ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Tech => Parts, Mods And Hacks => Topic started by: Electric Cowboy on September 06, 2020, 04:13:50 AM
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We just received a package from Bullet Brake to test out their new parking brake for electric motorcycles. I am excited to test it out and give them and you feedback on it. This is something I have been waiting on for a long time. So excited!
You can see exactly what they sent us in the video below.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUxGlohdirc&feature=youtu.be
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What happened to the video embed? I liked that feature.
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The URL has to be in a particular format. Try getting rid of the &feature=youtu.be at the end or use the URL that you get when you click on the share button under the video.
An interesting solution, a bit expensive though and I'd be worried about someone accidentally bumping the brake lever if I didn't have hand guards. It'll be interesting if you could show how much lever actuation it takes to deactivate it. I'd also like to see if there's any leakage through the valve over time although that's perhaps a difficult thing to test. Maybe pull the lever in only enough that you can't push the bike forward and then leave it sitting for say 8 hours to simulate a work day and then try pushing it again.
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We just received a package from Bullet Brake to test out their new parking brake for electric motorcycles. I am excited to test it out and give them and you feedback on it. This is something I have been waiting on for a long time. So excited!
I was just checking out their website here. (https://www.bulletbrake.com/)
So I check my bikes, it lists two. One for a "2017 Zero ZF 13 SR" and the other for the "2017 ZF 13 SR Modular."
When it comes to Zeros, what do they mean by "modular" ? What is the difference?
-Don- Auburn, CA
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I've only heard the modular term applied to the FX/S models with removable battery packs.
According to AF1 all Zeros except the FX have used the same lever blade since 2015 (2016 for the DSR) and presumably the same master cylinder, so it should work on all of them. Even for older models they still recommend the BB-01 so I guess the banjo bolt has remained the same size.
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I've earn heard the modular term applied to the FX/S models with removable battery packs.
According to AF1 all Zeros except the FX have used the same lever blade since 2015 (2016 for the DSR) and presumably the same master cylinder, so it should work on all of them. Even for older models they still recommend the BB-01 so I guess the banjo bolt has remained the same size.
That's what I thought as well. I wonder if it's a mistake on their website to have "SR Modular".
-Don- Auburn, CA
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What does it do?
-Crissa
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What does it do?
-Crissa
It's a parking brake. And seems to be a very good idea from what I see on their website (https://www.bulletbrake.com/). I will probably buy a few of them for my three electric bikes.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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What does it do?
-Crissa
It's a button activated check valve. You hold the button and then press the brake lever and release it, the valve stops the brake fluid going back into the master cylinder so brake pressure stays. Pressing the brake lever again forces more fluid through the valve and opens it, deactivating the lock.
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Oh, neat!
-Crissa
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Clever and clean design! However, in over 50 years of riding all kinds of bikes I've never needed a parking brake on or had a bike fall. I have had to move from a spot I pulled into several times seeing that it is not stable. It is extremely rare that I've had to put an ICE bike in gear to park. I keep a velcro strap on my dirt bike for the brake lever but not needed it yet.
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Clever and clean design! However, in over 50 years of riding all kinds of bikes I've never needed a parking brake on or had a bike fall. I have had to move from a spot I pulled into several times seeing that it is not stable. It is extremely rare that I've had to put an ICE bike in gear to park. I keep a velcro strap on my dirt bike for the brake lever but not needed it yet.
I have needed such right on my own driveway here. YMMV..
Like they say "it's better to have it and not need it than it is to need it and not have it."
-Don- Auburn, CA
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A fancy Yamaha R1 almost fell on my spouse the other day.
And I totally have needed one... there's a gate on a hill where the road is only ten feet wide. Not enough room to turn around but I have to stop to manipulate the gate.
-Crissa
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I just sent them an E-mail asking what they mean by "Modular" on a bike such as my 2017 Zero SR ZF 13.
When I hear from them, I will post here what they say.
I expect to order three Bullet Brakes, one for each of my electric motorcycles.
BTW, I feel like I just sinned. I came here to Auburn on an ICE motorcycle today, my Moto Guzzi.
I will sin again tomorrow!
I will go back to Reno on my Triumph Trophy (TTSE) tomorrow.
Really, I want to get my TTSE to Reno before it is hit my very cold weather there. The TTSE is the very best cold weather bike there is, IMO.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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That was a fast reply:
From: Mark E Tilton II <mark@bulletbrake.com>
To: Don <dontom3@aol.com>; Office 365 - Info Group <info@bulletbrake.com>
Sent: Thu, Sep 10, 2020 4:42 pm
Subject: Re: Bullet Brake on Zeros
Hi Don,
For purposes of the ZERO, modular refers to the battery being removable/swappable I believe. For purposes of the Bullet Brake, it really means nothing... all ZERO bikes every made use the BB-01 so it really doesn’t matter at all what bike you choose, they all come out to the right product.
We’re glad your coming on board with the Bullet Brake and I ensure you will enjoy it and find a lot of uses for it!
Let me know if you have any other questions and thanks!
Thanks,
Mark E Tilton, II
Managing Partner
Bullet Brake LLC
Mobile: 404.520.0075
www.bulletbrake.com
I just ordered three of them. The Energica uses to same BB-01 as do ALL the Zeros. I ordered two silver and one black:
You sent a payment of $359.85 USD to Bullet Brake LLC
(info@bulletbrake.com)
You sent a payment of $359.85 USD to Bullet Brake LLC.
It may take a few moments for this transaction to appear in your account.
Merchant
Bullet Brake LLC
info@bulletbrake.com
770-796-5050
-Don- Auburn, CA
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Installed this today on my SS9 and on a Zero SR/F. Recorded the process and will make it into a review once we have some footage/feedback testing it out. However we're heading down to Southern California for a week on business and won't be able to do any editing until we get back. But this thing is pretty cool so far.
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That was fast! I just now received my three bullet brakes.
I only have my Zero DS here in Reno, but I will soon install it, probably in the next hour or so.
Comes with a one page instructions. Looks simple enough.
-Don- Reno, NV
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What a hassle it ended up being!
I purchased two silver and one black BB. No difference other than color and I don't see any difference or preference in either color on any of my three electric motorcycles.
Anyway, here is the full story:
I installed the black Bullet Brake (BBB) on my 2017 Zero DS which is the exact same model as in this installation video. (https://www.bulletbrake.com/#training)I followed the instructions exactly, including watching the U-tube on their website. It also comes with a one page instruction sheet. Installation instructions on one side and how to use on the other side of the page. Very simple to follow.
I could not get the BBB to work no matter what! I got all the air out and such & my front brake still worked normally and all. But the BBB did NOTHING at all! If I pushed in the "button", it would not stay in when the front brake level was in. So it was impossible to use. So I go over everything again and again, take the BBB out, start over. Put it back in. A few times, trying to figure out what was wrong. Even if I tried to hold the BBB in after I let go of the front brake, there was NO brake pressure at all, the bike would roll freely no matter what I tried to do.
So I also read the instructions how to use it. I could not see where I was doing anything incorrectly. But I just couldn't give up and decided to do what I didn't want to have to do. Open a 2nd package and try another BB.
So I installed one of the Silver BBs. I didn't do anything differently at all. I installed the SBB exactly the same as I did with the BBB. I expected the same results, but to my BIG surprise, the SBB worked perfectly on the very first try.
In case there is a bad run, I would advise others, for now, to buy the SBB and not the BBB. However, my third one (another SBB) will not be tried for a while as my other two E-motorcycles are in Auburn.
If I had as little trouble on the first as I did with the 2nd, this would have been a 3 minute job. Very easy to install when it works! Other than Zero likes to over torque every bolt and I had to use a socket wrench with a lot of leverage to remove the banjo bolt. Luckily, a socket wrench would fit there, as it was impossible to remove the Zero Banjo bolt with even a large open end (14 MM) wrench. I used so much force to remove the Zero Banjo bolt, I was afraid I was going to crack the front brake master cylinder. But all was fine, even with many Ft-lbs of force.
I think Zero torques bolts at least ten times what they recommend for us! At least my two Zeros seem to be around that on every bolt that I never touched before.
The BBs require a 12 MM OPEN END wrench to install.
Took me more than an hour just from trying to see what I was doing incorrectly which was nothing at all! Perhaps 3 minutes to install the one that works. That simple!
The one SBB I installed works perfectly. If it stays that way, I will be very happy with it.
Looks like I will have to send one back. I will send them a note later.
-Don- Reno, NV
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They sure have fast service, even with night time emails. Here is the reply I just now received:
Hi Don,
My apologies for that experience, that is unusual and far from the norm with our product. If it were anywhere near the Norm, we would not have much of a company or me behind it so rest assured we got you.
That said, tomorrow you will have a new BB-01 in black coming your way, and I will include a prepaid return envelope for the non-functional unit, if that is ok with you.
Again, apologies and we stand 100% behind our product and we have ya covered always.
-Don- Reno, NV
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I think Zero torques bolts at least ten times what they recommend for us! At least my two Zeros seem to be around that on every bolt that I never touched before.
The Zero factory uses a computerized machine that torques each bolt to an exact spec and records the bike+bolt+torque in a log. I'll wager that no bolt has ever come loose on any Zero since they started doing that!
Is there no chance of this system interfering with braking or leaking fluid/air under any conditions?
How much do these cost? Their web site is down right now.
Edit: The site loads, but takes a few minutes for each click. Cost is $120. It's a beautiful idea and implementation, but I think I'd try the rubber band solution first!
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The Zero factory uses a computerized machine that torques each bolt to an exact spec and records the bike+bolt+torque in a log. I'll wager that no bolt has ever come loose on any Zero since they started doing that!
They probably accidentally put the decimal point to ten times the values!
Is there no chance of this system interfering with braking or leaking fluid/air under any conditions?
I doubt there will be any such issues, but only time will tell.
Edit: The site loads, but takes a few minutes for each click. Cost is $120. It's a beautiful idea and implementation, but I think I'd try the rubber band solution first!
I had the price a few messages back, where I said I ordered three for $359.85 USD.
You get what you pay for. I find this setup a lot easier to use. I also have the Zero yellow front brake holds. I won't bother with them any more.
I have not yet road tested my BB yet. But in the garage, it is working perfectly, Locks up the wheel very tightly. The bike won't roll anywhere with it activated and it fully releases when the brake is pressed in again. Very simple to use and it's always in the same place. I won't have to look for it. I will get in the habit of setting it on every time I park, even if on level ground.
-Don- Reno, NV
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My recollection is that hydraulic banjo bolts use a strange open-end wrench that distributes the torque more evenly around the bolt head than does a typical open-end wrench. I have one of those wrenches in my tool box, but I haven't needed to use it since I replaced a rubber brake line with a braided steel line about 15 years ago.
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My recollection is that hydraulic banjo bolts use a strange open-end wrench that distributes the torque more evenly around the bolt head than does a typical open-end wrench. I have one of those wrenches in my tool box, but I haven't needed to use it since I replaced a rubber brake line with a braided steel line about 15 years ago.
Do you mean a flare wrench (https://www.harborfreight.com/sae-double-end-flare-nut-wrench-set-5-pc-68865.html?cid=paid_google|||68865&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=&utm_content=&msclkid=00903f26fc161337ac37604629eaa3d3)?
-Don- Reno, NV
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My recollection is that hydraulic banjo bolts use a strange open-end wrench that distributes the torque more evenly around the bolt head than does a typical open-end wrench. I have one of those wrenches in my tool box, but I haven't needed to use it since I replaced a rubber brake line with a braided steel line about 15 years ago.
Do you mean a flare wrench (https://www.harborfreight.com/sae-double-end-flare-nut-wrench-set-5-pc-68865.html?cid=paid_google|||68865&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=&utm_content=&msclkid=00903f26fc161337ac37604629eaa3d3)?
-Don- Reno, NV
I guess I missed responding to your comment in a timely manner after it was posted. My response would be yes. A flare wrench is what should be used to loosen and tighten brake line fittings.
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I received my replacement Bullet Brake yesterday, but no return envelope. Perhaps they don't want the nonfunctioning one.
I will install the other two today and see how that goes. And then I will send them a note asking if they want me to return the nonfunctioning one.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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I now have a Bullet Brake on all three of my electric motorcycles. On my DS it has passed the real world test. My other two bikes work perfectly but they are in the garage until I ride them again. But I can tell, they all work very well.
What a hassle that the very first one I tried didn't work the other day. All the others worked perfectly and were simple to install. And all worked on the first try.
BTW, if you find you can move the bike at all when the BB is locked, bleed the front brake master cylinder. Only takes a few seconds. The Zero brake bleed screw is about a half inch above the banjo bolt. On the Energica, it is on the opposite side of the brake lever on my SS9, about two inches above of the banjo bolt.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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I find the BB very handy. It can be used as a hill hold, to hold the bike on a hill at a red light so my brake light isn't flashing and I can relax and the bike will hold me just fine. I trust it a lot, when it's once set.
And more importantly, I can now park the bike facing downhill in my driveway to get off the bike to open doors or whatever.
Yeah, I have many small garage door opener remotes, but I have not yet put one on my Energica and set it with my system.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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Now that I have used the BB a lot on three different bikes, I will now give another report here.
I don't know how I got by without the BB in the past! Very handy and for more than parking, such as a hill hold.
However, one mistake is possible. And that is, when it is set, to not release it by pressing in the front brake and trying to take off. When the BB is activated, the bike won't go anywhere, not even with all that torque from the rear wheel. Good thing I am in the habit of very slowing accelerating from a start. The bike instantly lets me know the front brake is locked when there is a little power on the rear wheel. I made that mistake a couple of times and I am now trying to get in the habit of always pressing in the front brake before moving the bike, even if the BB is not set.
Bottom line is that I highly recommend the BB on all electric motorcycles unless you only ride where it is flat and will never need it.
I will consider adding them to my ICE bikes as well. Sometimes it is handy to park bikes on a hill for a short while and want to leave the engine running.
I now often park my electric bikes facing downhill in my driveway. The BB is NOT going to let the bike move an inch! Just do not touch the front brake while it's parked!
-Don- Auburn, CA
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The Bullet Brake I installed last September on my Zero DS failed yesterday. It worked perfectly until then. It has the exact same symptoms as I had in reply number 17 in this thread.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Gosh that sucks for a $120 product. A $0.50 Velcro cable tie is looking pretty good about now?
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Thanks DonTom, Great review' from good to bad to good to bad :o :o
About the torque Zero uses for the bolts, every bolt that I disassemble had some kind of blue lock tight
So for my knowledge that what makes it hard to take off..
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I just installed one of these on my Ribelle last week - so far so good, but if this thing fails, I hope the company stands behind it either by providing a fix or a full refund. This is pretty expensive for what it is, and I justified that cost with the notion that the developer of the product is doing the right thing.
Keep us posted - how they address this will very likely affect my decision around keeping the item and supporting them, or removing it and letting other potential customers know what to expect.
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Gosh that sucks for a $120 product. A $0.50 Velcro cable tie is looking pretty good about now?
No, I like the BB quite a bit better than any other method I have tried. It often gets used as a hill hold at a red light on a hill and other such stuff that would be difficult to do with a cable tie.
I just hope they can make a more reliable version, even if it adds a little cost.
The one I put on my Energica and Zero SR at the same time in September is still doing fine.
-Don- Reno, NV
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They are very easy to deal with. Here are my last couple of emails from them:
-Don-
From: Mark E Tilton II <mark@bulletbrake.com>
Sent: Thu, Jul 29, 2021 11:13 am
Subject: Re: A failure
Hi Don,
Mark E Tilton II mark@bulletbrake.comHide
To Don dontom3@aol.com
Hi Don,
Sorry about that man! Can I send you out a new black BB-01 for your DS? No need to send the others back…
Please confirm address if you would!
Thanks,
Mark E Tilton, II
Managing Partner
Bullet Brake LLC
Thank you! I’m glad you enjoy the Bullet Brake and sorry about the inconvenience to you! Just handed it to the mailman USPS 940011189956181018xxxx
Thanks,
Mark E Tilton, II
Managing Partner
Bullet Brake LLC
Office: 770.796.5050 x501
Mobile: 404.520.0075
www.bulletbrake.com (http://www.bulletbrake.com)
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No, I like the BB quite a bit better than any other method I have tried. It often gets used as a hill hold at a red light on a hill and other such stuff that would be difficult to do with a cable tie.
I like to do that with the foot brake (actually, the only time I'm using it :) )
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They are very easy to deal with. Here are my last couple of emails from them:
Seems like an awesome response - let us know when it arrives and if it addresses the issue.
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Seems like an awesome response - let us know when it arrives and if it addresses the issue.
It arrived today. But I am not sure when I will get a chance to install it. Or even ride a motorcycle. I have never been so busy with various projects as this last week.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Seems like an awesome response - let us know when it arrives and if it addresses the issue.
It arrived today. But I am not sure when I will get a chance to install it. Or even ride a motorcycle. I have never been so busy with various projects as this last week.
-Don- Reno, NV
You must be retired, then. ;D
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You must be retired, then. ;D
Yep. I have been retired since 2014.
It's mainly moving stuff out of the other house keeping me busy. That includes getting a shed built for this place. And other such hassles.
-Don-
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You must be retired, then. ;D
Yep. I have been retired since 2014.
It's mainly moving stuff out of the other house keeping me busy. That includes getting a shed built for this place. And other such hassles.
-Don-
Ah, the joy of no longer having a 8-5 job. Now you can rest and take it easy during the day. ;)
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Ah, the joy of no longer having a 8-5 job. Now you can rest and take it easy during the day. ;)
Yeah, years ago, I hired the just retired General Contractor next door neighbor to do some work on my house in SSF (not far from you). He told me since he retired, he works twice as hard and more hours.
If he wants a break, he should go back to his full time job. ;)
Anyway, installing my new BB is way down by list of priorities at this time.
-Don- Reno, NV
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I just installed one of these on my Ribelle last week - so far so good, but if this thing fails, I hope the company stands behind it either by providing a fix or a full refund. This is pretty expensive for what it is, and I justified that cost with the notion that the developer of the product is doing the right thing.
Keep us posted - how they address this will very likely affect my decision around keeping the item and supporting them, or removing it and letting other potential customers know what to expect.
I just now got around to changing out the defective BB. It only took a few minutes. If I knew that was all the time it would take I would have done it the same day I received it. It's faster to replace than do a change to it from the stock stuff.
The new BB replacement works perfectly. It's now on my Zero DS where the other one stopped working after a lot of use. The little Zero DS (smaller battery) is my most used motorcycle of my ten.
If I were to review the item, they would get 4 out of five stars. It works great and is very useful, but I have seen two failures out of five units, which includes the first one I tried to install, but with their excellent customer service and such a useful product, I would have to give them 4 out of five stars on a review even with what seems like a high failure rate. The failures were at NO cost to me other than time.
-Don- Reno, NV
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The bad news:
I now have had all three BBs fail. The one on my Zero SR failed two days ago.
Now the neutral news:
The failure made me live without it for just two days, What a hassle! I just cannot get by without the BB! Too often I need to park where it is NOT level, such as my driveway here. Steep hill all the way.
Now the good news:
They discovered the exact problem with the seal in the BB and the new ones should not have this issue. Not only that, but they just sent me three new ones for free as my old ones are all of the old version.
Great customer service and I shouldn't have this issue again.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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I really appreciate you chronicling your experience over time. Based on the lack of updates in the past year and a half I assume the new design did indeed fix the failures?
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I really appreciate you chronicling your experience over time. Based on the lack of updates in the past year and a half I assume the new design did indeed fix the failures?
Yes, I have had NO problems at all with the new version and I have four of them in use.
-Don- Reno, NV