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[dvdt]

I noticed starting last October (a few weeks after end of 2 years of ownership) that charging my 2014 S with the on-board charger would not always reach 100%. Since October, this incomplete charging has progressively worsened to be every charging session, and decreasing level of maximum charge (as displayed on the instrument panel). With the external Quiq charger (alone or in tandem with the on-board charger), I can reach a display value of 100%, which appears to implicate the on-board charger.

While the decreased level of charge is as yet a nuisance (the on-board charger now only reaches 96%), the trend is not favorable. Has anyone experience to share regarding changes in rate of degradation, or observed the failure to be catastrophic (either in the sense of damaging other components on the motorcycle or step wise with a risk of being left with an unexpected very long walk)? For reference, based on my typical commute trip, I estimate that the on-board charger has seen ~600 cycles of use over ~24.5k miles. If anyone has replaced the on-board charger out of pocket and is willing to share the cost of replacement and duration of the service at a dealer, that would be appreciated.

[Richard230]

I noticed starting last October (a few weeks after end of 2 years of ownership) that charging my 2014 S with the on-board charger would not always reach 100%. Since October, this incomplete charging has progressively worsened to be every charging session, and decreasing level of maximum charge (as displayed on the instrument panel). With the external Quiq charger (alone or in tandem with the on-board charger), I can reach a display value of 100%, which appears to implicate the on-board charger.

While the decreased level of charge is as yet a nuisance (the on-board charger now only reaches 96%), the trend is not favorable. Has anyone experience to share regarding changes in rate of degradation, or observed the failure to be catastrophic (either in the sense of damaging other components on the motorcycle or step wise with a risk of being left with an unexpected very long walk)? For reference, based on my typical commute trip, I estimate that the on-board charger has seen ~600 cycles of use over ~24.5k miles. If anyone has replaced the on-board charger out of pocket and is willing to share the cost of replacement and duration of the service at a dealer, that would be appreciated.

That same thing happened to my 2014 S, starting last summer.  Using the on-board charger, it first would stop charging at 98%, which then dropped to 96% and when I gave the bike to my daughter, it would stop charging at 92%, however, if you kept the charger plugged in it would increase about 2% each day, until 98% was reached.  But as soon as I started riding, the display would quickly show 96% and then 94%, when it would stabilize and start discharging (according to the display) normally. My daughter pulls the plug when the display shows 92%, upon completion of the balancing program, and she rides it at that level.

There have been no changes within the past 4 months and the display continues to cut off at 92%, however the bike still has very good range and she is not complaining about the indicated 8% drop in apparent battery pack capacity. I have no idea why this is happening, however until last summer I always kept the charger plugged in and the change, probably coincidentally, started dropping once I began following Zero's advice to unplug the charger once recharging was complete.

I might add that my 2014 bike never had its factory firmware updated and I think it still has version 36, if I recall correctly.

[mericle]

I had similar issues with my 2014 S charger. It did suddenly stop charging to 96%. It started taking 24hrs to charge from 27% to 75%. I attempted to have it repaired but the issue was somewhat intermittent and did not show up when the shop tested it. I recommend that you collect the MBB event logs associated with charging times before you bring it in for repair. Also, make sure that you have ready details of the voltage at the outlet that you use to charge the bike. Once Zero agreed that the charger was bad, I waited until the charger was physically at the shop and it only took them a few hours to replace it. I haven't seen the issue since the charger was replaced several years ago.

[MrDude_1]

instead of trying to diagnose the charger from a battery percentage, you need to look at the pack voltage.
If the charger is not reaching the full pack voltage, it has an issue.
if it is, but the percentage is wrong, then its just the display.

[Richard230]

instead of trying to diagnose the charger from a battery percentage, you need to look at the pack voltage.
If the charger is not reaching the full pack voltage, it has an issue.
if it is, but the percentage is wrong, then its just the display.

In the case of my daughter's Zero, when the charger stops at 92%, the battery voltage shows 113 Volts on the Zero app. When the bike was new, the charging would stop at 100% and the battery voltage would show 117 volts on the Zero app.

[mericle]

instead of trying to diagnose the charger from a battery percentage, you need to look at the pack voltage.
If the charger is not reaching the full pack voltage, it has an issue.
if it is, but the percentage is wrong, then its just the display.

In the case of my daughter's Zero, when the charger stops at 92%, the battery voltage shows 113 Volts on the Zero app. When the bike was new, the charging would stop at 100% and the battery voltage would show 117 volts on the Zero app.

Same here. The voltage tracked with the displayed and logged percentage.

[hubert]

So is mine 2014S. End of charge 95%, 113V, 3mV cell imbalance.

[MrDude_1]

instead of trying to diagnose the charger from a battery percentage, you need to look at the pack voltage.
If the charger is not reaching the full pack voltage, it has an issue.
if it is, but the percentage is wrong, then its just the display.

In the case of my daughter's Zero, when the charger stops at 92%, the battery voltage shows 113 Volts on the Zero app. When the bike was new, the charging would stop at 100% and the battery voltage would show 117 volts on the Zero app.

If its under warranty... take it to the dealer.
If its not... remove the charger from the bike, jumper it to on, put a low load on it, and check the output voltage. Then either fix or replace it.

[Richard230]

instead of trying to diagnose the charger from a battery percentage, you need to look at the pack voltage.
If the charger is not reaching the full pack voltage, it has an issue.
if it is, but the percentage is wrong, then its just the display.

In the case of my daughter's Zero, when the charger stops at 92%, the battery voltage shows 113 Volts on the Zero app. When the bike was new, the charging would stop at 100% and the battery voltage would show 117 volts on the Zero app.

If its under warranty... take it to the dealer.
If its not... remove the charger from the bike, jumper it to on, put a low load on it, and check the output voltage. Then either fix or replace it.

The 2014 Zero has been out of warranty for some time and that includes the battery pack.  It is quite possible that the on-board charger might be having a slow meltdown, but my daughter is happy with the bike's current performance and doesn't want to spend any money on fixing the problem as she needs to not only buy a new home, but also has two daughters who are in college this year. That doesn't leave a lot of loose change for charger replacement.    So I will let someone else experiment with this battery pack degrading syndrome.

[MrDude_1]

The 2014 Zero has been out of warranty for some time and that includes the battery pack.  It is quite possible that the on-board charger might be having a slow meltdown, but my daughter is happy with the bike's current performance and doesn't want to spend any money on fixing the problem as she needs to not only buy a new home, but also has two daughters who are in college this year. That doesn't leave a lot of loose change for charger replacement.    So I will let someone else experiment with this battery pack degrading syndrome.

Totally understandable.
The upside is its not battery pack degradation.... It actually will last longer since its not fully charged. The range will be less because it started out with less charge, but the battery itself will be better preserved.
When the time comes, its also possible to repair the existing one, or even just adjust it for drift... if thats the case.
Plus you dont have to go to zero for a replacement.

[hubert]

If its not... remove the charger from the bike, jumper it to on, put a low load on it, and check the output voltage. Then either fix or replace it.

Hello Mister Dude. Do you know if the charger "just charges" when it is connected to mains on one side and on a load or battery on the other side, like any ordinary chargers? Or maybe does it need some CAN bus discussion with a "master" to make sure he has the right to charge, prior to applying energy to its output? In the latter case, the test would be much more complicated.

[MrDude_1]

If its not... remove the charger from the bike, jumper it to on, put a low load on it, and check the output voltage. Then either fix or replace it.

Hello Mister Dude. Do you know if the charger "just charges" when it is connected to mains on one side and on a load or battery on the other side, like any ordinary chargers? Or maybe does it need some CAN bus discussion with a "master" to make sure he has the right to charge, prior to applying energy to its output? In the latter case, the test would be much more complicated.

That isnt really more complicated. An Arduino with a CAN shield would work.... that said, its just a jumper on his 2013. Im not sure about the 2016 and newer bikes, but the charger itself hasnt changed, so I wouldnt expect it to work differently.

[hubert]

OK guys,

I swept through all my logs since I own that 2014 S (14 months now), and picked up the end-of charge voltage as shown in the log file. Made a graph of this voltage vs date, please see attached.

The evolution tendency is quite clear. where will it stop sinking? Or will the charger completely breakdown suddenly?

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

Thanks for charting that. Onboard charger troubleshooting and prediction would be good to improve.

[Richard230]

Thanks for charting that. Onboard charger troubleshooting and prediction would be good to improve.

Is that the way a charger fails?  Or could it be one or more failing cells in the battery pack that are reaching an excessively high voltage and that causes the BMS to shut the charger off?  In my case, I found that the charger would cut off at 92%, but if you left it plugged in for a few more days, the voltage would increase about 2% a day, until 98% would be indicated, at which time I would pull the plug and go riding.