ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: victor6.7y on December 26, 2020, 12:21:43 AM
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Hi all.
I am new here and since a few month the owner of a new Zero S 14.4 21kW from 2019.
I was wondering what your experiences are with driving 142 km. I manage to overcome it with 80km/h and about 11% left on the battery.
The specification state... that it should be possible to drive 145 km while driving 113km/h....
According to the manual the range depends on
- Speed - 80km/h
- Number of stops - none,
- flattnes of the land - It is the Netherlands... over 145 there was a climb of 50m or so
- smoothness of the pavement - I guess the Netherlands have good pavements
- riding style - Really drove 80km/h for about 95% of the way
- being streamlined - I have a commute screen. and i myself am only 1,75m. I usually lean a bit forward.. not entiererly tucking behind the screen but most of the wind wil only reach my helmet
- reduced cargo - I am about 90 kg including my jacket and all
- weather temperature - about 1 - 5 degrees Celcius
- amount of wind - marginable
- Dryness of the roads - It had rained. When i drove it was not
- tire pressure - Have not checked that in a while. However I am able to ride comfortably
- belt tension - I have tensioned it about 300km ago
- battery balancing - I have left the charger in over night.
This was done 2 times over 2 days. The first time I had 11% of battery left. The second time about 14%.
- What I noticed is that the battery percentage is decreasing quite fast at the start of the trip, and than slows down. Is anyone else noticing this? Does anyone know what the battery percentage indicates? Is it the battery voltage? or the Power capacity that is left?
- Does anyone have experience with the range of the motorcyle when driving 113km/h? I don't think I will make it 141km when driving 113km/h....
- With what speed do you think I could travel 142 km? ;) :D - with the Zero S 14.4kW without powertank ofcourse
I look forward to your reactions.
And advice on how I can find out how fast I can travel 142 km.
With kind regards,
And have a nice christmas eve.
Edit. I have the answer!
It of course depends on the speed with which you drive and the ambient temperature as a quite significant influence.
In the Winter: 107 minutes at 80km/h
In the summer: 95 minutes at 90km/h
See post below for explenations
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Less than 5°C is very cold and temperature has a large effect on range, I go from 80 miles in summer to 70 or less in winter. Any range number that a manufacturer gives will be in the best case scenario (for obvious reasons) so will be more like what you'll achieve at say 20°C.
The state of charge percentage is an average measurement of the battery voltage (100% is just over 116V, 0% is around 95V). Battery voltage doesn't drop in a straight line but typically falls faster the higher the charge is, tapering off as it gets towards the end, so what you're seeing is probably normal.
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When my 2018 S with Power Tank was new, I managed to travel 240 km, at speeds of between 30 and 55 mph, while climbing and descending about 1200 meters of elevation. Two miles before I arrived home my SOC display showed "00". :) The temperature was around 20 degrees C and I was heading into wind for the last 80 km. Of course, I wouldn't try that trip again.
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I was able to go 88 miles in mountainous terrain, usually between 30-40mph, on my S.
But at 110kph I only get about 50 miles range ^-^;
-Crissa
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For my SRF I also have that 14.4kWh battery but way faster charging at 6kW (upgrade ordered to get to 12kW) and I have the following schedule that works for me even in worst case scenarios.
- 50 km between charge stops (100 km with charge tank)
- 45 min riding avoiding highway for that 50 km (double that for charge tank)
- 15 min charging stop getting soc back to 90-95% (remains the same w/ charge tank)
These numbers match reality in cold temperatures riding max 90kmh roads indoor. No highway because you can easily fully drain your battery on higher speeds covering just 100km. Fully charging with 6kW setup still takes 2 hours.
For me charge stops that I have nothing else to do can take 15-20 minutes max. For anything longer I would need something to do at location (eat, visit...). Hence the 15 min stops.
Charging above 95% slows down a lot so doesn't make sense on the road. If you want to ride longer, like 100 km at once you can just recover by stopping for a longer time to recharge. Also if you're reaching your destination and you can charge there you can cover a longer distance.
So I take 1 hour for every 50 km in distance including charging back up. For a full day of riding I can cover 400 km for 8 hours riding and 2 hours charging (in total). Once my extra chargers are installed that will still be 8 hours riding but less charge stops and only 1 hour charging a day.
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Hans, I am impressed. If I got my math right:
You go 50 km and need 15 minutes to re-charge these 50km. 15 minutes on a 6KW charger gives you 1.5 KWh of electricity. You consume on 100 km only 3 KWh. That is stunning.
The 14.4 kWh battery pack gives you 11.4 kWh usable capacity (assuming no degradation). With 3 KWh/100km consumption you get a theoretical range of 380km. This is way off what I get.
I am at 7.7 KWh (SR/S). Just for comparison: I also avoid highway and am on a similar average speed (you are at 67km/h, I am at 68-69 km/h). But I have to admit, that I am driving in the mountains with lots af acceleration and I heaviliy use the brakes.
BTW: I did some tests on consumption at highway speed. This is what I meassured (note: speed is from odometer, consumption from BMS)
100 km/h: 7.5 kWh (152 km range)
120 km/h: 8,9 kWh (128 km range)
140 km/h: 11,7 kWh (97 km range)
I am guessing, that you can get 142 km range with ~110 kmh.
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No you're right looks like I have miscalculated somewhere. I typically arrived with around 75% SOC left. Starting from a 6kW charger having a 2h charge time that would result in 1/4 of 2h so still 30min instead of 15 min.
I have the 6kW charge tank ordered but not yet installed so I was referring to the those numbers also. Maybe I started from the 12kW setup and got confused.
Anyway I typically can cover 200 to 250 km max if I stay away from highways. Not 300+
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Thank you all for your replies.
I am less worried that there is something wrong with my bike now. I will keep on experimenting and update my findings in summer.
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Winter is over ;D It is time to ride again.
I drove about 60km and was able to keep a constant speed for about 95% of the length (on my way there. on my way back it is a bit more complex.)
When I arrived i was able to charge to 100% and drive back.
Way there:
58.7 km, 80 km/h, 33%
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1.77 km/% >> 177 km/ 100 %
Way back:
59.3 km, 80 & 100 km/h, 40%
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9 km, 80 km/h (5.05%)
50.5 km, 100km/h (34.95%)
1.44 km/% >> 144 km / 100 %
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The state of charge (SoC) of your battery is derived from the voltage the pack provides.
The voltage drops slowly but steadily while you take charge from your battery.
But the voltage does not drop in a linear pattern.
Depending on the exact cell chemistry it is usually some kind of "S" pattern. That means, at the beginning (full charge) and at the end (almost empty battery) the voltage drops faster than inbetween.
A good batter management system (BMS) can compensate for that quite nicely.
But there are other factors that have an impact as well.
E.g., when you draw a lot of current from your battery, the voltage will drop as well.
This all needs to be factored into the calculation and can make it somewhat inaccurate.
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Netherlands. Near perfectly flat roads with nice surface, steady speed. In your case the biggest influence on range is probably wind. 20 Km/h wind in the back makes your 80 Km/h wind resistance speed equal 60 Km/h. On the way back it would equal 100 Km/h. Higher wind speed increases fuel usage by factor of 2 (90 uses twice the power of 60) so going in one direction can (in theory) use more than twice the energy than going in the other direction. Therefore you'll have about twice the range in one direction. Of course you'll never have perfect wind, blowing at exactly 20 Km/h all the time, exactly in your back or your front. Wind tends to even out, since you're usually going somewhere and then coming back using similar route. It is still a major influence on range readings, especially if you charge on the way.
Then there are other things affecting your range; temperature, rolling resistance (including weight, tire pressure, belt tension), power usage of bike systems, etc. In your case these are probably not major things, but do contribute to range.
I would charge overnight, in a warm place (so the battery is at peak condition when the trip starts) and aim to keep the range between charging points or home at around 80% of manufacturers official number.
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I think 80% of the specs is a good indication. Would also like to pay 80% of the price then ;)
I drove 40 km today. 4 times with a different speed. The "time delta" is the most interesting. It almost make no difference to drive 100 or 130.
In order to get an indication of my range i will use a capacity of 119AH or 105 AH.
The reason is the specs and measurement when driving my battery dead.
My Zero S has a maximum capacity of 14.4kWh = 14400 Wh >>> 14400Wh / 102V = 141.2 AH.
My Zero S has a nominal capacity of 12.6kWh = 12600 Wh >>> 12600Wh / 102V = 123.5 AH.
I have driven my Zero till it was empty for a check before at that point the BMS logged showed that there was 114AH - 119AH.
If I take 105 AH I should be about save.
Take note that I drove 40 km. But of the 40 km, only 30 km was on a constant or almost constant speed. On the otherhand during the 10 km I had to break and pull-up.
In anycase, these values are not perfect... again, 105AH of the 119 should give a save estimate.
In the images below all values are shown.
My conclusion, for the highway:
- distance < 100km: driving 100km/h should be fine :)
- distance 100km - 150km: try to drive 80km/h ::)
- distance >150km: Drive 80km/h and better find a place for a loooong lunch ;) (and charge for 4 hours :P)
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And some nice graphs, from the table
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I recently had a very similar experience when I was riding another SRF that was suffering from the magic charging issue.
I did a test route of 40 km (42km on display) on the highway going from one exit to another over a distance of 20 km and then turning to cover that same distance in the other direction. Just in case wind or elevation plays a role in the test. It was around 15C outside and I kept it at a steady 100 kmh speed. Both in ECO and Street mode, with or without the use of cruise control. Didn't make any change, I always finished that route with about 44% of battery used. Very consistent in fact.
(https://fotoleer.files.wordpress.com/2021/02/screen-shot-2021-02-21-at-10.24.09.png)
With a full charge that would translate to 42/44*100 = 95 km which is less than what I get on my own. Again I'll retest on same track once mine is back. I did also test how much charge went in the bike and that showed a healthy 12.157 Wh put in from the outlet. I'll check that number also with my own bike. But I was confident that the bike itself didn't have any faults and that it was just caused by software issues.
Upgrading to firmware version 19 proved me right since magic charging went away and I did get a better range number for the exact same track. Just a little colder at 10C instead of 15C. But consumption reduced from 44 to 38% so that translates to a total distance of 42/38*100 = 110 km so a lot closer to what I would expect from my own bike.
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my experience with a similar trip with a 14.4 SR, 135km with 400m total incline, in summer. 20km at 110km/h then 80km/h
downhill no wind : 33% left
uphill with a bind of face wind : 10% left
small details makes a big difference, but having a charge tanks completely removes any range anxiety. I don't really care about range anymore, I just go
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Totally agree on the charge tank. Even with the SRF premium you still reduce charge time to half when adding that charge tank. In 1hour you're full again. Not that you would ride it empty on the road. On the S and DS models I can imagine adding a charge tank makes even more of a difference since the bigger difference in charge speed vs the onboard one.
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A Charge tank would probably be the best solution. However for my situation i will probably only use it seldom.
I usually travel within 100 km from my place. When I do travel further I will probably stay there for halve a day or so (at least 3 to 6 hours). So I decided to buy two quick chargers.
A full charge is now 4 hours. And I am still able to use a common power-plug (In the Netherlands we can usually draw 16A from our power-plugs).
Today I did a few more range tests. It was a bit more windy than the last time.
I wanted to see if my top case (which I need to carry the chargers) would affect my range. I also tested the effect that my hand guards cap and commuter-screen has on the range.
My conclusion, for the highway (yes again):
distance < 100km: driving 100km/h should be fine :)
distance 100km - 150km: try to drive 80km/h ::)
distance >150km: Drive 80km/h and better find a place for a loooong lunch ;) (and charge for 4 hours :P)
* Use the Commuter screen!, Without it will cost you about 16km to 20km range (at least at 100km/h)
* Bringing the top-case does not significantly affect the range.
I will do one last test in the summer. It is said that temperature affects the range significantly.
At the moment it is still a bit coldish with temperatures around 4-5 degree Celsius.
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Hi all.
I am new here and since a few month the owner of a new Zero S 14.4 21kW from 2019.
I was wondering what your experiences are with driving 142 km. I manage to overcome it with 80km/h and about 11% left on the battery.
The specification state... that it should be possible to drive 145 km while driving 113km/h....
According to the manual the range depends on
- Speed - 80km/h
- Number of stops - none,
- flattnes of the land - It is the Netherlands... over 145 there was a climb of 50m or so
- smoothness of the pavement - I guess the Netherlands have good pavements
- riding style - Really drove 80km/h for about 95% of the way
- being streamlined - I have a commute screen. and i myself am only 1,75m. I usually lean a bit forward.. not entiererly tucking behind the screen but most of the wind wil only reach my helmet
- reduced cargo - I am about 90 kg including my jacket and all
- weather temperature - about 1 - 5 degrees Celcius
- amount of wind - marginable
- Dryness of the roads - It had rained. When i drove it was not
- tire pressure - Have not checked that in a while. However I am able to ride comfortably
- belt tension - I have tensioned it about 300km ago
- battery balancing - I have left the charger in over night.
This was done 2 times over 2 days. The first time I had 11% of battery left. The second time about 14%.
- What I noticed is that the battery percentage is decreasing quite fast at the start of the trip, and than slows down. Is anyone else noticing this? Does anyone know what the battery percentage indicates? Is it the battery voltage? or the Power capacity that is left?
- Does anyone have experience with the range of the motorcyle when driving 113km/h? I don't think I will make it 141km when driving 113km/h....
- With what speed do you think I could travel 142 km? ;) :D - with the Zero S 14.4kW without powertank ofcourse
I look forward to your reactions.
And advice on how I can find out how fast I can travel 142 km.
With kind regards,
And have a nice christmas eve.
How long did it take at 80km/h 143/80=1.7825, 1hr 47.25min
At 143/113= 1 30/113 1hr and i don't care anymore
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How long did it take at 80km/h 143/80=1.7825, 1hr 47.25min
At 143/113= 1 30/113 1hr and i don't care anymore
Dear Ayebah,
I did still care, but I also needed the correct info to calculate this properly.
I created an excel, which is able to calculate the time you need to travel a distance based on the speed one is driving and certain range/charge time combination.
In order to do this I needed to know my range at certain speeds. And apparently ambient temperature.
So if you know the range and charge time of a certain speed, it is able to calculate the time it takes to travel different distances.
Important to take note. It assumes you start with a full charge.
The sheet "min per km" is usable for any EV when you fill in the green cells.
To answer this topic. Please have a look at the image in the attachment.
I prefer to only use 105AH on a charge. With this it takes about 9 hours with the OBC.
The range when using 105AH is filled in to the green cells.
When looking at the time it takes to drive 142km.
In the winter it is best to drive 80km/h. Then it will take about 107 minutes.
In the winter it is best to drive 90km/h. Then it will take 95 minutes.
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That chart is so cool! Thanks, victor!
-Crissa