have driven motorcycles much heavier than the Ego but never felt as out of control at low speeds as I did on the Ego. 2020 Eva and SR/F are within a few hundred dollars of each other. I like the stone quiet ride of the belt drive no gears Zero. However, in a hot climate I am a little worried about the cooling of the motor and controller with just ambient air. The Eva has an oil cooled motor and water cooled inverter which is a better choice. I like the CCS DC charging capability on the Eva vs. the 6 Kw AC charging on the Zero. The Eva has over 100 more pounds of "road hugging weight" than the Zero which is a disadvantage at low speeds in the city but shouldn't be as much of a problem on the highway. Fit and finish is superior on the Energica---way more motorcycle for your hard earned dollars.
So, some of you guys have owned/ridden both. What should I look out for on either bike that would sway my purchase one way or the other. I know there is a new "platform" coming for the Energica line and the only thing I could squeeze out of anyone is that it is maybe a year away but soon. The big change is going to be in battery weight and capacity. Sounds like we are going to get the 20 Kwh race bike battery which is supposed to be lighter than the current battery. looks like the motor and gearbox remain the same. They also said that all motors across the line are the same limited to 150 Kw (200 hp). Software and hardware limits the power output on various models. They also said that even though the new battery could be installed in an existing bike, the change would be cost prohibitive and if I bought an existing bike this close to the new bike release that they would guarantee me a fixed trade in price on the used bike when the new one is released. So what to do?
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Both bikes are very good. At the end of the day, you have to ride them all. For me, it boiled down to the riding position. I found the EsseEsse9 fit me better than either the Eva or the SR/F. I didn't even try the Ego because I knew that riding position was out for me.
As was said so well before...if the current models fill your range/charging needs and the riding position fits you...don't wait. If you need the improvements that are in the pipeline then definitely wait for whenever they make their way down to the production models.
That's the best advice I can offer...only you know your needs and which bike makes you smile more every time you ride it. ;)
On a different note, I've grown to really enjoy the sound the Energica produces while riding. It definitely causes pedestrians to do a double-take when I ride through town.
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I own an Eva 107 and have ridden an SR/F. The biggest difference between them comes down to charging. I have done multi-day trips on a SR charging with 6.3 kW and my Eva with CCS. Will never buy another electric motorcycle without CCS charging. Last year rode over 400 miles in one day on the Blue Ridge Parkway using only CCS charging and not a big deal. Doing that kind of mileage using only L2 charging will take far longer and will not be fun. As far as performance goes the SR/F and the Eva 107 are very close 0-70. Above that the SR/F seemed to fade while the Eva still pulls strong. I think it comes down to how important is fast charging to you.
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I have no experience on a SR/F, but lots on the Energicas. I have driven an Ego for a week and had the same experience as you. The Eva is easier; still a bit sporty position, but better maneuverable. If comfort, control and maneuverability is your thing, you really should try an Esse; drives even more easy than the Eva and devours twisty roads. Trade offs for Esse: 1. you cannot brag about it's being faster 0-60 than the SR/F 2. It corners so well, you scrape off brake pedal (which sits lower than Eva/Ego) easily.
I have never overheated an Energica.
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We test drove both (the SR/F twice) and my wife selected the Eva and I am picking up an Esse Esse 9 next Friday. The Eva is closest to the SR/F sitting position. The Esse Esse 9 is a little more upright. I think you are up near Daytona? We are in Orlando, we can always meet up and let you check out the Eva. The 2020 Eva 107 is more powerful, but the ergonomics are identical to our Eva 80.
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Curious, does anyone know any details about the 20kWh battery Energica uses in their MotoE race bikes? Reportedly that battery may be the basis for their next gen of street bikes, and is much lighter in weight.
I'm assuming it's still liquid-cooled; what is the chemistry? AFAIU, a major weight saving would be difficult without switching from the current LiFePO4 to something else.
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wavelet, The battery on the Energica's is not liquid cooled. It is air cooled and there are channels through the center of the battery to help with cooling. If you are riding in air temperatures in the 90's and doing multiple CCS charging you will heat the battery up and your charging speed will slow down. Performance never seemed to be effected though.
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Curious, does anyone know any details about the 20kWh battery Energica uses in their MotoE race bikes? Reportedly that battery may be the basis for their next gen of street bikes, and is much lighter in weight.
I'm assuming it's still liquid-cooled; what is the chemistry? AFAIU, a major weight saving would be difficult without switching from the current LiFePO4 to something else.
I think I read somewhere that the race bikes don't have the metal cases around the battery pack but rather just a plastic package (which would not be suitable for the street). This is where they lose weight for the battery.
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The battery is lighter because they took the safety metal cage off from it and used the extra space to add more battery. These are Samsung SDI batteries. They come in set sizes and you build them up to the capacity you need. Samsung sells these for automotive and motorcycle uses. I believe, but I could be wrong, that Harley is using the same brand batteries in their LiveWire bike.
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I would get an Essesse now instead of waiting. There are a lot of threads on this forum about this sort of thing. Next year will always bring new refinements and better capability, sometimes there are big leaps, sometime just small improvements but if you wait for next year you will find it never really comes and before you know it 5+ years have gone by and you are still chasing and waiting on next years improvements. Go buy it now and enjoy. Energica makes awesome bikes, love my Eva 107.
Yep. The very best time to buy will be a few years after we're dead!
-Don- Reno, NV
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Translated Italian article with spy shots of the new platform. (https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.moto.it%2Felettrico%2Fmoto%2Fenergica-novita-per-ego-e-esseesse9-foto-spia.html)
(https://img1.stcrm.it/images/20022076/1000x/20190906-150555129-1897.jpg)
(https://img2.stcrm.it/images/20022087/HOR_WIDE/1000x/energica-spy-shots215.jpg)
(https://img3.stcrm.it/images/20022078/1000x/20190906-150621144-2846.jpg)
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I hope Energica comes up with a better paint job. That one looks like a WWI naval ship dazzle camouflage design. ;) Do paint jobs like that really help to hide the new models? ::) Why not just hang a sign on the bike saying new 2020 Energica, take your spy photo now. ;D
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The battery cooling "fins" definitely look different from the current models. Maybe this is the rumored 20kwh battery. Also, seeing the Esse Esse 9 wheelieing has me wondering if they're dropping the 107kw motor in it instead of the current 80kw motor.
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I wonder if they will drop the Eva and just keep the Esse? I think the Esse is the comfort winner and just not enough difference in the two really.
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The battery cooling "fins" definitely look different from the current models. Maybe this is the rumored 20kwh battery. Also, seeing the Esse Esse 9 wheelieing has me wondering if they're dropping the 107kw motor in it instead of the current 80kw motor.
You can't get it up?
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I wonder if they will drop the Eva and just keep the Esse? I think the Esse is the comfort winner and just not enough difference in the two really.
I've no idea how many Energica sell of each model, but was also thinking it might not make sense for them to have two naked street models.
Maybe the new battery, if indeed it's 20kWh, might allow a half-faired sport-tourer that still has decent range.
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The battery cooling "fins" definitely look different from the current models. Maybe this is the rumored 20kwh battery. Also, seeing the Esse Esse 9 wheelieing has me wondering if they're dropping the 107kw motor in it instead of the current 80kw motor.
You can't get it up?
I thought it was pretty difficult(though not impossible) to wheelie most electric bikes, given there's no clutch to dump.
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Exciting preview at the 2020 Ego with Nico Rosberg: https://youtu.be/GmXdb0qlV2A (https://youtu.be/GmXdb0qlV2A)
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Looks like there is a "21." sticker on the battery!
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Looks like there is a "21." sticker on the battery!
So it does. And claimed lower weight... If efficiency is the same (and given a faired bike with very similar-looking aerodynamics, don't see why it would be worse), the range should be at least ~70% more... Sounds promising!
Looking forward to seeing actual road tests, and hoping they also make a sport-tourer with with this battery with less agressive riding posture.
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So it does. And claimed lower weight... If efficiency is the same (and given a faired bike with very similar-looking aerodynamics, don't see why it would be worse), the range should be at least ~70% more... Sounds promising!
Looking forward to seeing actual road tests, and hoping they also make a sport-tourer with with this battery with less agressive riding posture.
And perhaps the larger battery will be able to charge at around 50KW from CCS. If so, I will probably have another new bike next year!
-Don- Reno, NV
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So it does. And claimed lower weight... If efficiency is the same (and given a faired bike with very similar-looking aerodynamics, don't see why it would be worse), the range should be at least ~70% more... Sounds promising!
Looking forward to seeing actual road tests, and hoping they also make a sport-tourer with with this battery with less agressive riding posture.
Do you mean different than the SS9?
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I think it would be safe to assume the SS9 will also have the same battery. I wonder if we'll get an option to buy this new 21 kWh battery and retrofit it to our bikes.
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I believe Energica has said before that while they'll try to make any future battery developments an upgrade for existing models they weren't going to guarantee it. If I recall correctly, they said it would probably be more cost effective to just get one of the new models since the bulk of the cost of our bikes is the battery and associated electronics (which would also need to be swapped out if you dropped in a newer battery).
As always I claim no definitive answer here...just what I seem to remember reading elsewhere.
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You're probably right to assume it'd be way more cost effective to just buy a new bike, especially since a new inverter will also be needed to deliver more power.
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I doubt it. Do you know what sort of monstrous overkill the Rinehart is?
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You're probably right to assume it'd be way more cost effective to just buy a new bike, especially since a new inverter will also be needed to deliver more power.
Why deliver more power just because the battery has more capacity? The idea of a larger battery is mainly to increase range, not performance.
-Don- Reno, NV
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enjoy, new 2020 EGO :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmXdb0qlV2A
Giacomo
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So it does. And claimed lower weight... If efficiency is the same (and given a faired bike with very similar-looking aerodynamics, don't see why it would be worse), the range should be at least ~70% more... Sounds promising!
Looking forward to seeing actual road tests, and hoping they also make a sport-tourer with with this battery with less aggressive riding posture.
Do you mean different than the SS9?
Not necessarily -- just less aggressive than the Ego, but still with fairing; Personally, I'm not interested in unfaired (i.e., naked) bikes at all.
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Why deliver more power just because the battery has more capacity? The idea of a larger battery is mainly to increase range, not performance.
-Don- Reno, NV
Bigger battery = more amps = controller can draw more amps = more power delivered
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Bigger battery = more amps = controller can draw more amps = more power delivered
Yep. The inverter may be the bottleneck once a higher amp battery goes in.
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If you want more range and not more speed/toque, then you don't care if the inverter is the bottleneck.
There is a limit to how much can be put to the pavement by that bike, and another limit for what is safe on streets altogether; so changing the controller or inverter would need more than that.
-Crissa
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Bigger battery = more amps = controller can draw more amps = more power delivered
Wrong.
It means more power CAN be delivered.
IOW, it means more amps are available. If you have a billion amp battery and only draw one amp, the power delivered is still one amp times the battery voltage but for a MUCH longer time. Works out much like KWH. Cannot have too much, just do not use it, unless needed. The need does not change with the battery, but with the load.
You can never have too much amperage in a battery. Not for anything. It will not change how much current is being drawn, wattage used stays EXACTLY the same, you simply have more available. Having more KWH available doesn't mean it must be used, Same with SUPPLY amperage. Voltage is different, as too much can destroy stuff. So can too much current form the LOAD, not from what's available in the battery.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Well, more amps available means more damage when there's a short, but everything else, yes.
Change the battery amps, changes the range of the bike. Change the motor/inverter/controller... You're changing the bike performance curve itself. You could do that already, and they do, which is how there's different models.
-Crissa
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Well, more amps available means more damage when there's a short, but everything else, yes.
Use the same fuse as always, and that "problem" is also solved.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Well, more amps available means more damage when there's a short, but everything else, yes.
Use the same fuse as always, and that "problem" is also solved.
Your fuse or breaker needs tobe able to handle the over amperage when it fails; the energy culd exceed the structure of a fuse (I recently had a fuse explode when I accidentally put more than 8x the amperage through it it was supposed to fail at. Whoops.)
But yes ^-^
-Crissa
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Bigger battery = more amps = controller can draw more amps = more power delivered
Wrong.
It means more power CAN be delivered.
I guess this is what MVetter implied, at least I read it that way.
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I guess this is what MVetter implied, at least I read it that way.
It was the "more power delivered" that I disagreed with. There is only more power delivered if it is called for. Not a drop of more power will be delivered even if it's a billion amp battery if the bike hardware is not changed (not counting the small voltage drop possible from acceleration--a higher amp battery won't drop voltage as much).
I want that larger battery. I don't want to change anything else on the bike except even faster charging (possible with a larger battery when CCS is being used) and also the range calibration which range will be almost double at the same battery voltage.
-Don- Reno, NV
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I also WANT that bigger battery. ;)
Sadly I also want to retire in a few years and I can't be buying electric motorcycles every few years.
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Sadly I also want to retire in a few years and I can't be buying electric motorcycles every few years.
How depressing! ;D
-Don- Reno, NV
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Yeah I need to start one of those "buy this for me" funds like the kids do now days.
Side note, I have watched this video a few times and I don't see the "21" sticker. Can someone tell me where it's at on the bike.
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Yeah I need to start one of those "buy this for me" funds like the kids do now days.
Side note, I have watched this video a few times and I don't see the "21" sticker. Can someone tell me where it's at on the bike.
I also didn't see it. I wish somebody would say how many seconds into the video they saw it.
Besides, I don't think Energica has been putting their KWHs on the batteries in the past. Or I have not noticed it on my SS9. That 21 may not even be the KWH. But I hope it is!
-Don- Reno, NV
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(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/74336644_1449191985219013_7877016586899423232_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_oc=AQmW9nQVJmPXkOoEYMWjQlVdcRBOmpoZqSXd02JQzXW2lzpS4AfiPMRqe3wLsXKxCSU&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=baf3daa434296f96209371d0899c4700&oe=5E6301BF)
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Thanks. but now I am curious what it says to the right of the one.
I hope it's something like a ".9 KWH" to the right of that one. :)
-Don- Auburn, CA
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I think we'd all be deliriously happy even if it said .0
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Thanks for the photo skills.
I'd really be deliriously happy if there were no decimal point at all. ;)
I hope I live to see it.
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I sent an email to Energica requesting more information:
Specifications
Range
Expected delivery date
Approximate price
Etc.
I have not yet heard back from them…
Question: is this the new “Ego†model?
The title of the YouTube video calls it an Energica “Missileâ€.
I thought maybe they had a whole new model coming out :-)
JK - I see the label “Ego†on the bike… Maybe “missile†is just a nickname :-)
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missile means rocket in Italian ... :)
Giacomo
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I sent an email to Energica requesting more information:
Specifications
Range
Expected delivery date
Approximate price
Etc.
I have not yet heard back from them…
Question: is this the new “Ego†model?
The title of the YouTube video calls it an Energica “Missileâ€.
I thought maybe they had a whole new model coming out :-)
JK - I see the label “Ego†on the bike… Maybe “missile†is just a nickname :-)
What makes you think they'll privately email you instead of waiting 5 days for EICMA
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Read about the Energica Ego Corsa here (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energica_Ego). 20 KWH battery. But perhaps 21 KWH for 2020. But will it be available for other models?
Looks like it's for their racetrack bike.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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In the video the bike had a rear plate holder and all the lights needed to be street legal.
Sounds like an announcement will be coming shortly.
If they have 21 kWhs AND it's overall lighter then grazies are in order. :)
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missile means rocket in Italian ... :)
Giacomo
It means rocket in English, too. It also means tossed item, as well.
-Crissa
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What makes you think they'll privately email you instead of waiting 5 days for EICMA
Hey Morgan - didn't realize the timing - thought it was already 'unveiled' ;-)
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We're all going to have to take a collective deep breath and wait until next week. :)
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What makes you think they'll privately email you instead of waiting 5 days for EICMA
Hey Morgan - didn't realize the timing - thought it was already 'unveiled' ;-)
How do you think reporters get their questions answered? ^-^
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Press releases and interviews?
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(High pitched voice almost cracking as I hold back tears of joy)
"Nominal?"
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The sticker was right: 21.5 KWhrs! Prices on the homepage seem to be about the same as for the 2019 models...
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21.5kWh battery. Same price. Less weight. Energica knocks it out of the park.
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21.5kWh battery. Same price. Less weight. Energica knocks it out of the park.
A few questions I still have are:
Will it be in all the 2021 models? And can my 11.7 KWH battery changed be changed to this new 21.5 KWH? And are they still rating these batteries in usable capacity? Will it accept a higher CCS charge rate than the current 25KW?
This new battery should be an 84% increase of range and perhaps also 84% more miles per minute of charge.
And should let me get from Auburn to Reno on only home charging.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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Will it be in all the 2021 models? And can my 11.7 KWH battery changed be changed to this new 21.5 KWH? And are they still rating these batteries in usable capacity? Will it accept a higher CCS charge rate than the current 25KW?
According to https://configurator.energicamotor.com/
- Looks like all models will get it (Eva, Ego Esse)
- Usable capacity is 18.9 kWh
- Charge rate seems to be about the same (400km/h CCS and 67km/h else)
- Also it looks like DCFC is now an option for 820 EUR