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[gt13013]

Hello,

I have some suggestions and a question about chargers.
 
First, my bike is a FXS 2016 with 6.5 kWh (in two 3.3 kWh packs).
Here, in Europe, the usual domestic plugs are 220V / 16A (so they can deliver about 3.5 kW). 
Up to know, I have always charged using  the onboard charger (720W), and most of the time I am limiting the charge to 80% using a timer. Indeed, most of my daily usage is less than 40 kms, and I only charge to 100% when I know that I could need more range.

But in some cases I would need to fast charge in order to increase my range.

For me, the perfect charger would be a mobile one (not fixed to the bike) since I would only use it occasionally. I would bring it in the top case when needed. A weight around 5 kgs or less would be fine.
I would use it on domestic plugs available everywhere (no need to search dedicated plugs which are still uncommon here).
A power around 3.3 kW would be great: it would draw 16A max on the domestic plug.
It could be used together with the onboard charger (using a domestic plug from another circuit) and give a full charge in about 1h35min.
But in case the available domestic plug is weak and does not allow to draw 16A, it would be nice to have a switch on the charger to reduce the power (ideally, a 3-positions switch to choose from 1.1kW, 2.2kW, 3.3kW, that would give a perfect range of solutions if adding the 0.72kW inboard charger).
Another nice feature would be to have a switch to choose between 100% charge and 80% charge.
Note that rather than working in constant power mode, it could work in CC-CV mode, with 3 switchable currents and 2 switchable end voltages.

It seems that there are already devices able to do that, but they need to be triggered in order to offer these functionalities.

I do not see anything that could be impossible, since Zero says in the manual of the bike that we can use simultaneously up to 4 Zero quick 1kW chargers (from the manual: "The scalable quick charging feature allows up to four supplemental accessory chargers (in addition to the existing integrated charger) to be connected to the motorcycle").

That would be great to have a charger of this kind (either made by Zero, or with Zero's agreement). For sure it would interest many users.


That was for the suggestions. Now for the question:

Recent and more sophisticated chargers seem to use complex interaction with the bike (CANbus), and they exchange various information in order to optimize the charge.
On the fast charge connector of my Zero, there are only 4 wires. Obviously, the two big ones are for the power.
But what kind of information passes through the two central wires? Is it only an ON / OFF signal sent by the MBB to the charger, or is it more complex? Wiring diagram here if it can help.

[gt13013]

I had a question in my previous message about the signals exchanged between the bike and the external charger through the 2 central pins of the Anderson connector. If somebody has some information, I am still interested 


I also would like to know if somebody has successfully used this Thunderstruck EVCC charge controller.
They say in their EVCC-Basic Manual, page 6, that it can store 4 user-configurable settings and can easily switch from one to another (it only needs a contactor with 4 positions, addressing 4 different resistances).
It will be very nice for instance to have 4 settings such as:

		| Full power	| Reduced power	|
	Full final voltage 116.2V (SOC 100%)	| setting 1	| setting 2	|
	Reduced final voltage 109V (SOC 80%)	| setting 3	| setting 4	|

They say that this device should be able to interact with CAN-enabled TSM2500, 1500, ElCon, and Lear chargers.

[MrDude_1]

If you have the money for the 3.3kw diginow charger, you could replace your onboard with it.
Then you get your 80% charging automatically.
No need to carry external.
always slightly faster charging (a good thing, being discharged is more harmful than charging fast in most cases)
You can turn it up or down as needed via your phone.

I think it would not just hit all your requests, but also exceed them.

[gt13013]

Thanks.
I have considered the Diginow option, but I have not been able to know if it can be put on an FXS, and, in case the answer is yes, how it should be installed. It seems that it is not a feasible solution when you are in France...

[MVetter]

Thanks.
I have considered the Diginow option, but I have not been able to know if it can be put on an FXS, and, in case the answer is yes, how it should be installed. It seems that it is not a feasible solution when you are in France...

It can be, and it can go in the case as you're mentioning. It will come with a Mennekes Type 2 inlet standard for Europe. Send me an email at morgan@diginow.it for more info.

[Neuer_User]

Thanks.
I have considered the Diginow option, but I have not been able to know if it can be put on an FXS, and, in case the answer is yes, how it should be installed. It seems that it is not a feasible solution when you are in France...

Hi Gerard

I had mentioned the Diginow option to you on email and I myself have ordered an onboard solution for me from them, because I think they have a very good product. Their chargers clearly work for FXS, too.

Having said that, I should mention that I had used a self built (offboard) charger for more than a year now, and I have been pretty happy with it. I do not think that there is rocket science in charging EV batteries, as long as you use proven dedicated chargers. There are many professional chargers and charging controllers out there (one of them being mentioned by you). Diginow, however, has the experience with Zero, a unique integration with the Zero BMS (which is not necessary, but very nice to have), and a great onboard solution (thanks to @doctorbass belly pan).

However, I need also to mention that Diginow is essentially a two persons company. There is Brandon (the technical guy) and Morgan (the sales person). And that poses limitations to their capabilities. So, while Morgan has greatly improved the sales activities of Diginow (which were non-existing before), there is still a lack of delivery capabilities, unfortunately. I have ordered and payed my chargers four weeks ago and so far have been completely unable to get a delivery date (even only an estimated date) from Morgan. The same concerning installation or usage instructions. This is currently pretty frustrating for me and other European customers (not mentioning the European distributor, who has not get any more infos from them either).

So, honestly, if you are interested in an offboard solution, I think both ways forward a possible for you:

• Get a Diginow charger: Professional, well tested product, at a steep price and an unknown delivery date and (unfortunately) lacking customer support in Europe
• Build you own solution: Use professional chargers (e.g. the elcons) with a proven controller. Pay a much lower price and get the charger delivered soon. Test the voltage output before connecting to your bike. But generally you clearly have a somewhat higher risk and no customer support at all!

Michael

[gt13013]

I have finally found a solution that matches all my wishes 
- fast charger (3.3kW when used at the maximum power)
- that I can use only when I need it, i.e. not fixed to the bike, but transportable in the top case or elsewhere
- that plugs easily to the input current source on one side, and to the bike on the other side
- not too heavy (5.44 kgs with connectors and a 1 meter long Anderson cable), nor bulky
- that I can use alone, or with the inboard charger of the bike
- that can be used on a domestic plug 220V/16A
- that can be used on a weak domestic plug 220V/10A for instance, or less (configurable "on the road")
- that can be used on Mennekes Type 2 plugs (charging stations)
- that can charge to full charge (100%) or less (80% for instance), and configurable "on the road"
- waterproof and insensitive to vibrations

After examining many solutions, I have decided to buy my charger from Otten (Germany), where I got very kind advices and support, and where I could get the charger with all its wiring and connectors adapted to my wishes.
Otten proposed me two solutions:

• A 3.3 kW charger "ready for use". You plug it on 220V/16A domestic plug on one side, and on the Anderson (brown) connector on the other side. You can use it with the charger of your bike at the same time
• The same charger, but controlled by CAN-bus

Both chargers are waterproof, shock-proof (in fact they are the same as Diginow, Elcon, TC Charger HK-J,...).
I decided to opt for the second option, since the CAN-operated charger can be controlled and programmed externally, which offers more possibilities.
Some people use Arduino's to control their chargers (you can for instance find information on Lennart's Github, but since I have not used Arduino's myself before, I chose another option.

I am controlling the CAN-bus charger using the ThunderStruck EVCC-Basic Controller. They provide a detailed PDF manual with many useful instructions about the way to wire it and to configure it. At page 6 of their manual, you can see that it can store 4 user-configurable settings and can easily switch from one to another (it only needs a contactor with 4 positions, addressing 4 different resistances). Thunderstruck support was very nice, and I was surprised to be asked, at the time I was buying it: "How would you like that we configure your controller?"  . I asked for:
- mode 1: 116.2V and 32A (full charge, draws 16A on the 220V plug)
- mode 2: 116.2V and 20A (full charge, draws 10A on the 220V plug)
- mode 3: 109V and 32A (about 80% charge, draws 16A on the 220V plug)
- mode 4: 109V and 20A (about 80% charge, draws 10A on the 220V plug)
And it works as is. Perhaps I will make more fine settings later, but these 4 are already pretty nice.
Note that the controller needs a 12V feeding, that is supplied by the charger itself. The 4 wires between the charger and the controller are: Ground, +12V, CAN-L, CAN-H.

Here are some pictures. I still have to get a 4 positions commutator (instead of my ugly piece of plexiglass with 4 plugs), and a box to put everything inside.

[Shadow]

Looks great! I'll be trying this with the 1800W model (only $306 USD shipped from China).

[gt13013]

I also have considered to buy the charger in China, but
- communication with the Chinese sellers was difficult
- some sellers do not wire the charger, some give connectors that are not standard
- buying an Anderson connector would have cost 40€ with shipping !
- in some cases, you probably have to pay custom taxes
- the Thunderstruck controller has pre-programmed addresses for the charger (they are used for the CAN-bus protocol). They are not alterable, and you must be sure that the charger has one of these addresses. Otten sent me the address of its charger before selling it to me, and I could check that it was compatible with the Thunderstruck controller
That is why I think that buying the charger from Otten is a better option, at least in my case.

[BamBam]

After examining many solutions, I have decided to buy my charger from Otten (Germany), where I got very kind advices and support, and where I could get the charger with all its wiring and connectors adapted to my wishes.

Very nice.  Can you please provide a link to Otten's website assuming they have one.  I could not find them using a google search.

PS - I am in the USA.  Do you think that presents a problem.

[gt13013]

It seems that sending this kind of chargers from Europe to US does not make sense. US residents can also buy them from ElCon. They are the same.

[gt13013]

Finally, I decided to build a carrying pouch for the charger inside the top case. I have used expansive foam. This foam has no adherence on polyethylene (litter bag). It makes something perfectly adapted to the top case and to the charger, and fully removable.
Take care to add spacers in order to keep a sufficient thickness of foam everywhere around the charger, such preventing it to knock the top case when riding on bumpy roads. To do that, I have temporarily glued some wood spacers to the charger during the foam expansion.
More pictures on https://photos.app.goo.gl/RdcLtzjxqsYhoVyz7

[dennis-NL]

wow, great alternative I guess for diginow.
Still I will continue with the new bellypan and one 3,3kW.

But for the expansion of two more 3.3kW in the bellypan this would be great, I mean: Germany is like 'on the block' with the Netherlands 

Can't wait to finally go really touring on the Zero like any ICE bike (with 9,9kW charging while having a break)

[BamBam]

I've followed many of the threads on this forum about charging and the Diginow system just seems too complicated and is way too expensive for my taste.  The system that GT13013 is using seems about perfect to me.  He mentioned that Elcon has a charging system that is the same as his system.  Does anyone have more information about that such as correct model #, cost, proper options, etc?  I wasn't able to glean much from Elcon's website.

[gt13013]

The model should be the HK-J-H132-32, 3.3KW UHF CAN bus charger.

You can contact Elcon from their website (I did it and they answer).