ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: codeoptimist on February 11, 2016, 01:27:16 AM
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I've successfully charged my 2015 S a few times at ChargePoint L1 stations with the stock charge cable. Last night, though, I had a different experience: I tried five different chargers in two locations, and every single one gave me a "Ground Fault" error after 2-3 seconds of charging.
Has anyone else experienced this issue with ChargePoint L1?
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Have you managed to charge at home or any other normal power source since? There's a chance your onboard charger has blown. A common symptom is the bike tripping the circuit when you plug it in.
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Have you managed to charge at home or any other normal power source since? There's a chance your onboard charger has blown. A common symptom is the bike tripping the circuit when you plug it in.
I was able to find a normal wall outlet and it charged fine for a few hours. I also plugged in when I arrived home, and have been charging ever since. I was worried about the onboard charger too, but so far it seems like it's just ChargePoint that doesn't like me.
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That makes me wonder if it's the cable.
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no its the chargepoint ground fault tolerance. I get these all the time if I use level 1. Just use the J1772 adapter and it works fine. The charger on the Zero has too much ripple and it upsets the chargepoint stations limits for thinking some little 3 year old is being shocked. its all based on milliamps and what they determined a 3 year old could pull their hand off of if electrocuted. We had a big discussion about this in the Electric Auto Association a few years back. In the end, it was decided it was better to have chargers fault all the time vs risking a small child not having the ability to pull away. The J1772 uses twice the voltage so the amperage is cut in half. Never have a problem with these.
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I had similar occurrences when I first got my 2012 XU. It would charge one time, and not another with the same error message.
This was at the same charge station. Never had the problem with my 2013 though.
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I've been wondering about using the adapter with Chargepoint L-2 stations myself. So I guess I'll be able to charge my 2015 SR at Chargepoint stations, with no issues? I thought the vehicle had to send a signal to the station, and didn't think a simple adapter would handle that...
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I believe the Chargepoint charger he was referring to was a Level II / Level I station. It has a standard J1772 Charge end ( Here in the US. ) with
a door below the screen that opens up to a standard 110 outlet. If not, that is what I was referring to. My understanding of the J1772 adapter from
HollyWood is that it splits the 220 volt from the Chargepoint to 3 C13 ends that fit into the Zero, or, Zero Quick Charger. The Chargepoints here
in Vegas seem to run between 5 KW, and, 7 KW through the J1772. Probably 3 cords of 20 amp or less at 120 V.
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I believe the Chargepoint charger he was referring to was a Level II / Level I station. It has a standard J1772 Charge end ( Here in the US. ) with
a door below the screen that opens up to a standard 110 outlet. If not, that is what I was referring to. My understanding of the J1772 adapter from
HollyWood is that it splits the 220 volt from the Chargepoint to 3 C13 ends that fit into the Zero, or, Zero Quick Charger. The Chargepoints here
in Vegas seem to run between 5 KW, and, 7 KW through the J1772. Probably 3 cords of 20 amp or less at 120 V.
I understand. I've never seen a Chargepoint station with the L-1 outlet box, but I know about them. I'm saying that I wasn't sure how useful the J-1772 adapter would be, since I thought the vehicle had to communicate with the L-2 charging station, and I didn't see how a simple splitter could accomplish that. What exactly happens when you remove the J-1772 plug from a Chargepoint station, and plug in the Zero, via the adapter?
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I understand. I've never seen a Chargepoint station with the L-1 outlet box, but I know about them. I'm saying that I wasn't sure how useful the J-1772 adapter would be, since I thought the vehicle had to communicate with the L-2 charging station, and I didn't see how a simple splitter could accomplish that. What exactly happens when you remove the J-1772 plug from a Chargepoint station, and plug in the Zero, via the adapter?
The J1772 connecter is really simple. It just needs to know its plugged in, and it gets a simple square wave signal to turn on. When its on, its just a 240v plug.
So you can emulate that single with a couple parts, and connect the 240v pins to one or more wires to plug in various things. Its super simple.
I just wish some cheap chinese factory would make a ton of the connectors/pins so we can buy them for $10 instead of the $60 or whatever that EV specialty stores charge.
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"The J1772 connecter is really simple. It just needs to know its plugged in, and it gets a simple square wave signal to turn on. When its on, its just a 240v plug.
So you can emulate that single with a couple parts, and connect the 240v pins to one or more wires to plug in various things. Its super simple."
OK, what I'm trying to make sure of, before I invest in one, is that the adapter itself will send that low-voltage signal to the Chargepoint stations without having to do anything else to the bike. I'm guessing that it has a little built-in transformer?
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OK, what I'm trying to make sure of, before I invest in one, is that the adapter itself will send that low-voltage signal to the Chargepoint stations without having to do anything else to the bike. I'm guessing that it has a little built-in transformer?
The vehicle side doesn't directly provide a signal at all, it provides resistance between certain pins that modifies a low voltage signal driven by the EVSE (wall side).
I wrote up a description of the sequence here:
http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=4602.msg32478#msg32478
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It will work perfectly. Harlan Flagg has sold hundreds to Zero owners everywhere. It will come with two extra plugs you can use to add additional Elcon chargers later if you want to charge to the max power of the J station, 6.3 kW!!
It's a very high quality and durable unit versus lots of the cheap J1772 sockets I have used that ended up breaking over time.
If a shop like his didn't exist, you would have to try to make your own and go through a lot of trial and error as you (like I did) buy a cheap one to start and then eventually get a higher quality unit and in the end spend a lot more, and have more headaches crimping in diodes and 1 kohm resistors that break again and again, than if you just get the right thing to start with. As someone who uses this a lot, it's a no brainer to me.
https://hollywoodelectrics.com/product/custom-j1772-adapter/
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Can anyone explain why all this fast charging kit is so expensive? $400 for a cable? $1300 for the Elcon? That's a total of £1200 which in my mind would be expensive at half the price.
I'd be happy to pay about £300 for the two, maybe up to £500 considering they are of high quality and you don't hear any complaints on the forum about either.
I imagine the cost reflects the development and manufacturing costs. Also the fact that there aren't any economies of scale. I'm sure for many the cost is well worth it. Part of my reasoning is that I wouldn't get a lot of use out of it as I mostly commute.
That said, I still want one, or the Diginow when it's ready.
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"The vehicle side doesn't directly provide a signal at all, it provides resistance between certain pins that modifies a low voltage signal driven by the EVSE (wall side)."
Got it - thanks! I definitely want one, but isn't there a J-1772 to single on-board charger plug adapter for about $100? I don't have any external chargers.
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no its the chargepoint ground fault tolerance. I get these all the time if I use level 1. Just use the J1772 adapter and it works fine. The charger on the Zero has too much ripple and it upsets the chargepoint stations limits for thinking some little 3 year old is being shocked. its all based on milliamps and what they determined a 3 year old could pull their hand off of if electrocuted. We had a big discussion about this in the Electric Auto Association a few years back. In the end, it was decided it was better to have chargers fault all the time vs risking a small child not having the ability to pull away. The J1772 uses twice the voltage so the amperage is cut in half. Never have a problem with these.
That's exactly the information I was looking for. Thanks!
isn't there a J-1772 to single on-board charger plug adapter for about $100? I don't have any external chargers.
The cheapest one that I'm aware of is the one that Zero sells: http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=122 (http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=122)
I've looked around and I can't find anything cheaper. If you do, let me know!
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I just posted this on the other thread, so I might as well post it here too. I'm not recommending you do this, but if you have a 2nd charge cord, you can break the ground pin off the plug, and the bike will charge fine again at ChargePoint stations.
Although just using a J1772 adapter is the safer way to go. Especially since at 95% of charge locations, there only is a J1772 available and no regular 110 outlet anyway.
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Can anyone explain why all this fast charging kit is so expensive? $400 for a cable? $1300 for the Elcon? That's a total of £1200 which in my mind would be expensive at half the price.
I'd be happy to pay about £300 for the two, maybe up to £500 considering they are of high quality and you don't hear any complaints on the forum about either.
I imagine the cost reflects the development and manufacturing costs. Also the fact that there aren't any economies of scale. I'm sure for many the cost is well worth it. Part of my reasoning is that I wouldn't get a lot of use out of it as I mostly commute.
That said, I still want one, or the Diginow when it's ready.
$400 for a cable and some plugs? :o
hahahahahaha
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I posted the wrong link, and deleted the post. I'll keep looking for that less expensive J-1772 adapter.
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The cheapest one that I'm aware of is the one that Zero sells: http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=122 (http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=122)
I've looked around and I can't find anything cheaper. If you do, let me know!
The Zero adapter doesn't support EVSE which is something you want to have.
Something like this might be more suitable:
http://modularevpower.com/UL_J1772_to_NEMA_14-50_Adapter_Box_Compact.htm (http://modularevpower.com/UL_J1772_to_NEMA_14-50_Adapter_Box_Compact.htm)
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The Zero adapter doesn't support EVSE which is something you want to have.
Something like this might be more suitable:
http://modularevpower.com/UL_J1772_to_NEMA_14-50_Adapter_Box_Compact.htm (http://modularevpower.com/UL_J1772_to_NEMA_14-50_Adapter_Box_Compact.htm)
Is that why it says the Zero adapter "does not support charging stations that require such authentication"?
Does anyone know if that includes ChargePoint stations?
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I found this $165 adapter that has a pilot signal box, but it says that it is 240VAC only, so I guess that has something to do with the pilot signal.
You would have to terminate a NEMA 5 which is not a big deal if you know how to do it safely.
http://www.tucsonev.com/index.html (http://www.tucsonev.com/index.html)
(http://www.tucsonev.com/images/Adap-with-Pilot-Box.jpg)
Seems like a hassle and still a lot of $$ for a adapter plug, so I would think I would rather have a Charge Tank and charge faster. The website only list 2016 Charge Tank, so I'm wondering if they are compatible with 2015. Why does a charger cost so much?
We could carry a cheater plug so that we don't have to break the ground prong off our charge cables.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/53/Cheater_plug_edited.jpg/120px-Cheater_plug_edited.jpg)
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Is that why it says the Zero adapter "does not support charging stations that require such authentication"?
Does anyone know if that includes ChargePoint stations?
I have used Chargepoint stations successfully with both 110V and 220V with no problems. The authentication has only been an issue with older generation GE Wattstations.
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I have used Chargepoint stations successfully with both 110V and 220V with no problems. The authentication has only been an issue with older generation GE Wattstations.
Thanks for the info!
I went ahead and rolled the dice on the Zero J1772 adapter since it was the easiest to obtain. So far I've charged at two different ChargePoint L2 stations and was able to get an easy 1.4kW from each. :D
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Can anyone explain why all this fast charging kit is so expensive? $400 for a cable?
The plugs are expensive Tom. You are looking at about £60-£70 for a Type 2 socket alone.
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The plugs are expensive Tom. You are looking at about £60-£70 for a Type 2 socket alone.
Yeah, I was surprised how expensive the raw materials are. I considered trying to build one myself but I wouldn't actually save that much versus buying one premade. (And I'm not sure I trust myself to not screw it up.)
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Can anyone explain why all this fast charging kit is so expensive? $400 for a cable?
The plugs are expensive Tom. You are looking at about £60-£70 for a Type 2 socket alone.
that part makes no sense to me. the plastic plug and the pins for it should be the cheapest part...
its a high volume chunk of injection molded plastic....
but once it connects to an EV, its magically an expensive hunk of plastic. Where are all the cheap chinese ones when you need them?
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I have used Chargepoint stations successfully with both 110V and 220V with no problems. The authentication has only been an issue with older generation GE Wattstations.
Thanks for the info!
I went ahead and rolled the dice on the Zero J1772 adapter since it was the easiest to obtain. So far I've charged at two different ChargePoint L2 stations and was able to get an easy 1.4kW from each. :D
Thanks to both of you for that info. We have lots of Chargepoint stations here, so I'll get the Zero plug adapter as well. And thanks, especially, for writing "roll the dice" instead of "pull the trigger"! I'm so tired of reading that obnoxious little meme...
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Thanks to both of you for that info. We have lots of Chargepoint stations here, so I'll get the Zero plug adapter as well. And thanks, especially, for writing "roll the dice" instead of "pull the trigger"! I'm so tired of reading that obnoxious little meme...
No problem. Of course, YMMV. So far ChargePoint seems to be okay, but it's a bit of a risk since any J1772 station that needs EVSE will not work with the Zero adapter. Hopefully all the ChargePoint stations work fine, I'll keep trying 'em. :)
Haha, I originally wrote "pull the trigger" and then revised it because "roll the dice" was a more apt description.
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"So far ChargePoint seems to be okay, but it's a bit of a risk since any J1772 station that needs EVSE will not work with the Zero adapter."
I'm confused by this. "EVSE" is an acronym for "Electric Vehicle Service Equipment" which means a smart charging cable or line voltage charging station. All Chargepoint stations here are the same design. What did you mean by that, exactly?
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I've used the Zero adapter at about 1000 different ChargePoint stations and it works perfect at each and every one. So does the one from Hollywood Electrics that also supports additional Elcons. I have tried some cheap Chinese ones that didn't work reliably and ended up being a waste of money.
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It sounds a bit like the IT revolution to me. Like information, electrons want to be free, but the means of getting them most certainly aren't.