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[endurocalypse]

I've a 2015 Zero FX that I bought used with around 5000km. I rode it for around 3000km now and had the following problem multiple times:

When accelerating or riding high speeds, the engine cuts off. Dash and light stays on, no Torque or Regen. Cycling main power switch doesn't help. Need to turn the key back and forth to fully "powercycle" the bike and get it working again.  Sometimes this doesn't happen for days, sometimes it happens a few times within a couple minutes.

This also comes with a extremely high fluctuation in displayed range with 100% charge (sometimes 80km, 20km, 40km, 15km).

I found a number of threads from people describing the exact same problem (or very similar), along with info on a 2013 recall for faulty controller firmware that caused the same issue. Unfortunately it is not clear from those  threads what the origin of the issue was or if it was resolved. My FX is with a local Zero dealer since about a month now and Zero Europe claims they cannot find a problem. So my question is:

Did anyone who had the same problem got it resolved and has information on what the actual reason was/is? This is handled by Zero Europe, should I maybe E-Mail Zero US directly with this problem to maybe get it resolved?

I'd appreciate any guidance/information/experience as it doesn't seem like Zero is moving forward with this anytime soon :-/

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

Could you run your logs through a parser like at http://keith-thomas.com/zero-log-parser.html or https://zero-motorcycle-community.github.io/ and maybe show a section where you identified it happening?

A high fluctuation in displayed range has been discussed regarding BMS firmware versions applied in the last 12 months, but I'm not sure how that would correlate with a controller fault (I guess if the current demand changes rapidly, it makes sense indirectly).

Maybe there's a fault in your Bitron throttle or the wiring. Try checking for continuity or strain.

I wish Zero representatives would stop using language like "cannot find a problem". They seem to mean "we don't have direct evidence we can responsibly act on" because logs (as Zero has implemented them) have an inherent limitation to diagnosis.

[Leptonic]

Hi,

I have the same problem. It appeared shortly after I purchased my 2015 FX last summer (in July 2018).

Looking at the log files, it appears that the voltage of one of the two battery modules drops faster than the other and when the difference in voltage exceeds a certain limit, the bike disables the throttle. You then have to power cycle the bike to restart it.

The bike has been at the workshop on several occasions. Zero Europe updated the firmware the first time (it did not solve the issue). Then Zero replaced one of the BMS. It solved the issue for a few hundred km, but now the problem is back again 

I tested each battery independently and realized that one battery is more powerful than the other (despite having both been manufactured the same year, in 2014). I get the feeling that the BMS or system that manages both BMS is unable to handle major differences in power/behavior between the two battery modules. What I do not understand is why Zero does not just put the bike in limp mode (e.g. isolate one of the two batteries and let the bike run in limp mode on just one battery - ideally the healthier one of the two.)

I am brining the bike back to the workshop. I am hoping that Zero will be able to find a definite solution to the problem as the unexpected throttle disable events can be dangerous if it happens in heavy traffic or at a critical junction, for instances. I love the FX, but have naturally lost confidence in it as a result.

Will keep you posted on progress.

Here are the details of the logs. You can see the voltage drop on one module (106V vs. 109V). It can happen at any SoC, at any load, in ECO or SPORT mode. Totally random.

 07817     04/15/2019 06:47:51   WARNING: Max allowed voltage difference is 500mV
 07818     04/15/2019 06:48:42   Riding                     PackTemp: h 22C, l 19C, PackSOC: 80%, Vpack:109.442V, MotAmps:  84, BattAmps:  57, Mods: 11, MotTemp:  35C, CtrlTemp:  24C, AmbTemp:  22C, MotRPM:2448, Odo:11159km
 07819     04/15/2019 06:49:42   Riding                     PackTemp: h 23C, l 19C, PackSOC: 79%, Vpack:109.372V, MotAmps: 103, BattAmps:  84, Mods: 11, MotTemp:  38C, CtrlTemp:  24C, AmbTemp:  20C, MotRPM:2956, Odo:11159km
 07820     04/15/2019 06:50:42   Riding                     PackTemp: h 23C, l 19C, PackSOC: 78%, Vpack:109.360V, MotAmps: -25, BattAmps: -14, Mods: 11, MotTemp:  39C, CtrlTemp:  22C, AmbTemp:  20C, MotRPM:2071, Odo:11160km
 07821     04/15/2019 06:51:42   Riding                     PackTemp: h 23C, l 19C, PackSOC: 78%, Vpack:109.319V, MotAmps:  16, BattAmps:   7, Mods: 11, MotTemp:  40C, CtrlTemp:  22C, AmbTemp:  19C, MotRPM:2565, Odo:11161km
 07822     04/15/2019 06:52:42   Riding                     PackTemp: h 24C, l 19C, PackSOC: 77%, Vpack:109.270V, MotAmps: 155, BattAmps:  62, Mods: 11, MotTemp:  40C, CtrlTemp:  21C, AmbTemp:  19C, MotRPM:1375, Odo:11162km
 07823     04/15/2019 06:53:30   DEBUG: Module scheme changed from Running mode to Stopped mode
 07824     04/15/2019 06:53:30   DEBUG: Module mode Change Does Not Require Disconnect
 07825     04/15/2019 06:53:34   DEBUG: Module scheme changed from Stopped mode to Running mode
 07826     04/15/2019 06:53:34   DEBUG: Module mode Change Does Not Require Disconnect
 07827     04/15/2019 06:53:42   Riding                     PackTemp: h 24C, l 19C, PackSOC: 77%, Vpack:109.250V, MotAmps:   0, BattAmps:   0, Mods: 11, MotTemp:  42C, CtrlTemp:  21C, AmbTemp:  19C, MotRPM:   0, Odo:11162km
 07828     04/15/2019 06:53:45   Power Off                  Key Switch
 07829     04/15/2019 06:53:45   Sevcon Turned Off
 07830     04/15/2019 06:53:45   Module 00 Opening Contactor  vmod: 109.249V, batt curr:   0A
 07831     04/15/2019 06:53:45   Module 01 Opening Contactor  vmod: 106.418V, batt curr:   0A
 07832     04/15/2019 06:53:45   INFO:  Disabling External Chg 0 Charger 2
 07833     04/15/2019 06:53:45   INFO:  Disabling External Chg 1 Charger 3
 07834     04/15/2019 06:53:46   CPU Soft Reset:            Power Down Interrupted by Key On
 07835                       0   DEBUG: Reset: Software
 07836                       0   BMS Reset                  Software
 07837                       0   Key On
 07838                       0   DEBUG: Module scheme changed from None mode to Stopped mode
 07839                       0   Module 00 Opening Contactor  vmod:   0.000V, batt curr:   0A
 07840                       0   Module 01 Opening Contactor  vmod:   0.000V, batt curr:   0A
 07841                       0   DEBUG: Module scheme changed from Stopped mode to Running mode
 07842                       0   Module 01 CAN Link Up
 07843                       0   Module 01 Registered       serial: 14sg0908,  vmod: 106.435V
 07844     04/15/2019 06:51:29   Module 00 CAN Link Up
 07845     04/15/2019 06:51:29   Module 01 CAN Link Down
 07846     04/15/2019 06:51:29   Sevcon Turned On
 07847     04/15/2019 06:51:29   Module 00 CAN Link Down
 07848     04/15/2019 06:51:29   Module 01 CAN Link Up
 07849     04/15/2019 06:51:29   Module 00 CAN Link Up
 07850     04/15/2019 06:51:29   Module 00 Registered       serial: 14sg0870,  vmod: 109.296V

[zorida]

Late to the party, but I've got exactly the same problem and the same logs.

It happens to me in precise situations: low speed, almost always once, some seconds after I turn on the bike, and apparently when the bike meets a fast change of vertical angle because of some ground steep descent or some concave manhole (!)

Any help or suggestion is HIGHLY appreciated since this can turn out very dangerous.

Zero S 2015

Thank you

[Auriga]

I'd really hesitate to diagnose your issues based on other people's logs. And posting your logs is always helpful in diagnosing these. There are a lot of potential causes that produce the same results.

For instance, leptonic's logs do not seem to indicate a voltage issue, significantly aged batteries will diverge in voltage, and that warning is fairly common. If it were in my shop I'd want the BMS logs from each module, to check why the BMS switched modes.

As far as I know a significant voltage divergence would result in a battery opening the contactor and would require disconnect.

Things that could cause this include, but are not limited to: Faulty ignition switch, faulty kill switch, intermittent wire harness issues, defective bmses in one of the modules, one battery being significantly more aged than the other, etc.

Late to the party, but I've got exactly the same problem and the same logs.

It happens to me in precise situations: low speed, almost always once, some seconds after I turn on the bike, and apparently when the bike meets a fast change of vertical angle because of some ground steep descent or some concave manhole (!)

Any help or suggestion is HIGHLY appreciated since this can turn out very dangerous.

Zero S 2015

Thank you

Yours sounds like either a bad kill switch, ignition switch, or harness issue, since it seems to happen in specific orientations. Logs could eliminate the ignition switch and shed some light on things.

[Electric junkie]

Hi there .
Not sure if one came up with a final answer or solution to rectify this irregular cutting out of the power ,yet bike stays live senario.
I seem to have an identical problem on my 2014 fx with dual batteries.
When my bikes cuts out in the middle of my ride and I come to a standstill in the middle of traffic I am hoping that a simple switch off and on will rectify the problem , but that does not always fix the problem .
I find that when it has come to a standstill that the motor is fighting with itself shuddering and sometimes nudging into pushing backwards .
If anyone has any solutions , if you could please share them with me .
I live in johannesburg South africa and currently have no Zero agencies around
Regards Steven .

[Crissa]

That sounds like it needs the motor controller or motor commissioning checked.

The timing of the AC power has to be just right to make the motor go.  If it the magnets are out of alignment or the controller is unable to produce the right signal, it would be bad.

-Crissa

[Auriga]

It also could be a defective motor encoder, or a dirty motor encoder cable, or a failing motor/controller.

The Zero dealer locator shows a service center nearby, I have no idea if they are still in business.

Other than trying to locate the encoder cable connector and making sure it is clean, everything else either requires Zero dealer software or new parts.

[Electric junkie]

Thank you very much for your response .
I will definitely give attention to the suggestions you have made .
We used to have an agent in Johannesburg and that is where I purchased this bike ,  but they closed their doors a couple of years ago

Steven 

[Electric junkie]

     01/30/2021 10:57:56   Module 00 CAN Link Up   
 04449     01/30/2021 10:57:56   Module 00                  serial: 15sg0108,  vmod: 111.591V
 04450     01/30/2021 11:29:41   Module 00 CAN Link Down   
 04451     01/30/2021 11:29:41   Module 01 CAN Link Down   
 04452     01/30/2021 11:29:41   Sevcon Turned On   
 04453     01/30/2021 11:29:41   Module 00 CAN Link Up   
 04454     01/30/2021 11:29:41   Module 01 CAN Link Up   
 04455     01/30/2021 11:29:42   Sevcon CAN Link Up   
 04456     01/30/2021 11:29:42   DEBUG: Sevcon Contactor Drive ON.   
 04457     01/30/2021 11:29:42   Module 00                  vmod: 111.536maxsys: 111.576 minsys: 111.522 diff: 0.053999999999987836 vcap: 100.75 prechg: 90.32957968727585%
 04458     01/30/2021 11:29:42   Module 01                  vmod: 111.564maxsys: 111.576 minsys: 111.522 diff: 0.053999999999987836 vcap: 100.75 prechg: 90.30690903875802%
 04459     01/30/2021 11:29:42   DEBUG: Module 00 Contactor is now Closed   
 04460     01/30/2021 11:29:42   DEBUG: Module 01 Contactor is now Closed   
 04461     01/30/2021 11:29:42   INFO:  Enabling Charger 2   
 04462     01/30/2021 11:29:42   INFO:  Enabling Charger 3   
 04463     01/30/2021 11:29:45   CIB timeout: 5012 ms   
 04464     01/30/2021 11:29:50   Disarmed                   PackTemp: h 23C, l 21C, PackSOC: 86%, Vpack:111.554V, MotAmps:   0, BattAmps:   0, Mods: 11, MotTemp:  26C, CtrlTemp:  22C, AmbTemp:  24C, MotRPM:   0, Odo: 2103km
 04465     01/30/2021 11:30:50   Disarmed                   PackTemp: h 23C, l 21C, PackSOC: 86%, Vpack:111.515V, MotAmps:   0, BattAmps:   0, Mods: 11, MotTemp:  26C, CtrlTemp:  22C, AmbTemp:  24C, MotRPM:   0, Odo: 2103km
 04466     01/30/2021 11:31:43   0x37 0xb2 0x22 0x3c    
 04467     01/30/2021 11:31:50   Disarmed                   PackTemp: h 23C, l 21C, PackSOC: 86%, Vpack:111.486V, MotAmps:   0, BattAmps:   0, Mods: 11, MotTemp:  26C, CtrlTemp:  22C, AmbTemp:  24C, MotRPM:   0, Odo: 2103km
 04468     01/30/2021 11:32:50   Disarmed                   PackTemp: h 23C, l 21C, PackSOC: 86%, Vpack:111.468V, MotAmps:   0, BattAmps:   0, Mods: 11, MotTemp:  26C, CtrlTemp:  22C, AmbTemp:  24C, MotRPM:   0, Odo: 2103km
 04469     01/30/2021 11:33:50   Disarmed                   PackTemp: h 23C, l 21C, PackSOC: 86%, Vpack:111.449V, MotAmps:   0, BattAmps:   0, Mods: 11, MotTemp:  26C, CtrlTemp:  22C, AmbTemp:  24C, MotRPM:   0, Odo: 2103km
 04470     01/30/2021 11:34:50   Disarmed                   PackTemp: h 23C, l 22C, PackSOC: 86%, Vpack:111.427V, MotAmps:   0, BattAmps:   0, Mods: 11, MotTemp:  26C, CtrlTemp:  22C, AmbTemp:  24C, MotRPM:   0, Odo: 2103km
 04471     01/30/2021 11:35:50   Disarmed                   PackTemp: h 23C, l 21C, PackSOC: 86%, Vpack:111.407V, MotAmps:   0, BattAmps:   0, Mods: 11, MotTemp:  26C, CtrlTemp:  22C, AmbTemp:  24C, MotRPM:   0, Odo: 2103km
 04472     01/30/2021 11:36:50   Disarmed                   PackTemp: h 23C, l 21C, PackSOC: 86%, Vpack:111.389V, MotAmps:   0, BattAmps:   0, Mods: 11, MotTemp:  26C, CtrlTemp:  22C, AmbTemp:  24C, MotRPM:   0, Odo: 2103km
 04473     01/30/2021 11:37:50   Disarmed                   PackTemp: h 23C, l 22C, PackSOC: 86%, Vpack:111.373V, MotAmps:   0, BattAmps:   0, Mods: 11, MotTemp:  26C, CtrlTemp:  22C, AmbTemp:  24C, MotRPM:   0, Odo: 2103km
 04474     01/30/2021 11:38:20   DEBUG: Module scheme changed from Stopped mode to Running mode   
 04475     01/30/2021 11:38:20   DEBUG: Module mode Change Does Not Require Disconnect   
 04476     01/30/2021 11:38:50   Riding                     PackTemp: h 23C, l 22C, PackSOC: 86%, Vpack:111.301V, MotAmps:   0, BattAmps:   0, Mods: 11, MotTemp:  27C, CtrlTemp:  24C, AmbTemp:  24C, MotRPM:   0, Odo: 2103km
 04477     01/30/2021 11:39:10   DEBUG: Module scheme changed from Running mode to Stopped mode   
 04478     01/30/2021 11:39:10   DEBUG: Module mode Change Does Not Require Disconnect   
 04479     01/30/2021 11:39:28   DEBUG: Module scheme changed from Stopped mode to Running mode   
 04480     01/30/2021 11:39:28   DEBUG: Module mode Change Does Not Require Disconnect   
 04481     01/30/2021 11:39:49   DEBUG: Module scheme changed from Running mode to Stopped mode   
 04482     01/30/2021 11:39:49   DEBUG: Module mode Change Does Not Require Disconnect   
 04483     01/30/2021 11:39:50   Disarmed                   PackTemp: h 23C, l 22C, PackSOC: 86%, Vpack:111.291V, MotAmps:   0, BattAmps:   0, Mods: 11, MotTemp:  29C, CtrlTemp:  23C, AmbTemp:  24C, MotRPM:   5, Odo: 2103km
 04484     01/30/2021 11:40:19   0x37

[Electric junkie]

This log above  is the one when my zero bike that was unwilling to operate at all on the 2021/01/30.
Who would be able to identify from the log what the problem in question is ?

Regards Steven

[Kappi]

04466     01/30/2021 11:31:43   0x37 0xb2 0x22 0x3c

That is an error code, isn't it?
Did the dash show any error Codes when the bike quit on you?

[Electric junkie]

Nope .
Dash showing no error issues.
On a normal day my bike would run , but on the 2021-01-30 it did not manage and it was unwilling to move at all .
Motor making a funny humming sound and unwilling to propell me forward .
And tomorrow the issue would be gone again and drive like a normal electric bike without issue.
So the issue comes and goes for no  obvious reason

[Electric junkie]

04466     01/30/2021 11:31:43   0x37 0xb2 0x22 0x3c
If that is an error code , how do I line that up with the published error codes from 1.......60 ?
Sorry for all the questions , but I am completely  untrained for identifying or reading any codes from those bike and battery logs .

[ELEC_CRAZY]

Nope .
Dash showing no error issues.
On a normal day my bike would run , but on the 2021-01-30 it did not manage and it was unwilling to move at all .
Motor making a funny humming sound and unwilling to propell me forward .
And tomorrow the issue would be gone again and drive like a normal electric bike without issue.
So the issue comes and goes for no  obvious reason

"Motor making a funny humming sound and unwilling to propell me forward"

That different from what you told at your first message.. now its sounds more like motor encoder or his connection like Auriga replied,
With electronics like that, we need to know the Accurate behavior if not, it can be lots of things..

P.S
change the display (At the dash) so you will be able to see Error codes and keep watching it while driving..
https://zeromanual.com/wiki/Gen2/Error_Codes