ElectricMotorcycleForum.com

  • January 18, 2018, 03:49:01 AM
  • Welcome, Guest
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Electric Motorcycle Forum is live!

Pages: 1 [2] 3

Author Topic: What do we want for 2019?  (Read 678 times)

Richard230

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4986
    • View Profile
Re: What do we want for 2019?
« Reply #15 on: January 12, 2018, 09:11:58 PM »

I know that it was mentioned above, but traction control (like the BMW C-Evolution has) would be a very nice addition.  More than once, I have had my rear wheel spin on damp pavement, or when riding over a painted line or manhole, and cause the rear wheel to step out and the entire bike shake violently for a second or two.  Kind of scary and I don't even have an SR, which really must suffer this issue.

Isnt your 2018 S technically as powerful as an SR, with the same 600AMP motor?

My S apparently uses an updated Sevcon controller that will put out 550 amps for a few seconds.  I think I read somewhere that it is good for 200 amps, continuous. I believe that the SR uses a more powerful controller that will produce more power from the motor, at least for a while until things start getting too hot.  (I don't know how much difference the different motor magnets used in the S and SR motors make during power production in the long run, but I am sure that the SR can likely generate more power than an S for a longer period of time.)  ???

In any case, it doesn't feel any faster than did my 2014 S, with its 400 amp controller.  However, it would be interesting if someone would test the stock Zeros at a drag strip to see how much difference there is between an S and an SR.  I can tell you that both my 2014 and 2018 models feel really heavy with their power tanks in place of the stock stuff box. I believe that the 2018 S weighs 452 pounds, about 10 more than the 2014 S (likely due to the better suspension components and the ABS system). In any case, there is quite a variation in weight between the various Zero models based upon the batteries installed and that would likely have a considerable impact on acceleration (and handling), but probably not top speed.   ???
Logged
Richard's motorcycle collection:  2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2005 Triumph T-100 Bonneville, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

stevenh

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 120
  • Newington NH
    • View Profile
Re: What do we want for 2019?
« Reply #16 on: January 12, 2018, 09:15:05 PM »

Having nearly a million miles under my belt I have never ever seen the need for traction control on a street motorcycle.  ABS yes... but traction control?  You have all the traction control you need in your right wrist if you know how to use it.  Learn how to "read the road."  If anything looks shiny or wet up ahead then back off the throttle.  It is THAT simple.  If Zero is going to add any technology to their bikes, I'd rather it be something USEFUL.

Some of those things include:

Vectrix-like regen (proportional to roll-off).
Aerodynamics (to reduce wind resistance)
Faster charge times
Brighter colors (like the good old days)
A shop manual!!!!
Better dealer network

I have a different opinion on traction control.  I have dumped the bike once when traversing a puddle in my driveway under acceleration, it seems the bike has a real tendency to kick the tire out while spinning, more so than any other bike I have had.  I've also had some bad experiences with paint at intersections.  While I agree some of this simply due to overdoing it on my part, there is no reason NOT to include traction control on an electronic speed controlled vehicle (as an option).   Has anyone else noticed the tendency for the wheel to kick out really quickly?  Anything that helps keep me off the pavement is "useful" in my book!

Steve

« Last Edit: January 12, 2018, 09:17:25 PM by stevenh »
Logged
2016 DSR

Richard230

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4986
    • View Profile
Re: What do we want for 2019?
« Reply #17 on: January 12, 2018, 09:16:22 PM »

Having nearly a million miles under my belt I have never ever seen the need for traction control on a street motorcycle.  ABS yes... but traction control?  You have all the traction control you need in your right wrist if you know how to use it.  Learn how to "read the road."  If anything looks shiny or wet up ahead then back off the throttle.  It is THAT simple.  If Zero is going to add any technology to their bikes, I'd rather it be something USEFUL.

Some of those things include:

Vectrix-like regen (proportional to roll-off).
Aerodynamics (to reduce wind resistance)
Faster charge times
Brighter colors (like the good old days)
A shop manual!!!!
Better dealer network

That is about the same for me. I have ridden IC motorcycles for about 800,000 miles and never spun a rear wheel.  However, I have found that the Zero produces power so much differently than my IC bikes that I am having difficulty estimating the traction available from the rear tire under adverse conditions. I am just not getting the same feedback as I do with an IC motorcycle, which is why I would appreciate a traction control system.
Logged
Richard's motorcycle collection:  2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2005 Triumph T-100 Bonneville, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

Richard230

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4986
    • View Profile
Re: What do we want for 2019?
« Reply #18 on: January 12, 2018, 09:17:34 PM »

Having nearly a million miles under my belt I have never ever seen the need for traction control on a street motorcycle.  ABS yes... but traction control?  You have all the traction control you need in your right wrist if you know how to use it.  Learn how to "read the road."  If anything looks shiny or wet up ahead then back off the throttle.  It is THAT simple.  If Zero is going to add any technology to their bikes, I'd rather it be something USEFUL.

Some of those things include:

Vectrix-like regen (proportional to roll-off).
Aerodynamics (to reduce wind resistance)
Faster charge times
Brighter colors (like the good old days)
A shop manual!!!!
Better dealer network

I have a different opinion on traction control.  I have dumped the bike once when traversing a puddle in my driveway under acceleration, it seems the bike has a real tendency to kick the tire out while spinning, more so than any other bike I have had.  I've also had some bad experiences with paint at intersections.  While I agree some of this simply due to overdoing it on my part, there is no reason NOT to include traction control on an electronic speed controlled vehicle (as an option).   Has anyone else noticed the tendency for the wheel to kick out really quickly?

Steve

I certainly have.   :o
Logged
Richard's motorcycle collection:  2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2005 Triumph T-100 Bonneville, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

heroto

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 18
    • View Profile
Re: What do we want for 2019?
« Reply #19 on: January 12, 2018, 10:03:59 PM »

Please offer cornering ABS, switchable TC, and electronic cruise control, thank you very much.
And the semi active suspensions on BMWs and Ducatis tranform the bikes. If you haven't ridden one, try it on a rough road. You will be amazed!
« Last Edit: January 12, 2018, 11:25:59 PM by heroto »
Logged

Fred

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 234
    • View Profile
Re: What do we want for 2019?
« Reply #20 on: January 12, 2018, 11:00:45 PM »

I'd like a bit more control over how the power is mapped, for those who decide we like it a little less tame. My FXS should be a wheelie monster but it isn't. Ludicrous mode (with disclaimer) is what I want!

With regard to traction control I've only had the bike spin up unexpectedly once. I was bolt upright on a wet road and have it a full handful. All I noticed was an odd ziiiiiiiip noise. As it was upright nothing dramatic happened and it took a second or so for me to realise the back had broken loose. Could it be the lack of an audible signal (i.e. engine revs rising) that makes an electric bike trickier when it loses traction?
Logged

Keith

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 238
    • View Profile
Re: What do we want for 2019?
« Reply #21 on: January 13, 2018, 12:06:18 AM »

Yes something like traction control would be nice. My experience with FX off road in very gnarly conditions is that the bike breaks loose and the rear wheel spins up very quickly compared to even an open class two stroke. Off road riding is all about sliding and wheel spinning so a pavement oriented system would probably be just as useful as ABS off road (turn it off!). But some RPM rate of change limiting with regen to control it might be a big improvement. When stuck on rocks and roots it is very hard to get a burst of torque to get started without unleashing insane wheel spin that makes getting traction impossible. The market for off road bikes is not what Zero is targeting so I don't expect to see anything like this. Overall the smooth toque is fantastic off road but it can be too much too soon.
Logged
2016 Zero FX, 2014 KTM 1190

MorbidBBQ

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 62
    • View Profile
Re: What do we want for 2019?
« Reply #22 on: January 13, 2018, 01:17:35 AM »

After years of riding, modding, upgrading, and fixing mine; someone else here hit the jackpot.

A Shop Manual / Service Manual!

It was much easier for me to work on my 250 Ninja, or Fz6 back in the day because I could find wire diagrams, step by step R&R instructions, and parts parts parts!
Logged
2013 Zero S
2007 Yamaha FZ6
2005 Ninja 250
1983 Honda CSR

NEW2elec

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 600
    • View Profile
Re: What do we want for 2019?
« Reply #23 on: January 13, 2018, 02:09:13 AM »

Logged

MostlyBonkers

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1075
    • View Profile
Re: What do we want for 2019?
« Reply #24 on: January 13, 2018, 11:15:00 AM »

Having nearly a million miles under my belt I have never ever seen the need for traction control on a street motorcycle.  ABS yes... but traction control?  You have all the traction control you need in your right wrist if you know how to use it.  Learn how to "read the road."  If anything looks shiny or wet up ahead then back off the throttle.  It is THAT simple.  If Zero is going to add any technology to their bikes, I'd rather it be something USEFUL.

Some of those things include:

Vectrix-like regen (proportional to roll-off).
Aerodynamics (to reduce wind resistance)
Faster charge times
Brighter colors (like the good old days)
A shop manual!!!!
Better dealer network

I also have to disagree with you about traction control.  What about unexpected patches of black ice? Diesel on the road?  A rider doesn't have to be gunning it for the rear wheel to break loose. When it does though, the wheel spins up so quickly that things can go bad in the blink of an eye. I'd rather keep a general view of the road surface, rather than trying to look for every almost invisible problem.  I like to look out for hazards like vehicles and pedestrians.

It's also much more dangerous to explore the limits of traction without traction control. It doesn't hurt to let TC kick in occasionally to give yourself a better feel for where that limit is. It means you can adjust your riding to get the most fun out of the bike and still have confidence that you have some grip to spare.  I'd say TC is a useful learning tool as well as something that will save lives.  Not all riders have the skills and experience that you do.  Should they be punished for that? I feel you have the same attitude as those who say ABS is a waste of time. No it isn't.
Logged

ultrarnr

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 387
    • View Profile
Re: What do we want for 2019?
« Reply #25 on: January 13, 2018, 04:33:45 PM »

I would like to see a new platform from Zero. With the frame design on the S/SR any increase in battery size is going to be limited to new technology. And these are physically small motorcycles compared to most other bikes out there. I have a 650 V-Strom and KTM 1290 SA and the size difference is pretty obvious. Would love to see Zero make their version of the Brutus V9 cruiser that you can get with a 33.7 kWh battery and DCFC. This is one of the electric motorcycles I would love to ride but BCC is in Nevada and I am on the east coast.
Logged

NEW2elec

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 600
    • View Profile
Re: What do we want for 2019?
« Reply #26 on: January 13, 2018, 08:14:13 PM »

The team up of Zero and the old bike company Confederate will be where your cruiser will come from.  I doubt they would have agreed to a team up if they were going to build a cruiser themselves.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2018, 10:37:28 PM by NEW2elec »
Logged

ChainGun

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 34
    • View Profile
Re: What do we want for 2019?
« Reply #27 on: January 14, 2018, 04:29:22 AM »

1. Traction Control.
2. Inspired design.
Logged

BrianTRice

  • Unofficial Zero Manual Editor
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2362
  • Nerdy Adventurer
    • View Profile
    • Personal site
Re: What do we want for 2019?
« Reply #28 on: January 14, 2018, 05:50:02 AM »

I'll chime in with my votes:

  • Updated frame, robust for carrying more cargo and mounting fairings (even if Zero leaves this to the aftermarket). That tail assembly should support a lot more mass as shipped, and the top plate hardware should be integrated into the tail assembly to reduce metal fatigue.
  • Traction control; mainly for wet conditions, but in general any safe measure should be shipped, even a stopgap. I've had the wheel spin up when I didn't want it to.
  • A 6-brick-equivalent option supported by the OEM in some form for travel enthusiasts.
  • For others: take the longbrick S/DS bikes and relocate the underseat cabling and circuit boards into the new storage area. Customize this model to accommodate shorter riders, and as a bonus it provides additional protection for the core equipment.
  • A more robust use of CANBus signaling. I think the bike could be much more fault-tolerant and debuggable without a ton of investment.
Logged
Zero: 2016 DSR, 2013 DS
Also: 2012 Suzuki DL-650 V-Strom Adv

Richard230

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4986
    • View Profile
Re: What do we want for 2019?
« Reply #29 on: January 14, 2018, 07:31:41 AM »

I think we all forgot about a different and more robust on-board charger.  I could also live with one that had a little more oomph, as I have 20 amp circuit breakers in my home.  ;)
Logged
Richard's motorcycle collection:  2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2005 Triumph T-100 Bonneville, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.
Pages: 1 [2] 3