ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: BrianTRice@gmail.com on February 21, 2016, 12:26:40 AM
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I'm on a quest this year to tour on a Zero, and stumbled on a Craigslist entry for a used Parabellum windscreen designed for a BMW R1200R (http://parabellum.com/Parabellum-Sport-Shield-for-R1200R-P60.aspx). The mounting required adaptation that still needs improvement but I'm pleased with the first cut, so I'm showing it for reference.
The mounting position is two inches lower than its designed for.
Ergonomically, it's great. I can see over the shield but have a big quiet space at highway speeds.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160220/c5c4e4fe18485eec0792ede321158952.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160220/d17dc807b8d8ea438c4aca994c938a99.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160220/985ea992f9100f24625e6eef622ceefe.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160220/8dcf268d4e3b1f5f3327dad76f535f22.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160220/0e746152fa0448d8853aa4b4d93f0a76.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160220/d2f8fe266e44ffa2b8d3e9a39861c423.jpg)
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Looks nice on it. Will be interesting to see if any reduction in energy consumption on the highway. Definitely nice to have in the rain too.
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I like it, that screen goes on my watch list.
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That looks like the windscreen that I used to have on my 2007 R1200R that my daughter sold to Brian. ;) I am happy to see that you were able to make it fit on your Zero. I hope it isn't too large for your bike, though. ??? Let us know if it actually improves your performance and range. I always felt that it was a bit too large for my BMW.
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I just went to Half Moon Bay and back to Oakland via SF on Highway 1. If I lean forward, I can feel laminar flow effects on my back!
That looks like the windscreen that I used to have on my 2007 R1200R that my daughter sold to Brian. ;) I am happy to see that you were able to make it fit on your Zero. I hope it isn't too large for your bike, though.
Yes, that would be exactly the same. :) I wasn't sure who on the forum she was talking about.
So, Parabellum also makes a naked bike windscreen for the BMW 650 X-Country (http://parabellum.com/PARABELLUM-BMW-650-X-COUNTRY-SPORTTOURING-SHIELD-P68.aspx). I tend to think that'd fit the Zero better, for those interested enough.
Let us know if it actually improves your performance and range. I always felt that it was a bit too large for my BMW.
On the DSR 13.0, I think I would have had an effective 110-120 miles of highway range (varied 55-70mph) from a full charge today (ran it down to 19% over 95 miles and still had an estimated 22 miles of range), but I wasn't focusing on efficiency per se, mainly checking dynamic stability at speed. The top does wobble a bit but I think my next mounting revision (using MRA stalks) could address it.
Everyone keeps asking for mileage improvement measurements from windscreens, and I'm unable to get reliable numbers around here; it's just too damn windy most of the time and I don't have enough free time to go back and forth on a straight clear road while taking a windscreen off and on.
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Do 2 test with it on and off to measure energy efficiency.
Do a constant speed out and back on the highway trying to keep, wind, temperature, SOC the same for both tests.
Then compare Whr/mile
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Do 2 test with it on and off to measure energy efficiency.
Do a constant speed out and back on the highway trying to keep, wind, temperature, SOC the same for both tests.
Then compare Whr/mile
I agree entirely with this procedure; I have not found this convenient at all to do where I am.
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Do 2 test with it on and off to measure energy efficiency.
Do a constant speed out and back on the highway trying to keep, wind, temperature, SOC the same for both tests.
Then compare Whr/mile
I agree entirely with this procedure; I have not found this convenient at all to do where I am.
Yeah, I just read your last post.
I want to do this, but I have not found a windscreen that I like.
I don't want to mess around making and buying brackets.
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I just went to Half Moon Bay and back to Oakland via SF on Highway 1. If I lean forward, I can feel laminar flow effects on my back!
After reviewing California Scientific's page on fairings and windscreens (http://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/Fairing.html), I'll clarify that I did feel back-pressure but did not feel turbulence. I think my best next effort will be to raise the mount by two inches using a bracket, which should allow more air in under the windscreen, and hopefully reduce the back pressure and make the ideal still-air bubble for riding.
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Do 2 test with it on and off to measure energy efficiency.
Do a constant speed out and back on the highway trying to keep, wind, temperature, SOC the same for both tests.
Then compare Whr/mile
I agree entirely with this procedure; I have not found this convenient at all to do where I am.
I tried taking measurements today with the windshield; any highway straight enough here offers traffic distractions from maintaining a stable 70mph (hitting the speed limiter in Eco mode) while checking the Wh/mile readout. I hesitate to make any claims with the measurements jumping around like they did - I only feel confident saying it averaged under 110 Wh/mile, which for the nominal capacity of 11.4kWh on the 16 DSR means over 100 miles of range. That's encouraging!
I need to practice taking an average using the trip meter and the "avg Wh/mile" reading while canceling out the run-up and run-down.
If I can boost that a bit more (certainly I should get a tiny bump by mounting the windscreen higher), or arrange for trip legs at 55mph, it'll be enough range to go for 100 miles per leg with a hopefully one hour downtime using a supercharger, and that'll mean a 350-400 mile per day range without much hassle. This schedule consists of: 8 hours riding in (at least) four stretches, plus 3 hours of charging between the stretches.
The downtime/uptime ratio is relatively fixed; I just need to know what my longest leg can be if I need it.
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A much longer run, nearly an entire charge spent on the highway at 70mph in Eco mode, resulted in an average 120 Wh/mile measurement by the bike. So 110 was optimistic, but I'm hoping for better tests once I've improved the mount.
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I think it looks great Brian. [emoji4] [emoji106]. I've even dropped a line to Parrabellum asking if they plan to make a screen for Zeros. It's just what we need! In the absence of Zero producing an aerodynamic fairing based on Craig's designs of course.
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Wow, that's good for knobby and your trunk.
Did it come with the cutouts or did you do them?
It looks like they perfectly clear the pointy part of the stock tank plastics.
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I think it looks great Brian. [emoji4] [emoji106]. I've even dropped a line to Parrabellum asking if they plan to make a screen for Zeros. It's just what we need! In the absence of Zero producing an aerodynamic fairing based on Craig's designs of course.
Thanks!
I emailed Parabellum about this when I started; they said their local Zero dealer failed to work with them before dropping support, so they don't have a handy way to do a fitting. Someone would have to visit their place near Atlanta, Georgia to work on that.
Wow, that's good for knobby and your trunk.
Did it come with the cutouts or did you do them?
Parabellum's BMW R1200R screen has cutouts for the turn signals, but the Zero's span there is a little shorter. The 650 X-Country version might work better; I should offer the Zero dimensions for comparison.
It looks like they perfectly clear the pointy part of the stock tank plastics.
Now that I'm trying to mount them 3 inches higher as intended, the clearance there is a little small, but yes it seems to work.
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I got this reply from Parrabellum by the way:
Hi Tom;
We are very interested in the exponential progress of electric bikes!
Parabellum killed the electric bikes in Craig Vetter's 2011contest [they wouldn't go the distance back then]
But subsequently Electric Terry added enough extra batteries and chargers to win;
Gas prices have to go back up eventually...
What kind of range do you get per charge?
How significantly improved are the new 2016's?
Is your bike up grade-able?
We need someone to lend us a bike for fairing development.
Thanks for your interest
Charly
********
I haven't replied to Charly yet, but I thought you'd find this interesting. It sounds like they're keen to develop something!
Naughty Terry for adding all those extra batteries! ;-)
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Someone should forward this to Zero. They should be able to arrange a bike for a week or so to be delivered. You'd think.
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This weekend is terribly rainy, so I got to step 2 with the Parabellum: drill holes for MRA's longest stalk mounts at 11 inches. I'll detail the process later but am attaching some photos to illustrate how this gets the screen to clear the headlamp and is just a couple of brackets away from a stable mounting.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160306/41f198b7eaf296c3dcf5427f9e5f59b3.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160306/90111e481090d0ff3e05af3c149beaad.jpg)
Acrylic drilling visuals:
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160306/d5695693247a1fb989626dad6154c09e.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160306/ad0f846da47c851937236ac40a8bf939.jpg)
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Whenever I drill holes in plastic like that, I use a hot punch (applied with a rotating in and out motion) the same size to melt the edges of the hole. That seems to stop cracks from forming, and it thickens the plastic around the hole slightly.
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Whenever I drill holes in plastic like that, I use a hot punch (applied with a rotating in and out motion) the same size to melt the edges of the hole. That seems to stop cracks from forming, and it thickens the plastic around the hole slightly.
That's a good idea; I'll see about it. I have a heat gun with a very narrow nozzle but I doubt I'll get the same effect.
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I got the idea, back in the Seventies, from a motorcycle magazine (Dirt Bike, maybe) as a way to install the then-new plastic aftermarket rear fenders that were just then starting to replace the heavy steel monstrosities. It's always worked well for me, including on plexiglass. You can also use a heated nail. I use a propane torch to heat whatever I'm using, to near but not quite red hot - that tends to burn the plastic.
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I should mention that I used plastic-specific drill bits (http://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/122/2451/=11f0ta7) recommended by Parabellum, and made sure to drill holes progressively from the smallest size up one size increment at a time. So, mostly, I don't expect issues, but a little heat applied would probably help.
I'll try the heat gun first since I can control its temperature and narrow the focus [and mainly because it's already ready to use].
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"I'll try the heat gun first since I can control its temperature and narrow the focus [and mainly because it's already ready to use]."
This is just an educated guess on my part, but I *think* the heat gun would be riskier, because you'd be heating a much larger area uniformly, instead of a thin ridge right around the hole - even with a narrow focus. I'd worry about deforming the area.
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While I may still be fiddling with the mounting of this windshield, even when it's not perfectly positioned, it makes great weather protection.
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I've figured out a workable lower mount that ensures enough air flowing under the windshield to prevent vortex formation. I also transferred the MRA spoiler to make the boundary layer smoother. My test ride was an 80 mile round trip in light rain with some wind, and it performed well. I think the Eco mode 70mph efficiency figure was 125Wh/mile, mostly reading under that.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160309/b097615af878f95582cb6c5e089bfff7.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160309/e0d548d4103a9f7888a32a248d4591e3.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160309/b3f40ab61631b341cbd9a7fabfce88c5.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160309/a6ed6e9992476dbdec3d9e9b2d828b04.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160309/1365c89c8d3058f816e875b064acfb89.jpg)
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I'll describe the shopping list to reproduce this, now that I'm happy with the result. I got lucky here with Richard230's used windshield for $100. Let's call that a donation!
- Parabellum windscreen for BMW R1200R (http://parabellum.com/Parabellum-Sport-Shield-for-R1200R-P60.aspx) or 650 X Country (http://parabellum.com/PARABELLUM-BMW-650-X-COUNTRY-SPORTTOURING-SHIELD-P68.aspx): $260 new.
- Mounting Kit (Long Kit) For MRA Naked Bike Windscreens For Suzuki SV650 (Naked) (http://www.twistedthrottle.com/mounting-kit-long-kit-for-mra-naked-bike-windscreens-for-suzuki-sv650) via Twisted Throttle: $48.50
- Drill Bits for Plastic (http://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/122/2451/=11gvysn), recommended by Parabellum: $58.85.
- 2 Hex Thread Adapter from M6 to M8 (http://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/122/3296/=11gw6f1) for the lower bracket on the Zero headlamp: $12.89 x 2 = $25.78.
- M8 bolts (14mm for 2 for the adapter depth), and nuts and nylon washers: ~$10, hopefully available from a hardware store.
- 2 Brackets with M8 or 3/8" slotted holes: ~$6 from a local hardware store.
- MRA touring X-Screen windshield extension (http://www.twistedthrottle.com/mra-x-creen-add-on-variable-windscreen-spoiler-blade-bolt-on) via Twisted Throttle: $132.95
So, that makes executing this plan run about $540 plus tax, and hopefully much less time than I spent now that there's a plan. I have all the measurements in a notes text file which I could repeat if there's interest. I also have a terrible drawing that started this whole effort.
Of course, many corners can be cut; a cheaper but large windscreen would work, and the spoiler is an investment I'd already made. A plastics shop may be prepared to do the drill work for you, or even shape plastics from scratch, or maybe the Parabellum mount against the handlebars is okay with you. Most of my time was spent figuring out mounting geometry, and I wasted some time and money trying different metal brackets to achieve that goal.
What matters is getting the right aerodynamic effect, which means letting enough air enter between the headlamp and windshield to prevent a turbulent vortex from drawing energy from the bike at speed. What I have right now is tunable and really quiet. I think I could ride all day behind this.
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How tall are you?? I'm 6' and looking at your pics it looks like I would be looking through that Windscreen instead of over it.
It looks nice!
Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk
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Given my current problems with my "new" SR, I think I'll opt for just a Spitfire windshield for it. I know at least one of you has one. How well does it work, and what did you do about the lack of a third mount?
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How tall are you?? I'm 6' and looking at your pics it looks like I would be looking through that Windscreen instead of over it.
It looks nice!
Thanks! I did forget to mention and had thought to: I'm 5'9" with a 32" inseam. I can see over it mainly while seated perfectly upright, but any leaning puts me behind it. The spoiler can add another 2 or 3 inches when extended.
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Installed the windscreen from my 2012 S on my 2014 SR. It's a little beat up, 4 years of weather has left the brackets a little rusty. But it works.
I need to do some more rigorous testing, but seeing noticeable (> 10%) improvements even in city riding (30-40 mph) efficiency (drop from mid 70s Wh/mile mile to mid 60s Wh/mile).
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Here are some profile shots in better light. I just transferred my RiderScan blind spot mirror and am pleased that it's at shoulder height for me, yielding a wide field of view.
I still need to grind the lower bracket mounts to raise the angle a bit. I hope I can eliminate the need for the spoiler once done.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160329/f5de995106f9ba74a9284a74ea7311e0.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160329/edbd86e4e5f68472ebfb4cd4f10b6f71.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160329/1ee93ae89b641791c0854e2ec9767d6a.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160329/4b6730e8effd147befda331caa70cb82.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160329/a6fab894f7e2ee5d2a3e8874188743a9.jpg)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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For what it's worth, it appears that Zero's headlamp is identical to the Yamaha MT-03 headlamp. I'm debating whether to try this third-party headlamp bracket for the forward/lower windshield mount, because the customization of what I have at this point is a lot easier once I get to it:
http://www.digital-speedos.co.uk/brushed-stainless-steel--brackets-and-fork-clamps-for-mt03-headlight-is-not-included-1292-p.asp (http://www.digital-speedos.co.uk/brushed-stainless-steel--brackets-and-fork-clamps-for-mt03-headlight-is-not-included-1292-p.asp)
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Earlier on I did some digging and I believe that the headlight is a ''lsl urban headlight''.
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Earlier on I did some digging and I believe that the headlight is a ''lsl urban headlight''.
Yes, that is the original manufacturer specification. Strangely, I couldn't find brackets for those that were available separately, only in kit form with a headlamp. Also, no brackets were suitable to be mounted in an inverted way for a windshield mount (I am admittedly pushing intended uses pretty strangely).
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Update / long-term report:
I will never use a lesser windscreen than this if I can at all help it. A 400-mile day ride with the Super Charger was very manageable with this and the Corbin seat. The Corbin seat helped me see over the top very easily where my ability to see over with the OEM seat was marginal (unless I removed the spoiler).
I consistently get better mileage than my ride partners at all speeds below 75mph, although trying to get a consistent measurement in consecutive runs by comparison is fraught with statistical noise where I live. I've had 100 mile rides at 60-65 mph, and if the air is clean, a 55mph ride could last 115 miles on my 16 DSR with 13kWh.
The benefit is lost in a heavy headwind, however. I faced heavy 30mph gusts going north on US 101 towards Salinas in the afternoon, and achieved a projected range of 75 miles going at 45mph. It is hard to say whether I would have faired better without the windscreen, but it shows that Terry's Vetter fairing is clearly superior in headwinds.
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I've decided it's time to improve the lower mounts by making them adjustable, and this more or less means getting custom brackets fabricated.
The problem is that headwinds at high speed raise drag too much. Tucking behind this windscreen has a small but less effect - someone can tuck flat on the bike with a much smaller windscreen and get a slightly better effect, I think.
My solution is to allow raising the lower edge of the windscreen, pivoting around the center where the upper mounts meet. This will lower the "angle of attack" of the windscreen and allow more air to flow underneath it. This does mean tucking.
I'm attaching the STL file for the piece I've ordered. They're simple slotted brackets with one fixed hole at the end and fillet corners.
I'll work out a quick release and lock hardware control for them (got candidates, just will take time to confirm the choice), but am hoping I can adjust them quickly while stopped without dismounting to avoid wasting time fiddling with them.
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(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160807/42a567230c2078a01cbfc488a3873c0a.jpg)
Here is it installed with safety adjusting handles from McMaster. I accidentally received the original 300mm length instead of my revised 200mm spec once I realized how the clearance would work towards the forks. So I'll bend what I have and make sure future batches if needed are better shaped.
Only two test rides so far indicate that 70+mph with headwinds are now much smoother although I cannot say yet whether drag has been measurably improved.
The windshield is now higher so I am looking through the spoiler, so hopefully I can ride without the spoiler and still get good air.