ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Energica => Topic started by: jotjotde on July 26, 2022, 11:29:36 AM
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Hi folks!
This morning I wanted to take my brand new Ribelle to work. After turning the key it read
Undefined fault: Contact Service
Then the screen went black and the bike was off again. >:( >:( >:(
Tried it 5-6 times - same message, the bike remained dead.
On Sunday I AC charged it to 100 % and used it yesterday for commuting to work. Put it into the garage with no error messages and didn't touch it until this morning.
Is there anything I could do besides calling Service and trying to get my blood pressure down?
Thanks and regards,
Jay
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Hi folks!
This morning I wanted to take my brand new Ribelle to work. After turning the key it read
Undefined fault: Contact Service
Then the screen went black and the bike was off again. >:( >:( >:(
Tried it 5-6 times - same message, the bike remained dead.
On Sunday I AC charged it to 100 % and used it yesterday for commuting to work. Put it into the garage with no error messages and didn't touch it until this morning.
Is there anything I could do besides calling Service and trying to get my blood pressure down?
Thanks and regards,
Jay
You can try to reset the Vehicle Control Unit (VCU):
With the bike on press and hold the center mode button and the set button on the back of the left control. Hold these till the screen goes black and the bike will restart.
Let me know if that does anything for you.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Hi Don!
Many thanks for the quick reply! You get 5 stars from me :D
I'm currently at work but I will definitely try this when I'm back home.
I will have to act quick though, because after displaying the message for about 10 sec the bike shuts down again.
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I will have to act quick though, because after displaying the message for about 10 sec the bike shuts down again.
I am not sure if that is good or bad news. The VCU reboot also takes 10 seconds. I just timed it on a watch as I rebooted mine.
But the fact that it takes 10 seconds could also mean the VCU is the issue that can be corrected. Perhaps that 10 seconds with the buttons pressed in (top in front <mode> bottom on back <set>)will be delayed when you press those buttons in.
I am not sure if it will help you or not, but it certainly is worth a try. And it is a procedure all Energica owners should know about anyway. It can clear some weird bugs.
-Don- Reno, NV
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So this is for Energicas what the Ctrl+Alt+Del for Microsoft is? Good to know!
A service guy of my dealer just called and asked for a video which I fortunately made this morning.
He wants to send it to Energica because apparently he is not sure what to do.
I'll keep you posted. Thanks again!
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So this is for Energicas what the Ctrl+Alt+Del for Microsoft is? Good to know!
A service guy of my dealer just called and asked for a video which I fortunately made this morning.
He wants to send it to Energica because apparently he is not sure what to do.
I'll keep you posted. Thanks again!
Yep. Our bikes are just a computer on wheels! And when you have an issue, reboot before trying anything else.
-Don- Reno, NV
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UPDATE (but alas no solution)
Using my lunch break, I went home (by car ::)) and tried the resetting, but to no avail :-\
I think I tried every permutation possible, holding the switces while powering up, while showing the error, after confirming the error, holding it for half a minute, whatever...
Still the bike shuts down after 5 sec (so I was misjudging, saying that period is about 10 sec), after that it's dead.
Connected to a charger, the bike powers up, displays the error message and then black screen again (charging never starts).
Looking into the manual: For the red triangle there are only two reasons named:
- Battery completely drained. Charge the motorcycle as soon as possible.
- There is a fault in the motorcycle. For safety reasons, the input and output power of the battery pack (motor, AC/DC charging deactivated) are physically disconnected in the event of a fault.
'Physically disconnected' makes me thinking 'kill switch'. The safety philosophy behind this is problably: Because anything which is not known could maybe kill someone, a kill switch is activated.
There is a 4-month-old post on Reddit in the Energica group of a guy with exactly the same problem, but unfortunately no update about what went wrong or how the fault was fixed.
Dealer called me just some minutes ago to tell me, he had no gotten any answer of Energica and most probably they will not answer today.
So, I am sitting here at work quitely fuming and thinking about a two-weeks-old 30k premium bike sitting in my garage and not even usable as a reading lamp >:(.
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Give Energica a little time to get back to you, they're in Italy. They have a reputation for being really good at aftersales care, especially when it comes to issues with their bikes.
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UPDATE (but alas no solution)
Using my lunch break, I went home (by car ::) ) and tried the resetting, but to no avail :-\
I think I tried every permutation possible, holding the switces while powering up, while showing the error, after confirming the error, holding it for half a minute, whatever...
Still the bike shuts down after 5 sec (so I was misjudging, saying that period is about 10 sec), after that it's dead.
That's a bummer! When you do find out the cause, be sure to report back here.
-Don- Reno, NV
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If you're in Europe, and it seems like you may be, I would probably have a sense of urgency solely because Italy takes the month of August off. And it's the end of July right now.
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This is an interesting thread to follow. Especially since a Ribelle was one of the top bikes on my list. Forum wisdom here says the bikes are very well put together and after sales support is very good. Nice to know they shut down in August as well.
Hopefully this will get sorted shortly but exactly the kind of thing I was worried about as the nearest dealer would be 4 hours minimum away from me.
Good luck jotjotde! Let us know how it turns out.
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Hopefully this will get sorted shortly but exactly the kind of thing I was worried about as the nearest dealer would be 4 hours minimum away from me.
But I think such issues are rather rare. I have been in enough vehicle forums to realize every vehicle made seems rather unreliable online, regardless of make and model. It's just that in these forums, we mainly hear about problems. Not many get online to say I have owned my (whatever make and model) for 20 years without a single issue.
I have had one issue with my SS9 (https://www.electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=10279.0), the fan for the AC charger crapped out during warranty, plus a weird bug at the same time, but I replaced the fan myself. I often fix stuff myself, even during the warranty periods and at my own cost. That is usually easier than dealing with the shops.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Sorry to hear about the issue.
Can you go to the Vehicle status page and retrieve the fault codes?
Hold the mode switch to the right for ~5 seconds to access the menus
Scroll down to "Service" and then "Vehicle status"
There should be a code at the bottom of the page. Make sure you scroll right as there may be more than 1 code.
This will help me and or your dealer isolate the issue and make suggestions on how to correct it.
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Hi all and thanks for your kind words and participation :-*.
I will surely keep you posted, but up to now, no news.
Because the screen goes black & bike shutdown after 5 seconds displaying the fault message, I cannot access the fault codes. Tried it with the app, but Bluetooth connection takes too long to establish so I cannot see faults there either.
Considering this shutting down with ignition key in ON position, I think it is rather a major software fault. There is no logical reason to shut down the bike that way, regardless how serious a fault might be. So in my eyes that is per se a malfunction.
What really bugs me is that this happened suddenly without obvious cause. It was not after I charged, changed settings, accessed the menu, used the app or something.
Simply rode the bike and switched it off. Next morning - bam!
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Sorry to hear about the issue.
Can you go to the Vehicle status page and retrieve the fault codes?
Hold the mode switch to the right for ~5 seconds to access the menus
Scroll down to "Service" and then "Vehicle status"
There should be a code at the bottom of the page. Make sure you scroll right as there may be more than 1 code.
This will help me and or your dealer isolate the issue and make suggestions on how to correct it.
Hi Demoni, thanks for your help.
Here's a vid showing you that the time span is too short for accessing the fault log. Sorry for the bad quality!
Maybe this helps you: I just found on Reddit (r/EnergicaMotorcycles): A user (u/puppetz91) had the same problem about 4 months ago.
Quote:
'It's an PSU error where power from the battery is not converted correctly to supply the power to the other systems.
They changed a faulty batch of psu before delivery but this did not completely solve the problem, they now updated
the bike with an update that solves the issue.'
End of Quote
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Hopefully this will get sorted shortly but exactly the kind of thing I was worried about as the nearest dealer would be 4 hours minimum away from me.
But I think such issues are rather rare. I have been in enough vehicle forums to realize every vehicle made seems rather unreliable online, regardless of make and model. It's just that in these forums, we mainly hear about problems. Not many get online to say I have owned my (whatever make and model) for 20 years without a single issue.
I have had one issue with my SS9 (https://www.electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=10279.0), the fan for the AC charger crapped out during warranty, plus a weird bug at the same time, but I replaced the fan myself. I often fix stuff myself, even during the warranty periods and at my own cost. That is usually easier than dealing with the shops.
-Don- Reno, NV
Yeah, people are far more likely to talk about something when they're unhappy and are quiet when they're satisfied. I had two issues with my Ribelle, Energica warrantied them asap and I've had no problems since, despite the problems I'm a very happy customer as a result. That's you you build a strong brand Zero.
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Good morning!
The dealer's service guy drove 2.5 hours to my place to successfully revive my Ribelle and now he's on his way back.
Unfortunately he could not pinpoint what went wrong, because there was no fault code. The good side is, that after updating/reloading of the firmware the bike is running again.
They tried to contact an Energica Service representative in Germany and even someone in Italy, but could not reach anyone yet (holidays?). But the service guy assured me, they will discuss with Energica what has been the reason for the fault. So I keep my fingers crossed that this was a once-in-a-million incident.
So, up to now, 5 gold stars for the dealer and their service!
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@Jotjotde, good to see you're mobile again!
So, two days ago your bike borked, and today a guy drove to your place and fixed it. Not bad for the service department.... Any @Zero representatives reading this? :P
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@Jotjotde, good to see you're mobile again!
So, two days ago your bike borked, and today a guy drove to your place and fixed it. Not bad for the service department.... Any @Zero representatives reading this? :P
When Electric Motorsport (note the dead forum directly above the Energica forum) first started selling their GPR-S models via the internet in 2008 they would actually have one of their staff fly across the country to fix problems with their bikes. But by the time that I bought my GPR-S in 2009, they had given up on that plan (way too expensive) and had transitioned to selling their bikes through independent mom and pop brick and mortar retailers and let them deal with warranty claims (or which there were a lot). It wasn't long before they changed their name, followed by giving up on manufacturing bikes in their "factory" (more like a garage) and resorting to selling you-build-it kits. Now, if they are still in business, they likely just sell electrical components, which was originally their core business. And so it goes with underfunded startups that think they can make a killing in the EV marketplace.....
BTW, my comments have nothing to do with Energica, but mentioning Zero did trigger my memory regarding this episode in my EV experience.
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The good side is, that after updating/reloading of the firmware the bike is running again.
I am glad you got that taken care of! So somehow, the software became corrupt. I hope that is something that only very rarely happens.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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The good side is, that after updating/reloading of the firmware the bike is running again.
I am glad you got that taken care of! So somehow, the software became corrupt. I hope that is something that only very rarely happens.
Off-topic: For an engineer dealing with mostly mechanical/physical issues, the sudden non-performance of software (working fine up to that moment) is a bit frightening to me.
As you already said, Don: We are driving computers with some mechanics attached. A typical car consists of approx. 10,000 hardware parts, but today needs about a 100 million lines of software code (source: Volkswagen homepage)! For comparison, the software code for Apollo 11 had several 10,000 lines.
Maybe the recently fired CEO of VW should have read this before bragging the would fix VW's software nightmare in a few weeks :P
Back to topic: I will keep nagging my dealer to get in touch with Energica about the reason for this sudden failure and surely will keep you posted!
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As you already said, Don: We are driving computers with some mechanics attached. A typical car consists of approx. 10,000 hardware parts, but today needs about a 100 million lines of software code (source: Volkswagen homepage)! For comparison, the software code for Apollo 11 had several 10,000 lines.
When software has been working, what is the typical reason that causes the sudden failure?
-Don- Auburn, CA
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As you already said, Don: We are driving computers with some mechanics attached. A typical car consists of approx. 10,000 hardware parts, but today needs about a 100 million lines of software code (source: Volkswagen homepage)! For comparison, the software code for Apollo 11 had several 10,000 lines.
When software has been working, what is the typical reason that causes the sudden failure?
-Don- Auburn, CA
Moisture? A detached wire? Being hit by a cosmic ray? The warranty expired? ;)
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Moisture? A detached wire? Being hit by a cosmic ray? The warranty expired? ;)
I wouldn't think any of those things could corrupt Sofware and then a reload fixes it.
Except for the warranty, of course. They can program in that in advance for it to all fail the day after the warranty expires. ;)
-Don- Auburn, CA
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Well, several reasons can be thought of why it suddenly stops working. Most of the time it’s a component failure before the end of life is reached. Electronics don’t always fail spectacularly in a ball of fire and smoke, sometimes a small part dies slowly and takes other parts with it. Could be that a part of the memory containing the firmware got corrupted, and reflashing solved it for now. Like a ssd getting bad memory cells and reinstalling an os fixes it, until it fails again. It should be logged somewhere, i’d hope.
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Well, several reasons can be thought of why it suddenly stops working. Most of the time it’s a component failure before the end of life is reached.
Then only uploading new software will not fix anything.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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Good morning!
The dealer's service guy drove 2.5 hours to my place to successfully revive my Ribelle and now he's on his way back.
Unfortunately he could not pinpoint what went wrong, because there was no fault code. The good side is, that after updating/reloading of the firmware the bike is running again.
They tried to contact an Energica Service representative in Germany and even someone in Italy, but could not reach anyone yet (holidays?). But the service guy assured me, they will discuss with Energica what has been the reason for the fault. So I keep my fingers crossed that this was a once-in-a-million incident.
So, up to now, 5 gold stars for the dealer and their service!
It's been a while since that incident but could you please describe by which means the tech guy managed to revive your Ribelle? Is it something that can be done by the owner, too, or was it based on special hard- and software?
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It's been a while since that incident but could you please describe by which means the tech guy managed to revive your Ribelle? Is it something that can be done by the owner, too, or was it based on special hard- and software?
Sorry for answering late.
The service guy connected a diagnosis notebook to via OBD, fired up some Energica app and checked for fault messages and odd data.
Because there was nothing to find he re-uploaded / overwrote what I think was the newest available firmware of the bike getting this via web from an Energica server. So that was nothing a typical owner could do.
Since then I drove nearly 10,000 km without any troubles.
For info: I asked my dealer some days ago if Energica ever got back to him regarding this fault and he denied.
Apparently, faults are not further investigated if they are corrected 'easily'.
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Thanks for the description. The idea of hardware being bricked by software that no longer works always gives me the creeps. I'm happy - for you as well as all of us Energica bike owners - to hear that your Ribelle has been running smoothly since then.
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A good diagnostic is to measure the 12VDC at fusebox when bike is depleted to say 20% SOC and again when bike is 100% SOC. Seems plausible early bikes have a tighter tolerance due to batch characteristics for DC/DC converter element that is buried in the pack and firmware parameter change solved the nuisance shut-down.
Glad to hear about the good customer service by Energica.