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[clockfort]

Just as it seems like it's "That Time" for everyone else, my 2015 SR onboard charger killed itself this week.
It's out of warranty and the dealer quoted me ~$800 for a replacement, which I don't really want to spend on such a generally underpowered charger anyways.

I do own an external charger already. My plan is to just close the main contactor manually and solely use the external charger.
I assume other people have already done this? My questions are:
 - Will the MBB/BMS know it's being charged and correctly update its stats and go into charging mode and turn the LCD and bluetooth etc on?
 - And, will it enter "charging mode" only if I send a canbus message to have the bike close the contactor itself, or will it also correctly enter charging mode if I close it by just applying the voltage to the contactor coils manually? (since I'm lazy and it's hard for me to sniff the correct canbus messages now that my onboard charger is already dead)

[ashnazg]

If it's external, and assuming you connect it to the Anderson AUX, then it would seem that maybe all you need to do is just key the bike ON long enough for charging to commence... then key it OFF when done.

Or, has my H.E. Elcon spoiled me by doing some other magic I don't realize?

[clockfort]

https://zeromanual.com/wiki/Unofficial_Service_Manual#Protections seemed to say that only works for 30 minutes, after which it opens again. Unless doing this kicks it fully into "charging mode" ?
I also need a solution that doesn't leave the key in the bike, since I use public chargers.

So you're saying all I need to do is to plug the external charger in, key the bike on, it sees that it's charging and kicks it into charge mode, and then when I key the bike off, it'll keep charging until it's done?

If so that's perfect.

[ashnazg]

That's exactly my experience with my Elcon... I key it ON only long enough for charging to start... then key OFF, key OUT, me gone 😁

It's possible that it's doing some communication that I don't realize, but it would have to happen through the Anderson AUX, which I don't think is happening.

[DynoMutt]

I'm pretty sure there's a resistor on the communication line on that Anderson connector instructing the contactor to close, on the QUIQ charger that Zero sold anyway.

[caza]

I just went through this, and my experience was this:

Plug in QiiQ charger, key on bike, bike starts charging, remove key.
When I came back in the morning the bike was 100% fully charged.

My guess is that once the BMS is reading that the battery is charging, it communicates with the MBB and keeps the contactor closed.

Did this for about 2-3 weeks before I got a new charger and did the replacement.

It's kind of a tough deal financially. My zero was about 7k so nearly 1k to replace the charger after tax was a lot to swallow, especially with it being underpowered. But your other option is pretty much the diginow which is 3k+, and I just had no way to justify that since I have no use for quick charging. Lose/lose.

[clockfort]

That's exactly my experience with my Elcon... I key it ON only long enough for charging to start... then key OFF, key OUT, me gone 😁

It's possible that it's doing some communication that I don't realize, but it would have to happen through the Anderson AUX, which I don't think is happening.

I imagine the middle two small low-current connectors are the canbus line
But yes, thank you, the bike behaves as you two described, I just didn't realize it would work correctly after cycling the key while attempting to charge.

Now to enjoy riding a few pounds of onboard charger lighter!

[jnef]

The correct procedure is as described above, but repeated again:
Plug in the external charger(s) to the aux port.
Key on the bike
Wait for charging to start
Turn off and remove key
The bike will power down after the charge completes.  QuiQ will go into red-blinking standby when completed.

There are 2 control pins on the Anderson connector.  They are not CAN, but rather two distinct controls.  Each control pin can control two QuiQ's connected together; therefore the spec that the bike can control four QuiQ.  The MBB can disable/enable the QuiQ via this pin.  If you find that the QuiQ is not leaving red-blinking standby, power everything down and use contact cleaner on the control pins on both sides.  The control is current-sensitive rather than hi-z voltage-sensitive, so any dirt on those pins can make it not work.

[Electric Cowboy]

Hey guys, sorry to disappoint, but this is not how to initiate charging. In order to do it safely, even through the aux, you have to communicate with the bike. You also have to obey Zero's rules; I am sure you guys have seen photos of burned down bikes... I just saw someone's system burn down the other day because they were not following the rules.

Short of it : Leave the bike on and blip the throttle once every 30 min to trick the bike into allowing you to charge, but you will damage your battery charging like this and your cells will not balance this way. This is the hack way to deal with the issue, and I did this in the past when testing stuff.

Better option : get a fully integrated diginow either 3.3kw 6.6kw or 9.9kw. These communicate directly with the BMS and monitor the battery temperatures, voltages, amp hours, capacity, C rate etc. they keep the battery super healthy, better than stock even. There is a BLE API you can use to set stop voltage so for example stop at 80%, 110v. As well as charge power, and 1C limit or 1C+ flag if you want to void your warranty, but charge in less than an hour, or keep it at 1C and keep your battery warranty. These also put your bike into proper balance mode to keep the cells healthy like the OEM charger.

I definitely recommend even the stock charger or a well integrated charger of some kind, not a DIY. Batteries are no joke; I am just lucky that I had the best in the world to teach me about this stuff. I caught a lot of shit on fire when I was hacking the bikes. Thankfully I have never caught a battery on fire though. Copious circuit boards, Zero MBBs and Zero BMSs have given their life to the R&D cause. I recommend avoiding burning up a $700-$7500 part to save $200 on a DIY solution which in the end would cost much more than just replacing with the stock charger.

Best of luck however you go though. I know some customers of ours are upgrading from charge tanks to more powerful charge pans, so there is also a used market for Zero OEM parts. We will also be doing some local installs at the Re-Cycle Garage where people will be removing their OEM chargers, which everyone knows I dislike a LOT, but it's still better than risking your BMS or MBB.

[ashnazg]

Ok, that definitely confirms in my mind that my H.E. Elcon was indeed doing some communication...

[jnef]

Hey guys, sorry to disappoint, but this is not how to initiate charging. In order to do it safely, even through the aux, you have to communicate with the bike. You also have to obey Zero's rules; I am sure you guys have seen photos of burned down bikes... I just saw someone's system burn down the other day because they were not following the rules.

I was under the impression OP was using a QuiQ external charger.  Rereading, I realize that wasn't clear.

Yes, if the question is about a generic dumb charger, then "everything EC said."  If you're purchasing new hardware, get the diginow.  If you already have the QuiQ, then I stand by my previous comments.

[Electric Cowboy]

Good points, the OP did not clarify what the offboard charger was, if it is a Quiq, then yes, start the charge with the bike on when the green flash comes on, then you can turn the bike off.

If you are planning on a DIY, then the comments above apply, if not, charge on as the Quiq will still enable battery balance too.

[clockfort]

OP has the Hollywood Electric Elcon 2.5kW charger; it shows up on the MBB serial console as a recognized charger, does that mean it's okay and the BMS is still balancing etc? I guess I could examine the logs for cell voltage variance etc otherwise but I don't really want to 

I didn't realize that the new diginow 2.5s were so well-integrated. It wouldn't take too much arm-twisting at all to get me to sell these elcons and switch :-)
If you don't mind a semi-off-topic question, does the v2.5 diginow solution also correctly read the j1772 pwm pulse train and do correct current limiting automatically? I don't want to screw around with setting it manually every EVSE station I come to.

[ashnazg]

It's the Hollywood Electrics 2.5kW charger that I have, so that's the basis for my original expectations and instructions.