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Author Topic: Fisker files for solid state battery patents!  (Read 189 times)

NEW2elec

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Fisker files for solid state battery patents!
« on: November 14, 2017, 09:35:49 PM »

https://www.yahoo.com/tech/fisker-filed-patents-solid-state-130000111.html

As the profit Luke Workman predicted better batteries are coming from Sakti5 (ok so it was Sakti3)
Filing for patents at least takes it out of the vapor wear phase and they should show some of them off in January so merry late Christmas to us.
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MrDude_1

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Re: Fisker files for solid state battery patents!
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2017, 01:23:13 AM »

https://www.yahoo.com/tech/fisker-filed-patents-solid-state-130000111.html

As the profit Luke Workman predicted better batteries are coming from Sakti5 (ok so it was Sakti3)
Filing for patents at least takes it out of the vapor wear phase and they should show some of them off in January so merry late Christmas to us.

I hate being pessimistic, but every time I hear about a patent filed on critical tech, I worry that further development will be crippled by the fact that a critical piece is "owned" by someone else.
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Alan Stewart

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Re: Fisker files for solid state battery patents!
« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2017, 02:28:47 AM »

Filed is not granted. Even if granted - which will take years - it doesn’t mean it will actually work or meet market expectations.
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Alan
2014 Nissan Leaf, Tesla Model 3 reservation

Doug S

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Re: Fisker files for solid state battery patents!
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2017, 04:13:15 AM »

I, for one, hope Fisker (and everybody else) succeeds. That would be huge for the part of the transportation industry we're all rooting for.

Unfortunately, I can't really express much optimism. Everybody and his brother's claiming to have the next big battery innovation.

I'm also curious if they have a plan to provide a 1-minute charge to a 250kWh battery (since theyr'e saying 2.5x the energy density, I multiplied Tesla's largest battery pack by 2.5). I'm calculating that that would require 15 megawatts, which might work if you happen to own your own power station, but it would be difficult otherwise. @350VDC battery voltage, that would require 43,000 amps. To deliver it at 480VAC (industrial power here in the US), you'd require 39,000 amps if your charger was 80% efficient. I have no idea what kind of wire gauge you'd need for that but I do know that AWG 0000 wire is rated for 380 amps in free air (best cooling).
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There's no better alarm clock than sunlight on asphalt.

MrDude_1

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Re: Fisker files for solid state battery patents!
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2017, 09:22:23 PM »

I, for one, hope Fisker (and everybody else) succeeds. That would be huge for the part of the transportation industry we're all rooting for.

Unfortunately, I can't really express much optimism. Everybody and his brother's claiming to have the next big battery innovation.

I'm also curious if they have a plan to provide a 1-minute charge to a 250kWh battery (since theyr'e saying 2.5x the energy density, I multiplied Tesla's largest battery pack by 2.5). I'm calculating that that would require 15 megawatts, which might work if you happen to own your own power station, but it would be difficult otherwise. @350VDC battery voltage, that would require 43,000 amps. To deliver it at 480VAC (industrial power here in the US), you'd require 39,000 amps if your charger was 80% efficient. I have no idea what kind of wire gauge you'd need for that but I do know that AWG 0000 wire is rated for 380 amps in free air (best cooling).

Yeah.. at 1C (or rephrased, about 1 hour to charge) you are at the limit for the largest common power sources in the USA... Thats a rough rule, but fairly accurate.
For home given that most NEW houses have 200a service..  so thats 220v * 200a.. 44kw... really its 35.2kw because  there should be an 80% max of breaker rating...  and your home is still running, so anything below that is the limit of what can be pulled from home.
The only way fast HOME charging works is with some kind of battery in the charging unit that charges over time, and then discharges quickly into the vehicle.

For commercial locations, they often have three phase power and while they can scale up in the megawatts, thats big money and not common.  Commonly they have more overall power available but the voltage is 208 so its a bit lower... not a problem for a DC fast charge as it can be made to work of the even higher voltage (440VAC I think) but still unless you're storing it locally its going to be one hell of a sudden power dump from the grid.
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NEW2elec

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Re: Fisker files for solid state battery patents!
« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2017, 10:16:16 PM »

There is always hope :)
Now since this comes from the same people who brought us the Tesla killing Fisker Karma (laughing as I type) I reserve the right to admit they could be full of it. But if they bring a working battery to the public in January then we can see some, closer to real world, numbers.  I'm interested to see what voltage they may want to run.  Porsche was talking about an 800v super car so your charging amps at least could be lower.
One minute charging is just an attention grabber but with no liquid to boil off I have no idea what their C rate could be. 
The one other figure I want to hear is cycle life and capacity loss over time.  Without dendrites forming I would think that would help both factors but it could cause a new problem I'm not aware of.
As always we'll wait and see.
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ESokoloff

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Re: Fisker files for solid state battery patents!
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2017, 02:02:19 AM »

.............

I'm also curious if they have a plan to provide a 1-minute charge to a 250kWh battery (since theyr'e saying 2.5x the energy density, I multiplied Tesla's largest battery pack by 2.5). I'm calculating that that would require 15 megawatts, which might work if you happen to own your own power station, but it would be difficult otherwise. @350VDC battery voltage, that would require 43,000 amps. To deliver it at 480VAC (industrial power here in the US), you'd require 39,000 amps if your charger was 80% efficient. I have no idea what kind of wire gauge you'd need for that but I do know that AWG 0000 wire is rated for 380 amps in free air (best cooling).

Capacitor banks?
Also conductor current capacity is based on continuse use so perhaps if current is pulsed the conductor size can be reduced?
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Eric
2016 Zero DSR

Doug S

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Re: Fisker files for solid state battery patents!
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2017, 08:56:03 PM »

Capacitor banks?
Also conductor current capacity is based on continuse use so perhaps if current is pulsed the conductor size can be reduced?

A capacitor bank is a nice way to store energy locally, but it won't do anything about the current required from the charging station to the vehicle.

And pulsing makes things worse. Resistive heating is proportional to the square of the current (P = I^2*R), so doubling the current for half the time results in four times the heating for half the time, or the same energy delivered but causing twice as much heating.
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