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[Richard230]

My daughter's 2014 S with PT's, long-suffering original on-board charger has finally given up. I was visiting her today and when plugged in the charging light glows green, starts blinking and then just goes blank. If you leave the charger plugged in for a while longer, the red warning light starts flashing steadly.  When you pull the plug the light goes out.

Anyway, I was wonder what different options there are for replacing the charger? She wants to keep 120V charging at home.  Besides installing a new Zero replacement charger, or using a Zero accessory stand-alone charger, are there other relatively inexpensive options on the market that can be used to replace the dead charger so that she can continue to recharge her bike at home?

[ashnazg]

For that use case, I'd probably look for a used QuiQ... unless you're meaning <$200...

[Richard230]

For that use case, I'd probably look for a used QuiQ... unless you're meaning <$200...

My only concern about a stand-alone charger is if it will be a plug-and-play setup that doesn't require any MBS reprogramming and the charge status will show up on the display screen, like happens with the original charger, so that we know when the battery pack is fully charged. I wasn't so concerned about the price, I just wanted to discover what other charging options might be available that are worth considering, besides replacing the original onboard charger.

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

The only available emulation of the original charger is via DigiNow 2.5. If you use a single DigiNow unit on 110V input, it will draw 15A by default which works with most circuits.

The QuiQ and other accessory chargers like the Hollywood Electrics Elcon 2500 do not (and cannot) engage the same protocol that the onboard charger does, because they're only using signaling pins, not engaging in CANBus message observation and signaling.

[pacificcricket]

The QuiQ and other accessory chargers like the Hollywood Electrics Elcon 2500 do not (and cannot) engage the same protocol that the onboard charger does, because they're only using signaling pins, not engaging in CANBus message observation and signaling.

So that means what ? QuiQ won't cause for the dash to show when the pack is fully charged ?

[francesco]

My onboard charger is almost dead (only charges up to 85-89%), so I only use the QuiQ charger at home.
It behaves in every way (displays charge status, estimated time to 100%, etc..) as the onboard charger used to when it was still healthy.
The only difference is that I need to key on before plugging in (but I can turn off and remove the key after charging begins).

[Richard230]

The only available emulation of the original charger is via DigiNow 2.5. If you use a single DigiNow unit on 110V input, it will draw 15A by default which works with most circuits.

The QuiQ and other accessory chargers like the Hollywood Electrics Elcon 2500 do not (and cannot) engage the same protocol that the onboard charger does, because they're only using signaling pins, not engaging in CANBus message observation and signaling.

That and the response from francesco is the sort of information that I was looking for. I want to explore the different options to the onboard charger and their pros and cons before replacing the dead duck. Personally, I would suck it up and just go for replacing the Zero onboard charger with a new (and hopefully more reliable) one, but my son-in-law always likes to do things the hard way and would likely want to come up with a WWII hand-crank radio battery charger to recharge the bike.  But before he does that, I wanted to provide him with better options. 

[Starpower]

DigiNow's web site states that they only sell the 10kW triple charger and no longer sell single or even dual units. nice to have 10kW but not the price. That won't work for me as I live off-grid and I'm limited to 3.2kW at 120V.

Fingers crossed that my '13 OEM keeps on keeping on, but it does act up at times......

[BamBam]

My onboard charger is almost dead (only charges up to 85-89%), so I only use the QuiQ charger at home.
It behaves in every way (displays charge status, estimated time to 100%, etc..) as the onboard charger used to when it was still healthy.
The only difference is that I need to key on before plugging in (but I can turn off and remove the key after charging begins).

I thought the QuiQ charger could only be used in combination with the onboard charger.  Are you saying that's not the case and it can be used as a stand alone charger?

[Richard230]

My onboard charger is almost dead (only charges up to 85-89%), so I only use the QuiQ charger at home.
It behaves in every way (displays charge status, estimated time to 100%, etc..) as the onboard charger used to when it was still healthy.
The only difference is that I need to key on before plugging in (but I can turn off and remove the key after charging begins).

I thought the QuiQ charger could only be used in combination with the onboard charger.  Are you saying that's not the case and it can be used as a stand alone charger?

Good question. 

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

QuiQ and other chargers that work as accessories can charge the bike on their own with key-on enable before activating, and they will work as CC-CV program chargers tuned to the Zero pack specifications.

(Please only use chargers that have been customized at least to CC-CV behavior for the Zero battery, and also have basic electrical protections and professionally crimped pins with appropriate gauge cabling.)

However, they will not maintain long term cell balance as I understand the BMS activates the onboard charger for, and they are not otherwise controllable by the BMS the way the DigiNow charge controller implements. So you’ll be supervising the charger.

[Richard230]

QuiQ and other chargers that work as accessories can charge the bike on their own with key-on enable before activating, and they will work as CC-CV program chargers tuned to the Zero pack specifications.

(Please only use chargers that have been customized at least to CC-CV behavior for the Zero battery, and also have basic electrical protections and professionally crimped pins with appropriate gauge cabling.)

However, they will not maintain long term cell balance as I understand the BMS activates the onboard charger for, and they are not otherwise controllable by the BMS the way the DigiNow charge controller implements. So you’ll be supervising the charger.

That could be a problem for my daughter.  What is "CC-CV"?  Constant current and constant voltage?

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

QuiQ and other chargers that work as accessories can charge the bike on their own with key-on enable before activating, and they will work as CC-CV program chargers tuned to the Zero pack specifications.

(Please only use chargers that have been customized at least to CC-CV behavior for the Zero battery, and also have basic electrical protections and professionally crimped pins with appropriate gauge cabling.)

However, they will not maintain long term cell balance as I understand the BMS activates the onboard charger for, and they are not otherwise controllable by the BMS the way the DigiNow charge controller implements. So you’ll be supervising the charger.

That could be a problem for my daughter.  What is "CC-CV"?  Constant current and constant voltage?

Constant current, up to a target voltage, and then constant voltage ramping down current.

The BMS will balance the cells during the ramp down phase. But not later.

[Richard230]

Thanks.   

[caza]

When my charger died I used the QiiQ charger for a while as my replacement. It took a minute longer to set up charging but otherwise behaved exactly like the stock charger.

Really though, spending $800 on a replacement stock charger ended up being the right move. It's relatively affordable, easy enough to install, and functions just like I need it too. I can see the difference in the new stock charger in that there is a lot more visible effort in sealing it and it being waterproof, which I suspect had to do with at least some of the earlier charger failures.

The other options are too expensive and/or complicated to be worth it for me. YMMV.