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Author Topic: SOC indicator wildly inaccurate  (Read 888 times)

DaveMplano

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SOC indicator wildly inaccurate
« on: December 08, 2018, 08:43:25 PM »

I have a 2016 FXS with about 7800 miles on it.  With MBB firmware release 48, the "fuel gauge" was a pretty reliable indicator how much juice was left.  After upgrading to release 53 in September, the indicator bears no relation to the battery state whatsoever.   After a full charge and the phone app showing 115 volts in the batteries, the indicator will show 2, 0, 17, 24, or whatever, at start.  After riding a while, it may change to some other value or it may not. 

I have reset the batteries--why not--to no effect.  Is there a means to reset the MBB?  I have not taken the bike to the dealer, though will soon.  Perhaps there is a newer firmware release that addresses this problem.
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Electric Cowboy

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Re: SOC indicator wildly inaccurate
« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2018, 10:25:53 AM »

If you have a bad version, an update is in order. Make sure your dealer updates your batteries BMSs as well.

DaveMplano

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Re: SOC indicator wildly inaccurate
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2018, 07:34:36 AM »

Thanks!  I will pay my dealer a visit.
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Curt

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Re: SOC indicator wildly inaccurate
« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2018, 09:28:43 AM »

Due to stories like this, I don't want my 16FX firmware ever to be "upgraded". The thing has been functioning flawlessly for nearly 7000 miles. So far, I haven't heard any safety, longevity or feature enhancement reason to justify an upgrade. If I were to get a serious recall notice, fine -- but otherwise no.

I'm concerned about taking it in for motor commissioning lest it get upgraded despite instructions not to. I wouldn't be surprised if the commissioning process calls for a firmware upgrade before proceeding.
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Burton

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Re: SOC indicator wildly inaccurate
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2018, 06:08:11 PM »

I'm concerned about taking it in for motor commissioning lest it get upgraded despite instructions not to. I wouldn't be surprised if the commissioning process calls for a firmware upgrade before proceeding.

You don't need to upgrade the firmware to do a commissioning. And that reminds me ... I should likely check my alignment of the encoder :/
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BamBam

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Re: SOC indicator wildly inaccurate
« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2018, 09:48:33 PM »

You don't need to upgrade the firmware to do a commissioning.

Correct.  I took my 2017 DSR in for the 600 mile commissioning service a while back and told my dealer not to do any updates and they didn't.  I also got the commissioning log to prove the commissioning was performed.

As a side note, I'm still running the original firmware that came with the bike when I bought it new.  I appears to me that the firmware updates are geared to improving battery range at the expense of performance, which is another reason I don't want to do any updates.  I'd rather have the improved performance over better battery range.  I could be wrong, but that is my perception.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2018, 09:56:50 PM by BamBam »
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Currently Owned Bikes:
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Richard230

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Re: SOC indicator wildly inaccurate
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2018, 04:32:57 AM »

You don't need to upgrade the firmware to do a commissioning.

Correct.  I took my 2017 DSR in for the 600 mile commissioning service a while back and told my dealer not to do any updates and they didn't.  I also got the commissioning log to prove the commissioning was performed.

As a side note, I'm still running the original firmware that came with the bike when I bought it new.  I appears to me that the firmware updates are geared to improving battery range at the expense of performance, which is another reason I don't want to do any updates.  I'd rather have the improved performance over better battery range.  I could be wrong, but that is my perception.

My perception is that the updates tend to reduce the battery capacity by cutting the maximum voltage from 117V, to 116V and now 115V, over the years.  I don't know if the lower cutoff voltage has been increased, as I never really tested that.  So my thought is that Zero is trying to increase battery life a bit, while reducing range with some of their firmware revisions.  Regarding performance, whatever the reason, my 2014 S with PT felt like it had more acceleration than my 2018 S, with PT.  Although it is true that the newer Zero models are heavier than the old ones, due to upgrades like the Showa suspension and ABS, so that might be the cause of the difference.  ???
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Richard's motorcycle collection:  2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2020 KTM 390 Duke, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

Electric Cowboy

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Re: SOC indicator wildly inaccurate
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2018, 02:04:34 PM »

Richard, thats not your firmware decreasing the voltage over time, it is your charger failing. Tell CS your bikes voltage is decreasing over the years and they will likely send you a new charger, very easy to install, or a dealer can do it under warranty.

@Curt and others who are not upgrading, If you have a 2017 or newer battery, there are good reasons to upgrade, I will leave it at that because its a lot of info, but the upgrade is good enough that I suggest you do it.

I know Curt has a 16, we upgraded ALL our bikes firmware to test for fixes and while I can see it is not what I would have done, it is acceptable. The only thing I would expect to be wonky is the estimated range, but the rest should be reasonable.

UW4E

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Re: SOC indicator wildly inaccurate
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2018, 08:47:17 PM »

I hope that there will be a firmware update also for my Zero S 2015 in the future.
Since the last update the SOC and Range values are not reliable any more!
That's really a shame because I had a perfect Iceland trip with the old firmware (which I simply should have kept ...)

Greetings,
Uwe
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With an electric motorcycle to Iceland - June 2018:
http://www.uw4e.de


Zero S 2015 - 41,000 km / 25,800 miles since July 2016 (Status Nov '18)

Richard230

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Re: SOC indicator wildly inaccurate
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2018, 08:57:56 PM »

Richard, thats not your firmware decreasing the voltage over time, it is your charger failing. Tell CS your bikes voltage is decreasing over the years and they will likely send you a new charger, very easy to install, or a dealer can do it under warranty.

@Curt and others who are not upgrading, If you have a 2017 or newer battery, there are good reasons to upgrade, I will leave it at that because its a lot of info, but the upgrade is good enough that I suggest you do it.

I know Curt has a 16, we upgraded ALL our bikes firmware to test for fixes and while I can see it is not what I would have done, it is acceptable. The only thing I would expect to be wonky is the estimated range, but the rest should be reasonable.

Thanks for the support, Cowboy, but I am not sure that a drop of one volt when the charger turns off at an SOC of 100% after a year is something that I would call a warranty issue.  My bike never did finish charging at 117 V, that only happened with my 2014 S, when it was new.  My 2018 S finished charging at 116 V the first time it was recharged after purchase. Now it stops at 115 V, at 100% SOC, but that is not big enough of an issue for me to make a warranty claim.  I made my comment because that maximum voltage reduction happened immediately after a firmware update about 8 months ago.

Meanwhile, my old 2014 S (which originally maxed out at 117 V when it was new),  that I gave my daughter, has stabilized at an initial cut off of 113 V and 92% SOC, after 5 years of usage. That still provides her will plenty of range for the riding that she does. However, if she keeps the charger plugged in for a week, it will eventually get up to 116 V and show 100% SOC on the display. The charger just turns on by itself every day and adds another 1% SOC or so to the pack before turning off again.

That why I always figured that it was a few cells going bad, rather than the charger, as that sort of thing happened to me with the Hi Power batteries that came with my two Electric Motorsport GPR-S bikes. When the individual batteries started going bad, they would fully charge more quickly than the other 24 batteries in the pack, and then start bloating up and eventually out-gas when the dumb charger and even dumber BMS would not shut off.

My experience with the EMS GPR-S bikes provided an early education into the wonders of electric motorcycles, Chinese Hi Power lithium batteries, wonky BMS circuits (one BMS caught on fire in my garage while it was charging, none of the others worked for very long) and no after-sales support, which tends to color my observations to this day.  ;)
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Richard's motorcycle collection:  2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2020 KTM 390 Duke, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

DaveMplano

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Re: SOC indicator wildly inaccurate
« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2019, 05:46:32 AM »

Got my bike back from the dealer.  They said the batteries (or one of them) was not properly plugged in.  Still running version 53 firmware and the SOC looks much better. 

It is getting cold here again, so I will probably not ride it again for a month or so
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