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Author Topic: Zero CTO Expects Sales Surge (Motorcycle News article)  (Read 2655 times)

Richard230

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Re: Zero CTO Expects Sales Surge (Motorcycle News article)
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2018, 04:23:58 AM »

That article is a lot more optimistic than I am about the future sales of electric motorcycles, including Zeros.  Not only do they need to change their platform to make it larger and the styling more interesting, but they also need to lower their prices, increase the range, update their chassis electronics and do something that will get their product in the general news - like riding a Zero across the White House lawn.   :o 

Most government incentives in the U.S. have gone away for electric motorcycles, such as the 10% tax credit from the IRS, and that can't have done much to increase sales to the public. When I bought my 2018 Zero I received a $900 rebate from California, but all that did was to cover the sales tax that I paid to the state when buying the bike. How many other states offer rebates for electric motorcycles?

My opinion is that the only thing that will really increase sales of electric motorcycles is if the U.S. and EU governments get heavy-handed and lower the hammer on ICE bikes, or if there is a war in the Middle East that cuts oil production and causes gasoline supplies to be restricted, like happened during the "Gas Crisis" of the mid-1970's.

If Zero is having their best year yet, I bet it is mostly due to fleet sales to various public agencies.  ???
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Fran K

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Re: Zero CTO Expects Sales Surge (Motorcycle News article)
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2018, 04:37:29 AM »

So he was at Buell for 15 years how long of a contract does he have with Zero?

Seems more click bait than anything else.
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Re: Zero CTO Expects Sales Surge (Motorcycle News article)
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2018, 05:46:01 AM »

Aiming for fleet sales is wise, since fleets operate more on accounting principles than individuals do, and have broader budget stability.

Zero sales do seem to consistently grow, but they haven't grown as quickly as statements from 2013 suggested (when Abe was brought on, among others, turning Zero around from when they delivered bikes that I didn't think were worth buying).

I think Zero doesn't broadly understand how their offerings are perceived, and are not executing well at marketing.

I always answer questions about my bike, and Zero is still non-existent to most motorcyclists and to the motorcycle-inclined market. Even when people are aware of Zero, they don't know "who it's for" which is part of the scope of marketing. And my bike looks way more interesting (to me) and fully-fleshed out than most owners' bikes.
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caza

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Re: Zero CTO Expects Sales Surge (Motorcycle News article)
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2018, 08:52:50 AM »

With this years model being essentially no different than last years, with no difference in pricing, and no smarter marketing, I don't see how sales would be any different this year. Gas is cheap right now too!

Fleet sales is likely the only thing that will increase their numbers. Consumer sales have no reason to increase.

I have the same experience with the other riders I know. Conversation goes "What do you ride" "A Zero SR" "Who makes that???" "Zero, they've been making electric bikes in scotts valley for 10~ years." "Oh okay" And then they follow with a bunch of skeptical questions about range and speed, and concerns about the lack of noise.

People keep wanting to call companies "the tesla of motorcycles" but the truth is while zero is the most practical and successful, none of the electric bike brands have anywhere near the name recognition of tesla, nor have they succeeded in the most important way: making e-moto's desirable and "sexy" for the masses who weren't already interested in electric. If anything zero is closer to the Nissan Leaf, slow and steady growth aimed at a very specific market. But even then, the leaf is obviously much more successful.
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heroto

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Re: Zero CTO Expects Sales Surge (Motorcycle News article)
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2018, 10:14:40 AM »

How many motos is Zero selling? Seems like a closely guarded secret.
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dennis-NL

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Re: Zero CTO Expects Sales Surge (Motorcycle News article)
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2018, 06:10:48 PM »

Maybe Zero can't make more bikes than they allready do.
So why should they do a campaign costing huge money?
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domingo3

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Re: Zero CTO Expects Sales Surge (Motorcycle News article)
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2018, 07:17:38 PM »

  At the risk of beating a dead horse, I think Zero really needs to address their service issues before sales can take off.  One of the best uses for Zero is as a commuter bike.  Although most Zeros are reliable, the very real chance of a commuter bike being in the shop for months is pretty off-putting.  I don't think the technology is there yet to make a mass market bike for people who want to tour cross country or go hit the twisties on the weekends.  Yes, some dedicated people can make it work, but I believe that in the near term, the biggest market is to people who are doing short trips.

  I'm sure it's partly a function of where I ride and who I talk to, but the people that seem like they might buy a Zero have a motorcycle in the lot when I'm talking to them.  The people that say it's not for them have a car in the lot and a bike (or bikes) at home.
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Richard230

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Re: Zero CTO Expects Sales Surge (Motorcycle News article)
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2018, 08:50:10 PM »

How many motos is Zero selling? Seems like a closely guarded secret.

I have seen Zero yearly sales numbers tossed around between 1500 a year and 3000 a year, depending upon the source. In any case, whatever the number, sales are not nearly large enough for the big established (and well funded) motorcycle companies, like the Japanese and Europeans (BMW accepted, kind of) to jump into the high-performance electric motorcycle market. Granted H-D says that they plan to enter the market next year with an updated LiveWire, but we will have to see how that works out for them once the price is announced and the hype in the press cools off.  However, I am sure that Jay Leno will be one of their first customers.  ::)

Also, I agree with Domingo3's comments that the only real potential mass market for electric motorcycles right now is as a commuter vehicle and that is the way Zeros ought to be advertised to the general public who are not currently electric motorcycle enthusiasts.

I have several BMW-owning friends and they tell me that what they are looking for in an electric motorcycle is a 200 mile range at 75 mph.  Zero is not there yet.

One other thing:  Every weekend I ride up to the motorcycle hangout, Alice's Restaurant, on one of my motorcycles.  My BMW RS and Triumph Bonneville gets noticed, as does my Royal Enfield. But when I ride up there on my Zero no one has ever seemed to pay any attention the bike and I have yet to have anyone run over and say "Great looking motorcycle, what is it and where can I get one."   :'(
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JaimeC

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Re: Zero CTO Expects Sales Surge (Motorcycle News article)
« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2018, 08:58:02 PM »

I can only speak as someone living on Long Island in New York State but I think this would apply to nearly anyone living in a congested urban/suburban environment.

Zero builds EXACTLY the kind of motorcycle people who live in these areas NEED (although not necessarily what they WANT).  Up until recently I owned two ICE motorcycles plus my Zero S (I am now down to one ICE motorcycle and a Zero).  I ride every day the weather permits; mostly commuting (I have a 34 mile round trip commute; nearly all highway).  Unless I need to carry more than one passenger, or more "luggage" than permitted by the capacity of either of my bikes, my car remains parked at the curbside most of the time.  To give an example of how little my car is used, at the time it was traded in this year my 2001 Subaru Outback had JUST topped 100,000 miles.  By comparison, my 1999 BMW K1200LT (which has NEVER been the "only motorcycle" in my garage) now has over 214,000 miles.

Since getting the Zero, the ICE bikes have been relegated to multi-day trips, or days where I expect to do over 100 miles (typically on weekends with my riding club).  Otherwise, I ride the Zero.  I've discovered that 90% of my riding is perfectly fine on the Zero.  I have the 13kWh model without the charge tank or the power tank (Level 1 charging only).  At the time my 2016 model was totaled in June of this year, it had nearly 17,000 miles on the odometer.  In the two months I've had my 2018 model I've already logged more miles on it than I did with the 2016 model over the first six months of this year.

So my conclusion is that MOST of my riding is perfectly suited to the Zero.  I rarely exceed 100 miles a day, even when I'm out joy-riding on weekends.  The bike has more than enough range to get me to and from work, take a lunch time ride, and run errands after work.  Even better, since it doesn't require warm up, and isn't harmed by very short rides (like riding to and from a train station less than a mile away for example) it is actually BETTER than my ICE motorcycles a majority of the time.

The issue is, most people don't look logically at their needs.  They WANT the biggest/fastest/shiniest thing they can get their hands on.  Most of the suggestions I read on this forum would only make Zeros more expensive (not less) and therefore even LESS desirable to the riding (and non-riding) public.  Marketing is the issue; Zero should NOT be trying to reach existing riders; I think Zero would do better targeting NON-RIDERS (kind of like Honda did in the 60s with the Passport).

It wouldn't surprise me to learn a majority of riders have unrealistic ideas of themselves.  I can't tell you HOW many times I've spoken to other riders at biker gatherings who claim to be avid riders, yet log less than 3,000 miles a year on their bikes.  These are the same people who usually have a dresser style (touring) bike with all the bells and whistles, but they've never gone beyond their own State or maybe the neighboring one.  I average about 18,000 miles a year (and that's gone down as I've gotten older and my wife has gotten more and more infirm and unable to ride with me).

I really believe that if people looked realistically at how they use their motorcycles, they would see that a Zero makes perfect sense.  Just my $0.02.
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JaimeC

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Re: Zero CTO Expects Sales Surge (Motorcycle News article)
« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2018, 09:01:27 PM »

One other thing:  Every weekend I ride up to the motorcycle hangout, Alice's Restaurant, on one of my motorcycles.  My BMW RS and Triumph Bonneville gets noticed, as does my Royal Enfield. But when I ride up there on my Zero no one has ever seemed to pay any attention the bike and I have yet to have anyone run over and say "Great looking motorcycle, what is it and where can I get one."   :'(

Actually, I have the opposite reaction whenever I go to biker hangouts with my Zero.  Someone always comes up to me and asks me if it's one of those "electric bikes they've heard about."  Most of them didn't think they'd ever get to see one in real life and more than one were surprised to hear there is a local dealership where they can go demo one and buy one of their own.

I started going to some local "Electric Vehicle Gatherings" and (so far) I've been the only motorcyclist present and I always seem to attract the biggest crowd.
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Richard230

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Re: Zero CTO Expects Sales Surge (Motorcycle News article)
« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2018, 09:32:16 PM »

One other thing:  Every weekend I ride up to the motorcycle hangout, Alice's Restaurant, on one of my motorcycles.  My BMW RS and Triumph Bonneville gets noticed, as does my Royal Enfield. But when I ride up there on my Zero no one has ever seemed to pay any attention the bike and I have yet to have anyone run over and say "Great looking motorcycle, what is it and where can I get one."   :'(

Actually, I have the opposite reaction whenever I go to biker hangouts with my Zero.  Someone always comes up to me and asks me if it's one of those "electric bikes they've heard about."  Most of them didn't think they'd ever get to see one in real life and more than one were surprised to hear there is a local dealership where they can go demo one and buy one of their own.

I started going to some local "Electric Vehicle Gatherings" and (so far) I've been the only motorcyclist present and I always seem to attract the biggest crowd.

I have been to a number of EV events over the past 10 years and my observation, at least here in the SF Bay Area, is that electric cars get a lot more attention from the public than electric motorcycles.  Thanks to my Zero, I am only adding about 300 miles to my car's odometer each year - which doesn't seem to make much difference to my car's insurance premium, unfortunately.  :(
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JaimeC

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Re: Zero CTO Expects Sales Surge (Motorcycle News article)
« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2018, 10:16:29 PM »

Yeah, oddly enough most of the attention I got at the last EV gathering was from people who owned electric cars.  The general public seemed more interested in the electric cars (ESPECIALLY the Tesla Model 3 that was there for demo rides).  That's understandable thanks to all the hoopla about that model ever since it was announced.  Even I took it for a drive.
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Moto7575

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Re: Zero CTO Expects Sales Surge (Motorcycle News article)
« Reply #13 on: December 08, 2018, 12:40:12 AM »

I think Zero has lots to do on customer service before sales really takeoff. 100 % of my friends who bought BMW Evo scooter are ready to buy one again, and had (minor) early problems fixed very quickly. To the contrary, customer service for Zero can be totally unresponsive, and refuse handling major problems (like engine defect) out of commercial warranty even when in the company's responsability. This is not a good sign for the company itself, and it will be impossible for sales to takeoff if they handle customers and retailers this way. BMW does exactly the opposite and is really booming.

As for the sales, the numbers are very small. For France there sold 197 models in 2017 (http://www.csiam-fr.org/sites/default/files/fichier_pdf_presse/mtm_france_-_par_marque_0.pdf) when BMW Evo (electric scooter) sold 901 models in the same 12 months.
This is coherent with a 2000 sales per year figure (https://www.businessinsider.fr/us/tesla-of-electric-motorcycles-zero-motorcycles-shares-company-plans-2018-3), ie 10 per day globally. "The company builds about 2,000 motorcycles annually, with pricing running from $8,500 to over $10,000."

So this is not a 150 M$ company, but more a  10-20 M$ company. It seems that the sales diminished, probably due to a mix of quality issues and customer service (eco-friendly customer can accept issues, if they don't fear being stuck with a non working bike after a couple of years).

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JaimeC

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Re: Zero CTO Expects Sales Surge (Motorcycle News article)
« Reply #14 on: December 08, 2018, 03:06:48 AM »

My experience with recent BMW customer service: <RANT ON>

I owned a 2013 C650GT.  It broke down FOUR times hundreds of miles from home.  The first couple of times was within the three year/36K mile warranty.  The bike was fixed, but it was still on me to figure out how to get home after the break down, and how to get the bike back after it was fixed.

The final time it died on me 200 miles from home was this past May (Memorial Day weekend).  The timing chain had slipped and the valves self-destructed against the pistons.  There was a recall on this issue less than a year after I picked up the scooter (BRAND new).  That recall was done because that is one scary scenario.  Both the servicing dealership and I reached out to BMW to see if there was anything they could do because a replacement engine was $4,000 in parts ALONE.

After a week of consideration, in the most polite way possible, they told me I could go **** myself as the bike was "too old."  It may've been two years out of warranty but it was still less than 36,000 miles.  Repeated requests got the same response.  I ended up signing the POS over to the servicing dealer and walked away from it.

Up until this point I was a die-hard BMW fan.  I've been riding them since 1985 and I'm a member of their 400,000 mile club.  I'd heard tales of how their quality and customer service had grown progressively worse since the motorcycle division was taken over by the automotive division but this was my first time experiencing it myself.  If BMW thinks I'll ever buy another vehicle from them (two OR four wheels) they are on some SERIOUS drugs.  I will continue (grudgingly) being a customer of theirs because I do love my 1999 K1200LT and haven't found a new motorcycle I like as much.  At 214,000 miles on the odometer, I think this is the last of the "Old School" BMWs.  Nothing out of their factory since has the same longevity or durability.  They'd rather you buy a new vehicle every three years (after your warranty expires) so they can tout their new bike/new car sales numbers to their stockholders.  They no longer care about those of us who just want to keep our vehicles running for as long as possible.</RANT OFF>
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