ElectricMotorcycleForum.com

  • April 23, 2024, 07:38:07 PM
  • Welcome, Guest
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Electric Motorcycle Forum is live!

Pages: [1]

Author Topic: Range Accuracy - will I make it back?  (Read 1268 times)

BatteriesIncluded

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 3
    • View Profile
Range Accuracy - will I make it back?
« on: April 26, 2018, 03:53:37 PM »

Hi Guys,

I hope to be picking up a new Zero DSR at the weekend and riding it back.
Its a 70 mile drive, mostly freeway (or dual carriage way as we call them locally) which is a bit tight on range. Should leave 8 miles spare :-)

Your the guys that would know, are Zero honest and accurate here?

My plan is to mount my cellphone on the handlebars and have it continually display the range home. If the range the Zero estimates is more than the distance home I can speed up. Less I slow down.

Its a trick that used to work well with my Vectrix and with that I didn't need to leave any margin. Aiming to get back with 0 miles remaining was fine - I think that works since the last bit of the journey is always urban and the slowest.

Is this a practical idea with the Zeros? How much spare range should I keep as a safety net?

Thanks in advance for any input.

Jeremy.
Logged

Electric Terry

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 705
    • View Profile
Re: Range Accuracy - will I make it back?
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2018, 06:12:17 PM »

Range numbers listed are accurate for City, and also for highway if you ride in a tuck position.  Many choose not to, and that's ok, you just get about 30% more aero drag (30% less range) if you ride upright.   So the Zero highway number lists the potential range you can get, which is good to know what you can do if you have to, but many times we choose not to as it is more comfortable to ride in a way that is not the most aerodynamic.

Since the 2018 DSR 14.4 has a 78 mile range at 70 mph in a tuck position you have 4 choices if you want to make it the 70 miles home with some to spare.

1) Ride home on the carriage way in the slow lane behind a big slow truck for at least the first 35 miles hopefully at 60-65 mph, no more.  If you're halfway there and you have 60% or more left, you can pass the truck and ride home faster, but it's better to conserve the first half versus being forced to the 2nd half.

2) Ride at 70 mph, but do it in a full race tuck the whole way.  It helps to stuff a sweatshirt in the front of your jacket for padding and just lay on your belly with the sweatshirt as a pillow.

3) Pick a place 20 miles from your home you can stop for a warm coffee and some food, or even to do some emails or work calls on your phone for an hour or so parking your bike somewhere with a outdoor plug.  You can filter plugshare to show you where the 110 outlets are, but there are outlets in every building that has a light bulb, you just have to learn where to look.   With a 2018 DSR you will gain 1% battery every 360 seconds (6 minutes) you are plugged in.  So you can stay plugged in until you are sure you can make it.

4) Use google maps to choose a route home but under "options" check the box for "avoid highway".  Even if it is 5-10 miles longer, if the speed is 20 miles per hour less, you will be able to go almost twice as far.  You will learn how this works over time, but going just 10 mph slower at 70 mph, can boost range 20-25%.

So you have a lot of options.  And you can combine all 4 if you want.  After you have the bike for a week all of this will seem so easy, sorry if I made it sound complicated.  The easiest thing to always do is just when in doubt about if you'll make it, is ride slower the first half to be safe.

Also a pro tip:   If the bike at the dealer has been plugged in for a while unplug it.  then turn it on and connect your phone to the bike with the Zero app.  (have the dealer show you how to pair it by holding the mode button until the Bluetooth logo on the dash flashes) Go to the battery page and look at the volts.  If it doesn't say 116, (it probably says 113, 114 or 115 which is ok) then plug it in again and let it fully top off.  It's not good to keep a battery full full full all the time, so the bike doesn't continuously keep topping itself off so full it wants to burst, but if you will be riding it shortly, its best to pack up to 5% more range into the bike by topping it off to full full full right before leaving.  You'll know when its absolutely full as the green light on the dash will stop flashing and the Zero app will read 116 volts.

You're gonna love your new DSR!  If you're anything like me and others, you will enjoy riding it so much, some days you want to ride it 500 miles or more.  And you can, you just will need to get fast chargers.  But I'll let you learn about that later.  But on your 70 mph ride home, imagine riding as fast as you want, and then 10 miles from home you just plug into 2 J plugs for about 8 minutes while you take a pee, and then you can make it the rest of the way.  It's a game changer for sure.

Good luck Jeremy and let us know how it goes!  And congrats on your new bike!
« Last Edit: April 26, 2018, 06:27:11 PM by Electric Terry »
Logged
100,000+ all electric miles on Zero Motorcycles - 75,000+ on a 2012 Zero S and 35,000+ miles on a 2015 Zero SR
http://www.facebook.com/electricterry
http://instagram.com/electricterry
https://twitter.com/electricterry

UW4E

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 42
    • View Profile
Re: Range Accuracy - will I make it back?
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2018, 06:38:07 PM »

70 miles should be no problem at all. I've a 12.5 kWh battery and very seldom have a ranger below 80 miles.
For my Iceland trip I plan with 80 miles (130 km) legs.

Most distance I get, as Terry describes, behind a truck, if it's not too cold 100 mile (160 km) is no problem.
But we have an advantage here in Germany, that the truck speed is limited to 50 mph (in reality that means 53-56 mph).  :D
I can trust my display because I avoided one of the last firmware updates.

I had a good test drive in the beginning of march:
Image 1: After accompanying Remo (world record attempt in Neustrelitz), 0 % SoC
Image 2: After a ride of 94 miles (151 km) at 32-41°F (0°-5°C), first leg of getting there, 4 % SoC
Image 3: Detailed evaluation of my trip from Stuttgart to Neustrelitz (533 miles in 2 days)

@Jeremy: I do it exactly like you. Subtracting the range displayed by the motorcycle from the distance to the destination is the main activity while riding long distances  ;D

« Last Edit: April 26, 2018, 06:44:31 PM by UW4E »
Logged
With an electric motorcycle to Iceland - June 2018:
http://www.uw4e.de


Zero S 2015 - 41,000 km / 25,800 miles since July 2016 (Status Nov '18)

BatteriesIncluded

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 3
    • View Profile
Re: Range Accuracy - will I make it back?
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2018, 07:02:53 PM »

Many thanks @UW4E and @Electric Terry for the advice. That the range figures were assuming a tuck position is not something I would have guessed at.
Some good tips there though. I am looking forward to the ride and will let you know how it works out.
Logged

Richard230

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9481
    • View Profile
Re: Range Accuracy - will I make it back?
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2018, 08:26:01 PM »

Expect the dash's range estimator to be somewhat conservative on a new bike.  After running the battery down low a few times it becomes more accurate, less conservative and will show a greater range when first starting off.  :)
Logged
Richard's motorcycle collection:  2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2020 KTM 390 Duke, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

MrDude_1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1146
    • View Profile
Re: Range Accuracy - will I make it back?
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2018, 08:28:04 PM »

As someone that both likes to go fast, and doesnt mind being a windsail I suggest just planning a long lunch/dinner somewhere near where you can plug in.
then just ride however you want, charge while eating and then you dont have to worry about it.
The better your charger, the better this method works.. if you have just a standard charger and no upgrades or options you probably want 2h or so... that would let you go as fast as you want within reason.

or just stay at 60 the whole time.
Logged

Doug S

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1626
    • View Profile
Re: Range Accuracy - will I make it back?
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2018, 10:36:49 PM »

or just stay at 60 the whole time.

When I first got my bike, and for the first year or more, I loved to make a contest out of getting home after my commute with an ever-higher SoC indication on the dashboard. Could I break my previous record?

It got old. You can ALWAYS extend your range, and there's no trick or deep dark secret to it. Just ride slower.

Kinda takes the fun right out of it, but it sure works if you need to extend your range.
Logged
There's no better alarm clock than sunlight on asphalt.

BrianTRice@gmail.com

  • Unofficial Zero Manual Editor
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4014
  • Nerdy Adventurer
    • View Profile
    • Personal site
Re: Range Accuracy - will I make it back?
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2018, 03:09:46 AM »

The range figures also work without a tuck and even improve a bit (say 10%) if you add a windscreen.

There is an unofficial wiki for Zeros with some guidance on this. Windscreen choice is largely about ergonomics, and avoiding buffeting around your helmet depends on your personal rider height. My take is "go big, go streamlined" as much as possible.

https://zeromanual.com/index.php/Potential_Buyers_Guide
https://zeromanual.com/index.php/Zero_Aftermarket#Windscreens
Logged
Current: 2020 DSR, 2012 Suzuki V-Strom
Former: 2016 DSR, 2013 DS

BatteriesIncluded

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 3
    • View Profile
Re: Range Accuracy - will I make it back?
« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2018, 02:32:43 AM »

As it turned out the registration plate didnt arrive in time for the weekend pickup. By way of an apology the dealer (Alec at English Electric Motor Co) drove it round in person on his van after closing up shop for the day.

This turned out to be a lucky break for me as the weather has been ugly mix of rain and strong winds the past few days.

So I now have a very shiny new bike sitting clean and dry in my garage, and really looking forward to going for a ride tomorrow.
Logged

UW4E

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 42
    • View Profile
Re: Range Accuracy - will I make it back?
« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2018, 07:01:29 PM »

Here is my experience from the journey described above in a diagram.
At each destination I wrote down (with the camera of my mobile :D) the values of trip average and km.
The sum of driven km + the displayed remaining range give the values on the x-axis.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2018, 07:05:17 PM by UW4E »
Logged
With an electric motorcycle to Iceland - June 2018:
http://www.uw4e.de


Zero S 2015 - 41,000 km / 25,800 miles since July 2016 (Status Nov '18)

cat33

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 5
    • View Profile
Re: Range Accuracy - will I make it back?
« Reply #10 on: May 27, 2018, 09:21:42 PM »

Hi to all of you
Recently I came back from a very long trip (165km) on my 2014 SR 11.4. I just went out of juice 3 km before my arrival at home. Normally I never ride the bike in such low battery stages. The display still showed up a range of 12 kilometers and a SOC of 6%. During acceleration the range and SOC dropped suddenly to zero. I could not restart the bike. Is there a possibility of a problem with my bike or is this behavior known to you? Could it be a wrong calibration of the display? In general I'm very happy with the achieved range.
Logged

ultrarnr

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 836
    • View Profile
Re: Range Accuracy - will I make it back?
« Reply #11 on: May 29, 2018, 02:27:38 AM »

cat33,

What you described is not uncommon with 2014 Zero's. Mine dropped from 17% to 0% once and I never took it on a long trip again. Bottom line is the algorithms used were just not very good.  I traded my 2014 SR in on a 2016 SR shortly after that and a large part of the reason was I didn't trust the 2014 any more. There is a lot on this forum about some of the challenges the older Zero's had. Zero had a lot more experience and feedback to make the 2016s and new bikes a lot better than the older ones.
Logged

heroto

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 381
    • View Profile
Re: Range Accuracy - will I make it back?
« Reply #12 on: May 29, 2018, 08:52:58 AM »

Temperature matters. If it's chilly, range is less.
Logged

cat33

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 5
    • View Profile
Re: Range Accuracy - will I make it back?
« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2018, 03:39:23 AM »

Hi ultrarnr
Thank you for your reply. At least I know now that I'm not alone with this situation. Interesting was today when I stopped riding the bike the SOC was around 50%. Without charging I continued riding after roughly half a hour. At this point the display showed only 40%. It looks like the displayed numbers are inconsistent and 2014 owners have to live with it.
Logged

Richard230

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9481
    • View Profile
Re: Range Accuracy - will I make it back?
« Reply #14 on: May 30, 2018, 04:06:08 AM »

Hi ultrarnr
Thank you for your reply. At least I know now that I'm not alone with this situation. Interesting was today when I stopped riding the bike the SOC was around 50%. Without charging I continued riding after roughly half a hour. At this point the display showed only 40%. It looks like the displayed numbers are inconsistent and 2014 owners have to live with it.

I never had any such issue with my 2014 S with Power Tank.  The SOC display was very accurate and it is still working perfectly for my daughter who now owns the bike.  Although it now struggles to reach any SOC over 92%, the bike will still will run over 100 miles, staying within highway speed limits, without hitting 0%.  If I recall correctly, the 2014 S is running firmware revision was 36 and had never been updated since leaving the factory.
Logged
Richard's motorcycle collection:  2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2020 KTM 390 Duke, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.
Pages: [1]