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[untuned]

First off, I just want to say that this is a great forum!  I’ve been lurking for a few weeks ever since I acquired a 2014 Zero S, which has been lots of fun so far. 

Unfortunately the onboard charger is dead, and has been for over a year.  The previous owner had bought the Quiq charger and had been using that without issue, which I am using now too, with the drawback that I cannot charge away from home.  I read somewhere here that using the Quiq charger without the onboard charger will not balance the battery, so that got me a little concerned as I do not want to damage or shorten the life of the battery pack.  There are only 10,500 km on the clock.  I am loathe to drop $1200 CAD on a new onboard CALEX charger that could crap out in another 10,000 km (not to mention that I am cheap ).  I have read through several charger threads, but I can’t say I understand what real viable solutions are available.  I am certainly open to DIY, in fact I would prefer it, especially if I could get a faster charger going.  That being said, for the right price, 1.3kw is acceptable for the time being.

Can anyone comment on the reliability of a new OEM (Calex) onboard charger?  Have the earlier problems been sorted? I have seen that folks occasionally sell them on this forum.  Is it possible to balance the battery cells with an aftermarket onboard charger?  I’m still on a steep learning curve for all things electric. 

And if anyone reading this lives in the greater Montreal area, I’d be happy to meet up!

Cheers!

[Shadow]

...Is it possible to balance the battery cells with an aftermarket onboard charger?  I’m still on a steep learning curve for all things electric. 

Battery balancing would be a function of the Battery Management System that is part of each ZForce pack (monolith, powertank, swappable modules). It appears to get triggered above some higher state of charge (90%? from casual observation). There may (or may not?) be some CANbus component to talking with the BMS, as there are CANbus lines that run to the stock onboard charger.

You don't have to use an OEM charger. It is just LiION battery chem and spec sheets do exist for the pouch cells. An example of DIY that I contributed to: Elcon TC HK-H 1800W Charger (on Zero Motorcycles 2013+). More testing and improvements are welcome.

As you guess the onboard charger is lousy value-for-dollar by today's measure. If you are so inclined and capable it is needed to fully document the CANbus messaging on the onboard charger so we can answer those other questions.

[DonTom]

Is it possible to balance the battery cells with an aftermarket onboard charger?  I’m still on a steep learning curve for all things electric. 

What's probably more important than the balancing, is to see if they are balanced! Use the Zero App and see how many MV you are out of balance. That is what really counts! IOW, don't worry about it until you're out of balance. The lower the MV reading, the better. After you get your readings, compare to others here to see if you're more out of balance than most others.

-Don-  Auburn, CA

[NEW2elec]

Hi Untuned, some of this was addressed in this thread.    http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=9053.0

[untuned]

Thank you for the great information! The Elcon TC  charger certainly looks like a great option even if it only outputs 700w from a 110v outlet.

Using the app, the cell balance fluctuates between 3 & 5 while charging; what does that mean? Is that volts or milli volts?

As far as CANbus mapping, I'm clueless. If I knew how to do it, I would certainly try.

[NEW2elec]

The app is in milli volts and yours is in excellent range.  If it's at 15 or greater you might start looking for an issue.
Like Brian said on the other thread the BMS will balance your cells if the charger type can drop the power when "told" to.  The Quiq charger has been doing this for you so good news is so far so good.
Sadly the Elcons that were sold by Hollywood Electrics that had been programed for Zero's charging range are no longer being made (sold).

If your skilled in programing and that sort of thing you could make one but please don't get a "dumb" charger setup as it could over charge the bike.

I can't remember off hand but the Zero charge tank may work with a 2014, I know it won't with my 13 and I know it's pricey but I would go that route over an onboard to get the better charge rate and options in town.  I'm cheap too but seems much more value to me and there are used options on ebay and for sale on here.  Note: a 2017 charge tank was at 3kw and 18,19 were 6kw so price accordingly.

Pure guess work here:
I hope Zero makes the new SRF 3kw onboard charges available for the old bikes.  Even if you could only charge at 1.3 with them off wall outlets they would be running at half capacity and hopefully would last longer.

[DonTom]

Sadly the Elcons that were sold by Hollywood Electrics that had been programed for Zero's charging range are no longer being made (sold).

Not exactly true. See my message (reply  number eight)  here.


-Don-  Auburn, CA

[E-Luke]

Mine died. Two years in. Got an email saying they knew it was a weak point but they weren’t willing to help out/ offer any discount or warranty it. Really stung me and I am not sure I’ll be comfortable with buying another zero because of it...I hope it is rectified, and I’ll do my research, but it left a bitter taste.
 love my 2016 DSR, but having to pay $900 (after labor) for a freaking charging system, was not expected from a bike I bought to have “minimal maintainence” and run cheaply. I know we’re still basically beta testers for the market and tech in general, but at such a steep investment cost (relative to other bikes of this class) I for one wasn’t expecting a charger to crap out.

[Richard230]

Mine died. Two years in. Got an email saying they knew it was a weak point but they weren’t willing to help out/ offer any discount or warranty it. Really stung me and I am not sure I’ll be comfortable with buying another zero because of it...I hope it is rectified, and I’ll do my research, but it left a bitter taste.
 love my 2016 DSR, but having to pay $900 (after labor) for a freaking charging system, was not expected from a bike I bought to have “minimal maintainence” and run cheaply. I know we’re still basically beta testers for the market and tech in general, but at such a steep investment cost (relative to other bikes of this class) I for one wasn’t expecting a charger to crap out.

In Zero's defense (having recently purchased and installed a replacement Zero Calex charger for my daughter's 2014 S) I think you have to lay the blame for the somewhat unreliable Calex charger on the company that designed and manufactured it.  While Zero did select the charger to use in their motorcycles, I am pretty sure that they did not design it or select its components, including whatever it is that is failing after several years of use. In my opinion, Calex should have discounted their new (and hopefully improved) model to Zero's customers who had their original ones fail and ended up purchasing the improved model.

Photo of the new and improved charger attached.

[NEW2elec]

+1 Richard.  I wonder who paid for the new chargers when they died under warranty?  Calex had to have some type of warranty with Zero.

We have to keep in mind this type of equipment was really only used for fork lifts and golf carts for so long and even then likely at a charging corner and not attached to the vehicle exposed to the weather and bumps of street use.  I expect improvements and much better options in the future.
At this point holding off for as long as one can and wait for better options may be best.

[untuned]

There is an OEM charger for sale on this forum, but it is from 2014 FX, so only 650w.  The owner said that the connections are different, etc.  What would it take to make it work on my 2014 S?

[Rugby4life]

Check out my listing in the marketplace.

http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=9219.0

[NEW2elec]

Untuned: I wouldn't go that route, your trying to put a square peg in a round hole. 

Sadly at this point Diginow has dropped making new chargers for Zero and that isn't a good sign for future servicing from them. 
I wish this wasn't so, but those chargers are now buy at your own risk.  They might have spare parts to help you later and they may not.
I would say get a charge tank from Zero to have some level of service backing.

[NoMoreIdeas]

Untuned: I wouldn't go that route, your trying to put a square peg in a round hole. 

Sadly at this point Diginow has dropped making new chargers for Zero and that isn't a good sign for future servicing from them. 
I wish this wasn't so, but those chargers are now buy at your own risk.  They might have spare parts to help you later and they may not.
I would say get a charge tank from Zero to have some level of service backing.

Diginow never actually made the charger, they are off the shelf TC chargers and can easily be replaced by ordering through a handful of vendors. Diginow did make the 'brain box' though and assembled all of that into an easy to bolt on kit. I'm sure if you reached out to them they would help you fix / replace the interface module if that were to go bad. Worse case scenario, you could order a thunderstruck evcc to control the chargers, or theres even someone who wrote code for an arduino and a canbus shield to control the tc chargers. You would lose communication with the BMS so you'd just need to be more careful.

Long story short your not dead in the water, there are plenty of options if things go wrong with a used Diginow setup.

[untuned]

Thank you for all your input.  Though the functionality of the Diginow is very interesting, especially that it installs in the same place as the OEM charger, I am deterred by the cost.  I cannot afford to put that much into a charger, and at this point, I don't need to have that much charging capacity.  That's why the OEM 650w charger is interesting, because the price is right, even if the capacity is low.  If I could get it to work without much grief, it would be a viable option for me.

What I am curious about is the 'brain-box' of the charger.  If the BMS controls what the batteries receive, what does the control module of the charger do?  What search key word do I use if I want to learn more?  Charger controller?  EVCC?  I've never touched Arduino, but if detailed instructions were available, I might venture there.