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Author Topic: Zero Motorcycles NextGen Mobile App for SR/F now available  (Read 1488 times)

BrianTRice@gmail.com

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Re: Zero Motorcycles NextGen iOS App for SR/F now available
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2019, 09:33:43 AM »

What a strange app UI and especially the initial loading experience.

The visual style is a dark “flat” appearance as is the current trend, but the elements are largely black with no distinguishing borders, so when visual elements move, it’s difficult to follow visually.

The font is large and round, probably mirroring the font used for the Zero brand, but it’s overwhelming on an app meant for reading information daily.

There’s some EULA acceptance interaction up front, which seems unwise. I recommend deferring that until the capability the EULA involves is activated, so that the user gets the benefit first before jumping through a hoop.

It all seems competent, but underwhelming.
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MrBlc

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Re: Zero Motorcycles NextGen iOS App for SR/F now available
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2019, 11:49:08 AM »

As a privacy oriented consumer, i have an issue with this app..
There's NO way to opt out of sharing your personal data within this app.. in fact you have to agree to share everything just to be able to use it..

This is in direct breach with GDPR in .eu and will most likely become an issue..
I guess they want to become like Tesla so much they are willing to pay fines to the .eu to get there..
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Richard230

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Re: Zero Motorcycles NextGen iOS App for SR/F now available
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2019, 08:10:51 PM »

As a privacy oriented consumer, i have an issue with this app..
There's NO way to opt out of sharing your personal data within this app.. in fact you have to agree to share everything just to be able to use it..

This is in direct breach with GDPR in .eu and will most likely become an issue..
I guess they want to become like Tesla so much they are willing to pay fines to the .eu to get there..

That sort of thing is what Revzilla is doing starting last month.  When I saw their revised and updated "terms of service" which basically said that if I wanted to continue to do business with them, I would have to agree that all of the information that they collected on me was theirs and that they could sell it to anyone that they wanted. (That is the short summary of their long "contract".   :o )  When I read that, I stopped doing business with that well-thought-of internet motorcycle accessory company.  It seems like we are now worth more as internet information than the cost of our chemical elements after we die.  ::)
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Richard's motorcycle collection:  2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2020 KTM 390 Duke, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

BrianTRice@gmail.com

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Re: Zero Motorcycles NextGen iOS App for SR/F now available
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2019, 10:08:06 PM »

GDPR compliance is something I wrestled with last year, and that’s a good point. (In our case, data was collected specifically with customer intent so the issue was how to protect it and ensure customer control, particularly when a customer switched off.)

IIUC Zero is providing a service via 3G mobile data connection that it’s footing the bill on for a customer’s first two years. They’re not communicating that adequately but they should present the data request literally as a quid pro quo interaction that the user can reject.

To encapsulate that, I’m suggesting that the interaction take the general abstract form of this message:
“Here’s what we’re offering via this service. Are you willing to let us turn that on?”
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MrBlc

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Re: Zero Motorcycles NextGen iOS App for SR/F now available
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2019, 10:20:11 PM »

Actually, i would much rather have the options 1) "Do you agree to let us harvest all information when you use our service and in return we cover the cost of the service" or 2) "Do you agree to set up your own encryption key to use our service, we will have no insight in to how you use it but this will cost you $x per term"
Don't force me to share my life, present options!
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Richard230

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Re: Zero Motorcycles NextGen iOS App for SR/F now available
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2019, 04:14:30 AM »

Actually, i would much rather have the options 1) "Do you agree to let us harvest all information when you use our service and in return we cover the cost of the service" or 2) "Do you agree to set up your own encryption key to use our service, we will have no insight in to how you use it but this will cost you $x per term"
Don't force me to share my life, present options!

I agree. That seems like a reasonable approach, especially as they apparently intend to start charging for the app after two years.  So you are giving up your privacy for only two years of app use.  Is that worth it to you?
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flattetyre

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Re: Zero Motorcycles NextGen iOS App for SR/F now available
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2019, 04:38:14 AM »

As a privacy oriented consumer...

...you are a century behind the times. There is no privacy anymore, certainly not if you're using a smartphone, browse the internet, buy stuff with credit cards and drive your vehicle with a license plate that can be tracked back to you.
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GaryArt1

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Re: Zero Motorcycles NextGen iOS App for SR/F now available
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2019, 05:36:44 AM »

As a privacy oriented consumer...

...you are a century behind the times. There is no privacy anymore, certainly not if you're using a smartphone, browse the internet, buy stuff with credit cards and drive your vehicle with a license plate that can be tracked back to you.
I have to agree.  In my line of work I get to see the amount of information available on people.  It would surprise most of us and it is just growing.  We have to make a conscious decision. Put on our tin foil hats and avoid all types of modern technology from smartphones to computers.  Or we can make a concerted effort to guard the little information that is truly sensitive and give up on the rest.  A app or smartphone that tracks my location and driving habits doesn't really concern me.  Keep in mind, apps that are free usually provides some payback to developer.
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Richard230

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Re: Zero Motorcycles NextGen Mobile App for SR/F now available
« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2019, 06:15:39 AM »

I have my tinfoil hat firmly attached.  ;)
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Richard's motorcycle collection:  2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2020 KTM 390 Duke, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

MrBlc

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Re: Zero Motorcycles NextGen iOS App for SR/F now available
« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2019, 11:50:58 PM »

As a privacy oriented consumer...

...you are a century behind the times. There is no privacy anymore, certainly not if you're using a smartphone, browse the internet, buy stuff with credit cards and drive your vehicle with a license plate that can be tracked back to you.
I have to agree.  In my line of work I get to see the amount of information available on people.  It would surprise most of us and it is just growing.  We have to make a conscious decision. Put on our tin foil hats and avoid all types of modern technology from smartphones to computers.  Or we can make a concerted effort to guard the little information that is truly sensitive and give up on the rest.  A app or smartphone that tracks my location and driving habits doesn't really concern me.  Keep in mind, apps that are free usually provides some payback to developer.

I disagree. I know what is being logged, and you can actively block much of that fairly easy. I refuse to give up and let "them" win. As such the EU has come WAY further ahead from the us in terms of legislations protecting the individual and i could not applaud that louder.
I know GDPR is a costly hassle for some, like Brians experience, but it's sorely needed thanks to companies like Google and Facebook..
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GaryArt1

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Re: Zero Motorcycles NextGen iOS App for SR/F now available
« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2019, 12:13:33 AM »

I guess the point here is that you do have a choice.  If you are not comfortable with sharing the info, you can not use the app.  The bike will still run.  I do not believe the app is absolutely necessary to ride and use the SR/F.  Yes you will miss out on some of the "extras" like custom ride modes and bike status but I do not believe you have to use the app for the bike's basics.  Firmware updates are supposed to be over the air and probably won't use app.  After the two years you may either have to pay for the over the air or bring your bikes to the dealer for updates.  So what is comes down to is you may either have to compromise some for your privacy for the most sophisticated features and tech or live with some of the basics.  The choice is still yours.
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GaryArt1

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Re: Zero Motorcycles NextGen Mobile App for SR/F now available
« Reply #12 on: April 14, 2019, 12:46:26 AM »

Let me explain my last post a little more.  I can understand people's reluctance to sharing information about themselves.  If you looked at what is on the dark web about us, it is very scary.  In a perfect world we all would be given the choice of what into to share and not share without any penalties.  I look at it as there is some info that is okay to share and some which is not and as long as the company tells you what info it is collecting and how it is using it, I have no problem with them.  I will give two examples.  Take an app that tracks things that have nothing to do with the product or your use of it.  That is scary.  Now take a manufacturer that collects info on the use of their product so it can improve it and does not share that info.  I am okay with that.  Actually if Zero is suing the data to improve the firmware for all of us, I would be okay if they restricted some features for those who chose not to share.  This is just me and I know everyone will have their own opinion.
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MrBlc

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Re: Zero Motorcycles NextGen Mobile App for SR/F now available
« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2019, 04:15:52 PM »

Keeping with the spirit of your posts Gary, i would like to see the app change into the following:
a demo mode where you don't have to agree on sharing everything from your phone.
a section for those of us that just want to use the phone to set up the various modes of driving without having to agree to share..
If it's necessary configuration, it should not have to be reported upwards...
For vehicle tracking and telemetry from rides, i agree it has to go through someones server and therefore is subject to GDPR treatment, but i miss better clarity and separation of that fact..
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Ryan

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Re: Zero Motorcycles NextGen Mobile App for SR/F now available
« Reply #14 on: April 16, 2019, 01:23:01 PM »

MrBlc, thank you for sharing your heartfelt thoughts regarding data privacy. I should mention, I am not affiliated with Zero and these thoughts are my own.

Let me start by acknowledging that I'm in agreement with you - there doesn't appear to be a way to opt-out of sharing analytical data with Zero or their affiliates from the setup screen of the app. After exploring the NextGen app and reading the privacy policy, it appears that Zero has more of a forced opt-in and manual opt-out framework - rather than an optional opt-in framework as you'd prefer.

I was able to attend the SR/F unveiling at San Jose BMW last month and picked up some useful information that I think you'd find useful. Sean McLaughlin (Engineering Program Manager) from Zero Motorcycles shared the comments below.

Quote
I want to emphasize to everybody here that while we're talking about some of these details of all these really cool features that are available to you [made possible by the cellular connection], they're available to you at your discretion. There's absolutely nothing stopping you from turning the bike on, putting the side stand up, putting it in the run position, just like pretty much any other motorcycle you know, and just going for a ride. So, the technology is there for you on your terms. It's not there to get in your way or to distract you. It's there to enhance your overall riding experience both while you're on the bike and while you're off the bike.

...All of these connectivity features that rely on the cellular connection, Zero is covering the costs for the first two years with a promotion and we are in discussion with Starcom for what the detail of those contracts look like for the customer in the long-term and we are making our best effort to keep the monthly cost as low as possible. But the first two years are on us. If you like how it works for you, you can keep going if you want the same thing. You are not obligated to renew.

Three takeaways:
  • SR/F is fully functional without cellular connectivity
  • Cellular connectivity is free for the first two years
  • No obligation to renew after 2-year promotion expires
CELLULAR CONNECTIVITY FEATURES

Below is a list of the connectivity features, that were referenced by Sean at the unveiling, available because of the cellular connectivity which is provided by Starcom Systems Ltd. This list can be found at https://www.starcomsystems.com/2019/03/28/the-first-smart-connected-motorcycle-effortless-connection/.

Bike Status and Alerts: Charge interruptions, tip-over or unexpected motion notifications, and the “Find my Bike” function, which allows riders to keep tabs on the motorcycle at all times.

Charging: Remotely setting charging parameters, including Targeted Charge Levels, notification of State of Charge (SoC), Charge Time Scheduling and Charge Tracking. These notifications allow riders to control all aspects of charging and to monitor charge status even when away from the motorcycle.

Ride Data Sharing: Riders can gather, relive and share extensive data about their ride through the app. Through ride data recording, riders can replay each ride and also choose to upload additional content to record and share their full experience. Riders also have the option to keep such data anonymous.

System Upgrades and Updates: Remote downloading of the latest updates to ensure optimal performance and provide access to feature improvements.

PRIVACY DETAILS

It is noted in Zero's privacy policy (https://www.zeromotorcycles.com/legal/privacy-policy.php), which is embedded on the EULA screen of the NextGen App, that you can opt-out of sharing app data and in some cases you must opt-to intentionally share data. I've extracted parts of the privacy policy below and underlined a few relevant details.

ZERO MOTORCYCLES APP DATA

The Zero Motorcycles App gives you the ability to email diagnostic information to the Zero Motorcycles Customer Service Team. This will include information identifying the motorcycle such as VIN, the motorcycle’s settings (such as model, sprocket sizes) and information from your motorcycle’s event and error logs, which includes times and dates of rides along with the motorcycle performance data during these rides: speeds, temperatures and charging events. Statistical data about your ride and usage of the app, including but not limited to distance travelled, average speed and energy consumption may also be submitted. If you choose to email the bike log information to Zero Motorcycles, it will be associated with your motorcycle and its ownership information. This information is immediately shared with the dealer that originally sold the motorcycle and Zero Motorcycles personnel.

We use this information to resolve issues with your motorcycle and to improve product quality. We retain this information through data processor Salesforce for the period necessary to fulfill processing purposes as described below. Processing this information is necessary for the performance of our (service) contract, compliance with legal obligations (i.e. to warrant driving safety) and for our legitimate interest to provide our services to you, and to continuously improve our products.

The Zero Motorcycles App includes technology from Flurry Analytics which provides us with information about usage patterns and helps us determine the best areas for improvement. Flurry also records the types of devices and operating systems used, general geographic information, as well as events that occur within the Zero App, such as how often it is used and other anonymous data.

We use this data to determine which mobile devices and languages we should support. Flurry Analytics data will be retained for the period necessary to fulfill processing purposes as described below. For more information about Flurry, its privacy policy and how to opt out of this service, please go to www.flurry.com/user-opt-out.html.

MOTORCYCLE OWNERSHIP INFORMATION

When you purchase a new Zero Motorcycles motorcycle from a dealer or a distributor, we require them to submit your contact information so we can confirm the start of the warranty period and so that we can send you pertinent service updates should the need arise. In addition, as Zero Motorcycles announces new accessories or other products that might be used with your motorcycle, we will use this information to keep you updated. This information is stored at our data processor Salesforce.

Ownership history of our motorcycles is kept for the period necessary to fulfill processing purposes as described below. We may contact prior owners should the need arise. For example, while the current owner is supposed to contact us to transfer ownership via our website, we regularly are contacted by the new owner. Should we discover a motorcycle was stolen, we have the ability to contact the previously registered owner. Processing this information is necessary for the performance of our (service) contract, compliance with legal obligation (i.e. to warrant driving safety) and for our legitimate interest to provide our services to you, and to continuously improve our products.

HOW TO OPT-OUT

Reviewing or removing personal information

Under certain circumstances, you have the legal right to: (i) request access to your personal data; (ii) request the rectification of your personal data; (iii) request the erasure of your personal data; (iv) request the restriction of processing of your personal data; (v) object to the processing of your personal data where Zero Motorcycles relies on a legitimate interest; (vi) withdraw your consent to specific processing for which consent has previously been provided, without affecting the lawfulness of processing based on consent before its withdrawal; and (vii) request the transfer of your personal data to a third party.

You will not have to pay a fee to access your personal information (or to exercise any of the other rights). However, we may charge a reasonable fee if any request made by you is clearly unfounded or excessive. Alternatively, we may refuse to comply with the request in such circumstances.

We may need to request specific information from you to help us confirm your identity and ensure your right to access the information (or to exercise any of your other rights). This is another appropriate security measure to ensure that personal information is not disclosed to any person who has no right to receive it. All requests will be executed in accordance with the law, subject to legally available exceptions, within four weeks. If you want to exercise any of the above rights, please contact us by using the contact details below.

BY EMAIL:
privacy@zeromotorcycles.com

BY MAIL:
North America:
380 El Pueblo Road
Scotts Valley, CA 95066
USA

BY PHONE:
North America:
(888) 786-9376

BUT REMEMBER...

WHEN YOU DON’T PROVIDE INFORMATION

If you fail to provide certain information when requested, we may not be able to perform the contract we have entered into with you, or we may be prevented from complying with our legal obligations. We will notify you (of the possible consequences) when you do not provide us with the requested information necessary to perform the contracts we have entered into with you.

SUMMARY
  • You can enjoy effortless power and effortless control without effortless connection.
  • The app only submits bike information if you email the logs - based on my interpretation of the privacy policy.
  • You can opt-out of app analytics by visiting https://developer.yahoo.com/flurry/end-user-opt-out.html (which was bought by Verizon so it's a bit confusing right now). There is a "Don't Send" option when asked to Help Improve Your Zero Motorcycle Experience during the app setup process which may be connected to this analytical data - I'm not certain.
  • You can request the erasure of your personal data; request the restriction of processing of your personal data; object to the processing of your personal data where Zero Motorcycles relies on a legitimate interest; withdraw your consent to specific processing for which consent has previously been provided, without affecting the lawfulness of processing based on consent before its withdrawal by effortlessly emailing privacy@zeromotorcycles.com or calling (888) 786-9376.
Please note: I'm not a lawyer, this is not legal advice and this is not an exhaustive list of details.

It appears that you must opt-in to open the app, but you can choose to opt-out long before you ever order or receive your SR/F. However, you'll have to exercise your aforementioned rights...

Hope this helps,
Ryan
« Last Edit: April 16, 2019, 01:33:53 PM by Ryan »
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