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Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: rayivers on March 08, 2017, 08:23:06 PM
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I got in an actual ride yesterday (snow & bike upgrades have pretty much shut me down this winter) and everything worked OK, so I'll start posting about the recent round of mods / repairs. Some good news on the bearing front... I finally found a source I trust for quality precision bearings - Ortech (http://www.ortechceramics.com/products/ceramic-bearings/hybrid-ceramic-bearings/hybrid-deep-groove-ball-bearings/6904-hybrid-ceramic-bearings-20x37x9/):
(http://i399.photobucket.com/albums/pp74/rayivers/6904%20%206204%20Bearings%20small.jpg)
These are double-sealed (2RS) hybrid stainless/ceramic ABEC-rated precision bearings, handmade in the USA (6904 '13?-'14 wheel bearing on the left, 6204 '15-'17 wheel / '13?-'17 swingarm bearing on the right). You can pick and choose options at the Ortech site to design your own bearing. I chose full-complement type (max # of balls, no cage) as I wanted the highest load-carrying capacity; this explains the ball-loading notches in the races. These 6904's are ABEC 5 (medium precision) and the 6204's are ABEC 7 (medium-high precision, for less swingarm play). The notches made seal removal easy, so I repacked them with my go-to grease for lo-temp wet conditions (Bel-Ray); I use Silkolene Pro RG2 for everything else.
Wheel bearing replacement ('14 FX, 6904 bearings); Removal was pretty straightforward, as I have a Motion Pro blind bearing removal kit (https://www.motionpro.com/product/08-0292). Pullers like these are the only way I know of to remove wheel bearings without risk of damage to the hub or center spacer; they pull against the small chamfer on the inner-race I.D. Years ago I used to bring my wheels into my ICE dealer for bearing work, but after one wheel came back with a 2mm gap to the center spacer and another was nearly destroyed by a "service manager" with a giant screwdriver & sledge, I decided it was less stressful & cheaper in the long run to get the proper tools and do it myself. The OEM wheel bearings removed were rusty and notchy, but they appeared undamaged and still had a nearly-full grease pack.
Installing the new wheel bearings wasn't as easy (front wheel was OK, rear not so much). All my '14 hubs had issues with brake rotor & sprocket flange alignment - which I finally fixed last month, and will address in another thread at some point - but I didn't realize the bearing pockets were bad too (my '16 FX wheels are much better on all these counts). Precision bearings are not forgiving of alignment problems, and it wasn't until I'd driven the inner LH rear wheel bearing fully into the (tilted-bottom) pocket and then installed the outer bearing on top of it that I knew something wasn't right. Despite carefully driving the outer LH bearing in (with a large socket - I'm working on a press) until it just made contact with the inner one's center race - and then having both bearings turn as one without binding - once the axle was in & tight, both LH bearings bound up. As always, I made sure to drive the RH bearing in until it contacted the center spacer without binding. I was able to free things up on the LH side by using the bearing puller and tapping the center races a bit, but I really wasn't happy doing that (and never needed to before). If I'd left it as it was, the inner LH bearing would've destroyed itself within a few thousand miles, possibly locking up and ruining the pocket as well. I installed all bearings with unslotted sides out, for best axial strength & dirt rejection.
Swingarm bearing replacement ('14 FX, 6204 bearings): I needed a large breaker bar to remove the M20 'stub axle' swingarm pivots (impact gun couldn't budge them). Both bearings were totally roached (dry, rusty, notchy as hell; I was barely able to rotate them, and bearing corrosion had etched the frame pockets). I believe both bearings had their inner races pulled outward against the SA by stub-axle torque, opening a gap to the bearing seal and letting water in & grease out, eventually destroying the bearings. Once both pivots were out, there was a visible gap from the SA pivot extensions to the bearing races, and an orange wash of rust all round.
After hammering out the OEM bearings with a small sledge & socket (I won't be doing that again), I wanted to find a way to install them perfectly straight to the proper depth without stressing the frame side rails or moving the motor. I came up with the bearing press below, which closely 'cups' the bearing and presses it straight into the frame pocket, pulling against the frame around the bearing-seal holes; when the cup bottoms against the inner frame rail, it's removed & reversed to press the bearing the rest of the way in. It works extremely well, & I'm currently working up an extension & collar to allow it to do bearing removal too. I pressed the LH bearing fully into its frame pocket, then pressed the RH one in incrementally until I was just barely able to get the swingarm in between them (both SA extensions were in intimate contact with the inner races, but exerting barely any pressure on them). No way I was going to leave any gap, like the OEM install. The stub-axle pivots had a few drops of blue Loc-Tite applied & were torqued to 50 ft/lb.
Here's the bearing press, with a 6204 bearing in the 'cup' (RH side). The 51204 thrust bearing and M20 x 1.5 fine-thread bolt let it turn easily & precisely even under heavy loading, and the white PTFE (Teflon) ring gasket protects the frame's powder coat:
(http://i399.photobucket.com/albums/pp74/rayivers/SA%20Bearing%20Press%20small.jpg)
Diagrams:
(http://i399.photobucket.com/albums/pp74/rayivers/Bearing%20Press%20cup%20PB.png)
(http://i399.photobucket.com/albums/pp74/rayivers/Bearing%20Press%20plate%20PB.png)
I realize few Zero owners would be interested in this, but a dealer might - especially one doing a large volume of Zero service (bearing replacement is surely commonplace, and motor-bolt removal is a pain). I'm working one up for the wheel bearings too, using the axle as a puller. It's a whole lot better to press bearings in rather than hammer them, especially ceramic types.
As with any of my posts, if anyone wants to add some or all of this to the wiki manual, please feel free.
Ray
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Ray, thanks for the valuable information.
I had plenty of bearings issues with my 2014 fx rear wheel.
I'm going to save this post, it's too important to pass.
Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
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Thanks, Oded - glad to help. I searched all over the Web for an M20x47 bearing press, but all I could find were pullers and hammer-type seal/bearing drivers (basically steel cylinders). Great idea to make a correct-length spacer ! I think my rear one is about .25mm/.010" too long, which I wish I knew beforehand. I hate installing bearings. :(
Ray
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Terrific research, Ray. I've been using ceramic wheel bearings on my 2014 SR for 6,000 miles now (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=5612.0 (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=5612.0)), but I just purchased what seemed like a good bearing to me, I didn't dive near as deep as you did. Please let us know how it works out for you!
BTW, I haven't had a single problem with my ceramics yet...couldn't be happier. But even the stock bearings gave me 24,000 miles, so it's much too early to draw any conclusions except they didn't suffer from infant mortality.
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Thanks, Doug! My initial impression is that they're quality units and survived my could've-been-better install OK, so hopefully they'll roll tight & true for some time to come. I'll definitely report back once I've got a few miles on 'em.
Ray
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Thanks for your post Ray. Excellent timing for me considering the problems I've had with bearings on my 2014 DS. Much appreciated!
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No problem at all, MB - it was actually your bearing thread that made me realize that now would be a good time for mine. I think you're lucky your bearing didn't lock up at the wrong moment and put you in a world of hurt.
One of the other things I've been working on is fitting '15-'17 big-bearing wheels to earlier Zeros. It's not that difficult on the '14 FX - the front brake caliper would need @ .020"/.5mm removed over a small non-critical area for rotor clearance, otherwise it's just a matter of axle spacers - and the other bikes might be similar. The '15-'17 DS/S/SR all share triple clamps, swingarms, ABS sensors, axles, etc., so it would mainly be a matter of determining brake caliper/rotor spacing for the earlier & later cast wheels. If Zero agrees to give you a later wheel, the DS situation may be nearly identical to the FX; basically, the main issue at both ends is the lack of ABS sensors on the '14's, which requires the use of correct-width substitution spacer(s).
Ray
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This is very helpful, thanks!
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UPDATE: The rear wheel bearings on my 'MX' bike have developed a small amount of rocking play (fronts are still fine). I don't know the bearing mileage offhand, but it's way less than 1,000. I expected the inner LH bearing to die early due to being driven against a crooked seating surface, but I didn't think that would manifest itself for a very long time; I guess rear-wheel impact stress during dirt use is just more than these small bearings can withstand long-term. Now that my '16 wheels are ready that will be my fix, but for 6904-bearing wheel owners I think replacing bearings regularly with quality double-sealed bearings (if you can find them) is probably the most realistic real-world solution.
Ray
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That's great Ray, thanks again!
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10/12/17: The rear wheel rocking play became excessive, so I replaced all three Ortech bearings with generic eBay stainless 6904-2RS bearings (http://www.ebay.com/itm/S6904-2RS-20x37x9mm-ABEC3-Thin-wall-Stainless-Steel-Deep-Groove-Ball-Bearing-/172456511720?hash=item28273588e8:g:f9EAAOSwEzxYXSK~). The Ortechs had @ 780 miles on them.
I think the problem was that both LH bearings were slightly crooked relative to the axle, resulting in greatly accelerated wear. I initially thought this was caused by a poorly-machined hub bearing pocket, but upon removal of the inner bearing I saw a 'wave curl' of aluminum had been scraped up by the bearing edge during insertion and packed itself into the pocket corner on one side, making full / flat insertion impossible. Since the bearing started out crooked this also happened on the opposite side of the bearing during removal, creating a ridge in the pocket wall; I had to drive the inner bearing straight back in nearly all the way, remove the ridge, then carefully drive it back out straight from the other side of the wheel using anti-seize on the pocket walls (the hub aluminum appears to be quite soft - I could easily dent it with a screwdriver tip). The RH bearing was seated properly and seemed fine. Considering the soft hub material and narrow cross-section, these bearings really should be pressed in with a 36.90mm O.D. collar or similar. I cooled all the new bearings to -10F before installation.
The front wheel's Ortech bearings seem okay - a tiny amount of bearing rumble can be heard in the spokes, but there's no play or problems while riding. I took it out yesterday, and the rear end felt more 'planted' and predictable than it had before.
Ray
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Hi Ray,
Are you sure it is not the aluminium spacer being slightly distorted causing premature bearing fail?
I had to replace rear wheel bearings 3 times in 2 months, before realizing it is the spacer.
Machined a new spacer, and ever since no more bearing problem.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171014/6d3a0f9608a59e34f56ccb039c1fccbc.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171014/7d8672b822b187a726c5655a21f3fd9e.jpg)
Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
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Hi Oded,
I'd read your comments in another thread regarding the center bearing spacer, so I examined mine carefully - it had gray stain rings on both ends where it contacted the center bearing races, but both ends were flat & true w/no grooving or deformation. It's a bit too long as I mentioned earlier, so I drove in the RH bearing only until the center race just contacted the spacer, like the OEM install (which lasted > 3,500 miles). Hopefully these new ones will last a while, but we'll see.
Ray
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Bringing this thread back from the dead. Does anyone know if the factory bearings for the newer S/DS wheels have a standard internal clearance spec (C0)? I'm planning a preventative maintenance replacement of the wheel bearings in the next few weeks, and the C3 spec bearings are much easier to find than the C0 bearings (and cheaper).
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Bringing this thread back from the dead. Does anyone know if the factory bearings for the newer S/DS wheels have a standard internal clearance spec (C0)? I'm planning a preventative maintenance replacement of the wheel bearings in the next few weeks, and the C3 spec bearings are much easier to find than the C0 bearings (and cheaper).
I've noticed a rough/rumble on my 16 DSR with 40+k miles on the clock so I'm researching bearing replacements.
Re C rating....
I've found that McMaster Carr offers 4 possible suitable 6204-2RS bearings.
https://www.mcmaster.com/6204-ball-bearings
All but the Stainless Steel are C3 including Precision.
The SS is C0 & its max RPM is 15k which is 1.5x the Precision (the other offerings are even less).
I'm gathering that higher RPM's require a lower C# (Clearance) & likely not a requirement for this application.
McMaster Carr doesn't offer a RS version but it's easy to convert a 2RS bearing into a RS..... https://youtu.be/gCXMICrjKd4
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Bringing this thread back from the dead. Does anyone know if the factory bearings for the newer S/DS wheels have a standard internal clearance spec (C0)? I'm planning a preventative maintenance replacement of the wheel bearings in the next few weeks, and the C3 spec bearings are much easier to find than the C0 bearings (and cheaper).
Here's some bearing info...
Keep in mind that these are 6204-RS which are
(6) Single-Row Deep Groove Ball Bearing,
(2) Light Duty,
(04) 20mm (x 47mm x 14mm),
(RS) Single Sided Sealed,
(& I'm sure C3 & ABEC1).
Unfortunately the 47mm I.D. on the wheel bore limits this size bearing to (2) Light Duty design/constructed.
http://www.gizmology.net/bearings.htm
https://www.bearing-king.co.uk/article/why-are-your-bearings-c3
http://www.ntnamericas.com/en/pdf/2200/brgclear.pdf
https://www.bearing-king.co.uk/article/deep-groove-ball-bearings
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ABEC_scale
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eGyoMuE4gDQ
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I started a thread on Parts, Mods And Hacks that I'll include here to insure Max views/participation but please respond there......
So at 40+k miles it's time to start planning on bearing replacement.
I have a 2003 BMW R1150RT with 144k miles on the original bearings so I'm a bit disappointed.
I'm going to procure new dust seals from the dealer however it looks like there are only 3 (2 for front & 1 for rear).
I assume that the wheel speed sensor contains an O-ring that acts as a seal?
If so, does anyone know it's dimensions?
To remove the bearings will this https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00NIPRNA4/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1 work sufficiently?
If not I'll pick up a puller from Harbor Freight as it's reasonable priced with good reviews.
https://www.harborfreight.com/Slide-Hammer-and-Bearing-Puller-Set-5-Pc-62601.html
I would rather go with the first as it's less expensive & wont take up much space.
What bearing manufactures have you used?
I'll be looking at procurement from reputable sources from reputable manufacturers.
Planing on keeping the bike for awhile & hoping to get higher mileage from the next set so I'm not looking for bargains.
I don't think ceramic is the way to go as the manufacturer (Zero) has limited selection to light duty and I'm not convinced they will last :P
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Isn't a 620x bearing heavier duty than a 630x bearing? It has larger outer diameter for a given inner diameter and larger balls. The larger hollow axles often use lighter duty series at least in "dirt bikes"
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Isn't a 620x bearing heavier duty than a 630x bearing? .............
From the first link I posted at the top of this/page 2. ............
If the first digit is a number, however, it is a metric bearing, and the second digit is the series, which reflects the robustness of the bearing. The series are, from lightest to heaviest:
8 Extra thin section
9 Very thin section
0 Extra light
1 Extra light thrust
2 Light
3 Medium
4 Heavy
Yes, they go in that order. Gotta keep things simple, you know.
http://www.gizmology.net/bearings.htm
A #3 bearing takes a larger bore size that we don't have.
The fact that Zero used a 20mm ID, 47mm OD on the shaft/wheel bore means we are stuck with a #2/Light Duty bearing as there's not enough real estate (bearing area) for a more robust bearing construction.
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Thanks for the correction. A 6304 the medium duty one for a 20mm shaft will need a bigger pocket in the hub. 20x52x15. What do you think would be better, a higher duty and larger hub or a lighter duty double row. I seem to recall ktm dirt bike had a double row 0 or I seemed to recall 00. It may be the sealing. I changed to after a sunday event to take the wheels off and pull what was needed to get the seals out and leave it to dry until Thursday, I got old and stopped entering events but after that excessive maintance never did another wheel bearing.
If the bearing has seals they peel off easy and the bearing can be really packed with waterproof grease.
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Just replaced my OG front wheel bearings with some Timken 6204-2RS C3 bearings I picked up...wow, I didn't know I needed to replace them so badly!!! The low-speed handling is so much improved, it was almost shocking.
The OGs had a small amount of play as-installed on the bike, but when removed I could not tell that they were significantly worn by feel until I removed the rubber seals. 64k miles seems like a fair life cycle :)
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............What do you think would be better, a higher duty and larger hub or a lighter duty double row. I seem to recall ktm dirt bike had a double row 0 or I seemed to recall 00. It may be the sealing.
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Well, I’m not an expert on bearings (hence the solicitation of help from others) ;D
That said, I would lean towards dbl row weaker bearing (4204) https://www.google.com/search?q=4204+bearing+dimensions&rlz=1CDGOYI_enUS829US830&oq=4204+bear&aqs=chrome.2.69i57j0l3.13633j0j4&hl=en-US&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8
If the bearing has seals they peel off easy and the bearing can be really packed with waterproof grease.
Yeah, I had posted a video showing how to pop off a seal in order to turn a dbl seal bearing into a single seal.
Depending on what I find during post-mortem (bearing removal/replacement) , I may come up with a maintenance procedure on the bearings during tire changes.
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Just replaced my OG front wheel bearings .......
What is OG?
Original Goods?
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OriGinal and a reference to Original Ganster, but I like Original Goods :)
Just replaced my OG front wheel bearings .......
What is OG?
Original Goods?
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OG also meant 'Ocean Grown' for outdoor propigation.
Anyhow, doesn't 'light duty' refer to the weight stress placed on the bearings; and a motorcycle is much, much lighter than many industrial uses?
-Crissa
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OG also meant 'Ocean Grown' for outdoor propigation.
Anyhow, doesn't 'light duty' refer to the weight stress placed on the bearings; and a motorcycle is much, much lighter than many industrial uses?
-Crissa
I'm still trying to wrap my head around this bearing situation.
Aparintly my 2003 BMW R1150RT also incorporates (#)2/light bearings on the front wheel yet has 100+k more miles then my 16 DSR Zero and those bearings are just now starting to complain.
My takeaway is to insure the replacement bearings are high quality.
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BUONASERA A TUTT vi scrivo dall'ìItalia io ho una ZERO D 2017 13 kw , ringrazio in anticipo tutti per le notizie che mi avete rivelato, infatti stavo cercando le misure dei cuscinetti per la ruota posteriore che dopo 37000 km ha cominciato a rumoreggiare e a far diminuire l'autonomia del 5 - 10%, credo d'aver capito che sulla moto c' è il cuscinetto 6204 rs, e come voi tutti vorremmo sostituirlo con un più performanti, 20 - 47 - 15 , per cui si può solo inserire uno a doppia sigillature ovvero 2 rs .
non ho capito se i cuscinetti sono 2 o solo 1 ,
certo che rimango molto deluso del materiale utilizzato, io che provengo da un Moto Guzzi Quota 1000 cc venduto con 200000 km sulle spalle , a cui ho solo cambiato olio e filtri e il cardano a 175000 km , problemi ai cuscinetti ma avuti , e si che era una moto molto pesante , almeno e faccio gli scongiuri... l'elettronica funziona bene .
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GOOD MORNING TO ALL I am writing to you from Italy I have a ZERO D 2017 13 kw, I thank everyone in advance for the news you have revealed to me, in fact I was looking for the sizes of the bearings for the rear wheel which after 37000 km started to rumble and make decrease the autonomy by 5 - 10%, I think I understand that on the bike there is the bearing 6204 rs, and as you all would like to replace it with a more performing one, 20 - 47 - 15, so you can only insert one double sealing or 2 rs.
I didn't understand if the bearings are 2 or only 1,
certain that I am very disappointed with the material used, I who come from a 1000 cc Moto Guzzi Quota sold with 200000 km on my shoulders, to which I only changed oil and filters and the cardan shaft at 175000 km, bearing problems but had, and that it was a very heavy motorbike, at least and I am averting ... electronics work well.
(Google Translate)
Did we find a solution?
-Crissa
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GOOD MORNING TO ALL I am writing to you from Italy........
(Google Translate)
Did we find a solution?
-Crissa
Thanks Crissa for the translation.
As previously stated
The fact that Zero used a 20mm ID, 47mm OD on the shaft/wheel bore means we are stuck with a #2/Light Duty bearing as there's not enough real estate (bearing area) for a more robust bearing construction.
And
My takeaway is to insure the replacement bearings are high quality.
https://translate.google.com/
927/5000
Purtroppo dobbiamo usare i cuscinetti 6204 (nessun altro si adatterà).
Ho una BMW R1150RT del 2003 che utilizza questi stessi cuscinetti nella ruota anteriore e che a 230 k miglia (230k km) stanno iniziando ad essere difficili.
Il mio Zero DSR del 2016 ha solo 41k miglia (66k km) e ha cuscinetti ruvidi, quindi penso che Zero non usi cuscinetti di alta qualità come BMW.
Le nostre motociclette Zero hanno due di questi cuscinetti nella ruota anteriore e tre nella ruota posteriore.
(Anche il braccio oscillante utilizza due di questi cuscinetti).
Il mio consiglio è di procurarsi i cuscinetti di ricambio della migliore qualità possibile e speriamo che durino MOLTO più a lungo degli originali.
Assicurarsi inoltre di sostituire le guarnizioni contemporaneamente (acquistare guarnizioni dal proprio rivenditore Zero ma ottenere i cuscinetti da un fornitore di cuscinetti).
Usa questo https://www.af1racing.com/store/Scripts/prodList.asp?idCategory=3105&description=2016 Zero modelli di motociclette per vedere quali sono le parti e la loro posizione
Unfortunately we must use 6204 bearings (no others will fit).
I have a 2003 BMW R1150RT that uses these same bearings in the front wheel & at 143 k miles (230k km) they are just now starting to be rough).
My 2016 Zero DSR has only 41k miles (66k km) and has rough bearing (s) so I’m thinking Zero doesn’t use as high of quality bearings as does BMW.
Our Zero motorcycles have two of these bearings in the front wheel & three in the rear wheel.
(The swing arm also uses two of these bearings).
My advice is to source the best quality replacement bearings possible and hopefully they will last MUCH longer then the originals.
Also make sure to replace the seals at the same time (purchase seals from your Zero dealer but get the bearings from a bearing supplier).
Use this https://www.af1racing.com/store/Scripts/prodList.asp?idCategory=3105&description=2016 Zero Motorcycle Models to see what the parts are & their location.
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alby62,
Quanto ti stringi la cinghia?
Sul mio 06 la tensione è di soli 20-30 kg e la registro al massimo (30 kg).
Il tuo 17 ha la cintura più ampia e una gamma di tensione molto più ampia.
Se si mette in tensione la cinghia vicino al punto più basso, è possibile considerare di rilassare / ridurre la tensione poiché una tensione eccessiva è più dura sui cuscinetti.
Ma sii incurante perché non è buono sulla cintura se la tensione è troppo lenta.
How tight do you run your drivebelt?
On my 06 the tension is only 20-30kg & I adjust it to the maximum(30kg).
Your 17 has the wider belt & a much wider tension range.
If you tension the belt near the thightest, you might consider relaxing/decreasing the tension as excessive tension is harder on bearings.
But be carfure as its not good on the belt if the tension is too loose.
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The swingarm bearings are crunchy and I'm thinking it might be because I did a fair amount of riding in the rain. Thinking about replacing them with stainless steel bearings such as 6204-2RS1 made by SKF. Would that be worth it?
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I just changed my swing arm bearings (at 47,500 miles) as found them to be notchie.
I was not prepared to do this (rear tire & belt change) so ended up with standard USA made as I was rushed.
What I did do was to remove the shields, clean out the grease, & overpack with Aeroshell 14 helicopter grease.
I have a BMW R1150RT as well & heard about guys having good results using this grease on the final drive pivot needle bearings.
Bearings are designed for rotational usage & the pivoting action of motorcycle suspension doesn't allow for adequate lubrication.
Apparently helicopters have a similar situation & this grease is what’s used.
Be VERY careful pressing the new bearings in.
I drove out the old ones & fabricated a puller that consisted of silver soldering on an oversized 3/8” nc nut on a 1/8” plate slightly greater OD then bearing.
The oversized nut fit snugly inside bearing bore (after smoothing out the braze joint).
I should have put a handle on this plate as it spun when used on the new bearings and had to be held to prevent it from turning.
I practiced pressing in the old bearings & all went well until I pressed in the new ones.
The new ones ended up getting cocked in the well & I had a very hard time pulling them in.
Ended up inserting a deep socket in the bearing bore & steering it.
It was not a fun time. Use lube.
Turns out the Chinese OEM bearing's had more of a radius on the edges & I assume that made them less susceptible to binding upon insertion.
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I just changed my swing arm bearings (at 47,500 miles) as found them to be notchie.
I was not prepared to do this (rear tire & belt change) so ended up with standard USA made as I was rushed.
What I did do was to remove the shields, clean out the grease, & overpack with Aeroshell 14 helicopter grease.
I have a BMW R1150RT as well & heard about guys having good results using this grease on the final drive pivot needle bearings.
Bearings are designed for rotational usage & the pivoting action of motorcycle suspension doesn't allow for adequate lubrication.
Apparently helicopters have a similar situation & this grease is what’s used.
Be VERY careful pressing the new bearings in.
I drove out the old ones & fabricated a puller that consisted of silver soldering on an oversized 3/8” nc nut on a 1/8” plate slightly greater OD then bearing.
The oversized nut fit snugly inside bearing bore (after smoothing out the braze joint).
I should have put a handle on this plate as it spun when used on the new bearings and had to be held to prevent it from turning.
I practiced pressing in the old bearings & all went well until I pressed in the new ones.
The new ones ended up getting cocked in the well & I had a very hard time pulling them in.
Ended up inserting a deep socket in the bearing bore & steering it.
It was not a fun time. Use lube.
Turns out the Chinese OEM bearing's had more of a radius on the edges & I assume that made them less susceptible to binding upon insertion.
Thanks for the writeup. I’ll queue this for the unofficial manual, as well as the bearing recommendations above.
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Thanks for the writeup. I’ll queue this for the unofficial manual, as well as the bearing recommendations above.
In a previous post I made a mistake by implying that these bearings are 6240-RS whereas they are “Manufacturer part number is 6204-2RS“.
RS is Single Seal (only one side sealed, the other is unsealed/open) & all 7 bearings on 2015+ (xx) platform use 6204-2RS (both sides are sealed).
Sorry for the confusion.
Use all information I have provided at your own peril.
It was shocking how easily the new bearings became misaligned in the wells.
It’s very easy to damage the soft aluminum frame (a Dremal with a flapping sanding wheel saved me).
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Thanks for the writeup. I’ll queue this for the unofficial manual, as well as the bearing recommendations above.
In a previous post I made a mistake by implying that these bearings are 6240-RS whereas they are “Manufacturer part number is 6204-2RS“.
RS is Single Seal (only one side sealed, the other is unsealed/open) & all 7 bearings on 2015+ (xx) platform use 6204-2RS (both sides are sealed).
Sorry for the confusion.
Use all information I have provided at your own peril.
It was shocking how easily the new bearings became misaligned in the wells.
It’s very easy to damage the soft aluminum frame (a Dremal with a flapping sanding wheel saved me).
Thanks that’s good to know, and I forgot about bearing designator details, too. I’ll try to write that up shortly while this is all fresh.
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Brian,
Sorry to be segmented but a few more details...
6204 is a given & consistent with all manufactures.
The dbl seal designator however doesn’t have an industry standard.
OEM & many other manufactures use 2RS to signify dbl seal.
Note that bearings also come shielded but these are not intended to be subjected to the outdoor conditions that the dbl sealed are intended to handle.
I really think that the point of failure (development of notches in the races) is due to the lack of lubrication.
The manufacture's don’t put much grease in these to begin with & due to the lack of rotational movement, what little grease that is available doesn't get a chance to get redistributed were it’s needed.
It may be a worthwhile endeavor to pack these (swing arm) bearings proactively.
It MIGHT be possible (but tricky) to while still in the frame well.
The swing arm bolt would have to be removed.
A cheep pick https://www.harborfreight.com/mini-pick-and-hook-set-63697.html to (carefully) remove.
Grease needle adapter https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C9BKJA_enUS630US630&hl=en-US&ei=bFkWX7X6IJzP0PEPq62ikA4&q=grease+needle+fitting&oq=grease+needle&gs_lcp=ChNtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1zZXJwEAEYATIFCAAQkQIyAggAMgIIADICCAAyAggAMgIIADICCAAyAggAOgQIABBHOgQIABANOgYIABAHEB46BQgAEM0CUNG1IFjJwCBgztMgaABwAngAgAGsA4gBjA6SAQk0LjQuMi4wLjGYAQCgAQHAAQE&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-serp will allow easy packing of the bearing.
NOTE: Not all greases play nice with each other https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&hl=en-us&q=Can+you+mix+different+greases%3F&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj8pZWvr93qAhWoCTQIHdJxCzkQzmd6BAgMEAw&biw=1261&bih=878&dpr=2 so it’s best to stick with the same grease.
Maybe someone can add what type of grease is in the OEM bearings.
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No worries. It’s a bearing thread. More bearing information is helpful.
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I'm wondering if the issue with my swingarm bearings is a corrosion issue. There is a kind of cogging when spinning them. Good grease should keep them away from oxygen and water but I'm also wondering if stainless steel bearings would help enough to justify the added expense. McMaster has them for $40 each and there are some on Amazon for $20 each but I question the Amazon seller supplier quality. Seems like if you are going through all the trouble of replacing them it probably would make sense to use the best parts available.
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Hi Ray,
Are you sure it is not the aluminium spacer being slightly distorted causing premature bearing fail?
I had to replace rear wheel bearings 3 times in 2 months, before realizing it is the spacer.
Machined a new spacer, and ever since no more bearing problem.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171014/6d3a0f9608a59e34f56ccb039c1fccbc.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171014/7d8672b822b187a726c5655a21f3fd9e.jpg)
Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
Can you tell me the dimensions of this tube?
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wow, this was so long ago.
I don't have the bike for so long.
the photo in this thread have the exact dimensions in milimeters for that reason (written on the paper drawing).
i would use these measurements.
good luck.