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Author Topic: Odd charging behavior since the last software update  (Read 777 times)

JaimeC

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Odd charging behavior since the last software update
« on: December 20, 2017, 12:36:15 AM »

I just got off the phone with my local dealer.  Here's the situation:  Ever since the last software update, the bike has been acting as though it has the 9.6 kWh battery pack and not the 13 kWh pack.  From the numbers on the dash and on the Android app, my starting range is SIGNIFICANTLY lower in the morning than it used to be.

Before the flash, it would typically show anywhere between 80 - 100 miles remaining.  Now, it typically indicates 55 - 70 miles remaining.  This isn't the FIRST winter I've had the bike, and although I expect the starting range to be somewhat lower on colder mornings, it's never been THIS low before.

Second is the rate of discharge I'm seeing.  Before the flash, I would get to the office with roughly 80% of the battery remaining.  Now I'm seeing less than 70%.  The one way distance (mostly highway at 70 mph) is 17 miles.

The dealer offered to come over to the house and fetch the bike tomorrow (which is more than I expected; I thought I'd have to make an appointment to drop it off myself).  I'll let you know what they find but I'm wondering if anyone else has seen anything like this, or have any guesses as to what is going on?  The bike is still under warranty (it'll expire in April) and the battery warranty still has more than three years left so I'm not worried about any of that.
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2016 Zero S: Short trips in traffic
2013 BMW C650GT: Long trips in traffic
1999 BMW K1200LT: For everything else

Richard230

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Re: Odd charging behavior since the last software update
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2017, 04:44:55 AM »

Could it be that the new flash was for a lower-spec Zero?  Perhaps the technician selected the wrong model Zero from their website?   ???
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Richard's motorcycle collection:  2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2005 Triumph T-100 Bonneville, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

JaimeC

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Re: Odd charging behavior since the last software update
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2017, 08:25:07 AM »

That was my thought.  Guess we'll find out soon enough.  In the meantime, I posted this experience on the Zero Owner's Facebook group and it looks like I'm NOT alone.  Quite a few people are sharing similar experiences with that last update.  Damn... and I intentionally did NOT have it done as soon as it came out but decided to wait a few months first. :(
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2016 Zero S: Short trips in traffic
2013 BMW C650GT: Long trips in traffic
1999 BMW K1200LT: For everything else

KrazyEd

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Re: Odd charging behavior since the last software update
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2017, 08:47:10 AM »

I had a similar issue on my 2016 SR
I started getting less than full results
and after a few charges, it would not
operate at all. It turned out to be a
bad BMS I think.
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JaimeC

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Re: Odd charging behavior since the last software update
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2017, 06:29:36 PM »

A Facebook user named Burton Rosenburger responded with this information.  I'm hoping he's right and it's THAT simple:

"Here is some dealer fu for you .. when they flash a bike they have to select how many bricks you have and run that update (think of it like a fancy bat file but at some point in there it sets the bricks to 1,2,3,4 etc) ...

You just need to have them reflash it with the right amount of bricks for your bike size ... Had it happen to my bike as well."
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2016 Zero S: Short trips in traffic
2013 BMW C650GT: Long trips in traffic
1999 BMW K1200LT: For everything else

JaimeC

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Re: Odd charging behavior since the last software update
« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2017, 01:53:05 AM »

The dealer was good on their word.  They were here at precisely 12:00 and picked up the bike.  Just have to wait now and see what they find.
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2016 Zero S: Short trips in traffic
2013 BMW C650GT: Long trips in traffic
1999 BMW K1200LT: For everything else

Richard230

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Re: Odd charging behavior since the last software update
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2017, 01:23:09 AM »

I read an interesting article in my newspaper today, written by Seung Lee and published by the bayareanewsgroup.com.  The article states that yesterday, Apple acknowledged that it limits older iPhone performance with its new iOS software updates. Apple curbs the speed of aging iPhones to limit their computing power in order to prolong the life of the phones' batteries, which apparently get tired after some time.  The article quotes The Verge as saying "Lithium-ion batteries become less capable of supplying peak current demands when in cold conditions, have a low battery charge or as they age over time, which can result in the device unexpectedly shutting down to protect its electronic components."

Apple said that the change was an unannounced feature to protect the iPhone. "Last year we released a feature for the iPhone 6, 6s and SE to smooth out the instantaneous peaks only when needed to prevent the device from unexpectedly shutting down during these conditions.  They have now extended that feature to iPhone 7 with iOS 11.2 and plan to add support for other products in the future."

However, iPhone users and journalists have floated the idea that Apple is creating "planned obsolescence" so as to "squeeze" users into upgrading to the newest model. Apple was accused of planned obsolescence over the iPhone 4s in a New York lawsuit in 2015.

You just never know what a new software update is going to do.  ::) That is why I prefer not to update software if everything is working fine and there are no problems that would appear to need an update to resolve.  ;)
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Richard's motorcycle collection:  2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2005 Triumph T-100 Bonneville, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

togo

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Re: Odd charging behavior since the last software update
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2017, 05:52:54 AM »

You make a lot of sense, Richard230.

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It's like flying, but with more traction.  And none of that Z-axis complexity.

Lost my faith in Zero with my 2011 S, but regained it with my 2014 SR.  Diginow SCv2 changed my SR from a fun ride to primary transport.

2014 Zero SR, accessorized. 2008 Vectrix VX-1 NiMH. 2001 Honda Helix.

Richard230

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Re: Odd charging behavior since the last software update
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2017, 07:17:53 AM »

I might also add that it would seem to me to be appropriate for any company updating software to provide the consumer with a description of what the update will change on the currently installed computer program.  That certainly is what Firefox does when it updates its software - every week or two.   ::)
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Richard's motorcycle collection:  2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2005 Triumph T-100 Bonneville, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

MrDude_1

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Re: Odd charging behavior since the last software update
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2017, 06:44:32 PM »

I might also add that it would seem to me to be appropriate for any company updating software to provide the consumer with a description of what the update will change on the currently installed computer program.  That certainly is what Firefox does when it updates its software - every week or two.   ::)

They dont always tell either.
https://www.theverge.com/2017/12/16/16784628/mozilla-mr-robot-arg-plugin-firefox-looking-glass
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JaimeC

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Re: Odd charging behavior since the last software update
« Reply #10 on: December 22, 2017, 07:01:55 PM »

I might also add that it would seem to me to be appropriate for any company updating software to provide the consumer with a description of what the update will change on the currently installed computer program.  That certainly is what Firefox does when it updates its software - every week or two.   ::)

They did.  Nearly everyone here either got a letter in the mail, or an E-Mail detailing the update.
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2016 Zero S: Short trips in traffic
2013 BMW C650GT: Long trips in traffic
1999 BMW K1200LT: For everything else

Richard230

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Re: Odd charging behavior since the last software update
« Reply #11 on: December 22, 2017, 08:39:24 PM »

I might also add that it would seem to me to be appropriate for any company updating software to provide the consumer with a description of what the update will change on the currently installed computer program.  That certainly is what Firefox does when it updates its software - every week or two.   ::)

They did.  Nearly everyone here either got a letter in the mail, or an E-Mail detailing the update.

That is news to me.  I guess I wasn't on their update notification list.  ???

And that news item regarding Firefox, posted by the Dude, was also something that I hadn't heard of before.  I guess I am just out of the loop - as usual.   ::)
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Richard's motorcycle collection:  2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2005 Triumph T-100 Bonneville, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

JaimeC

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Re: Odd charging behavior since the last software update
« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2017, 10:34:32 PM »

The information is in this link, and is pinned to the top of this forum:
http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=6878.0

Just got off the phone with the dealership.  They ran diagnostics and couldn't detect any errors in the system.  They are going to reach out to Zero to see what they have to say now.
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2016 Zero S: Short trips in traffic
2013 BMW C650GT: Long trips in traffic
1999 BMW K1200LT: For everything else

Richard230

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Re: Odd charging behavior since the last software update
« Reply #13 on: December 23, 2017, 04:52:05 AM »

The information is in this link, and is pinned to the top of this forum:
http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=6878.0

Just got off the phone with the dealership.  They ran diagnostics and couldn't detect any errors in the system.  They are going to reach out to Zero to see what they have to say now.

Now I recall that general information from Zero.  But I was thinking of more specific details for every new firmware update so that I could decide how important it might be for me to visit my dealer and have that update installed. 

I got the same response from my dealer when I asked about my instrument display and green charging light remaining on after the charger's power plug was disconnected. They had never heard of such a thing happening before and there were no errors in the bike's log.  Installing the latest firmware update had no impact on my charging issue. If they contacted Zero about the problem, I didn't hear about it.

Good luck with your issue.  I hope they can correct the problem.  It sounds like your dealer is doing the best that they can.
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Richard's motorcycle collection:  2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2005 Triumph T-100 Bonneville, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

jnef

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Re: Odd charging behavior since the last software update
« Reply #14 on: December 23, 2017, 10:46:21 AM »

JamieC —. Any idea what firmware revision you were on?

I found my 2016SR+PT now with v51 to be absolutely horrible. SOC gauge and charging are all off. It was perfect with the previous version 49.  Bike goes to 0% at only 55 miles now, used to be 120+. Sometimes it goes turtle mode while indicating 50%. Battery shows kwhr numbers that make no sense. Should hold 14kwhr, but only takes 9-10 from the wall but indicates it took 12, and I’m pretty sure the charger isn’t over unity. :)  when I talked to the dealer and they talked to Zero, the reason they told me was because I use the Zero supplied QuiQ charger in addition to the onboard and I shouldn’t do that!  Needless to say that I’m pretty upset about this version and the deferral from Zero that this is my fault for using the QuiQ that they sold me.

I’m trying to get in to the dealer again for the third time as I hear there is now a v52 for the 2016.  Otherwise this thing has become nearly useless as I don’t know if it can make the trip to work or not...


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