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Author Topic: Charging while riding?  (Read 543 times)

Aikirob

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Charging while riding?
« on: November 09, 2017, 04:47:01 AM »

Just wanted to know if the bike is capable of charging using the onboard and quick charging ports while your riding it?
was thinking about making a lithium UPS system to increase my range without having to buy extra batteries from zero.
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JaimeC

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Re: Charging while riding?
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2017, 05:55:55 AM »

Sounds like you're talking about just adding another battery.  Just get the power tank.  Less hassles and it is designed for the application.

If you actually want to CHARGE the bike while you're riding it, you're talking about dragging a big generator behind you that is running on some kind of fuel to generate electricity and you've just eliminated the reason for riding an electric motorcycle in the first place.
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2016 Zero S: Short trips in traffic
2013 BMW C650GT: Long trips in traffic
1999 BMW K1200LT: For everything else

BrianTRice

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Re: Charging while riding?
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2017, 06:05:39 AM »

If you can charge at 6kW or more, you'll equal the power consumption of the motor at highway speeds.

Since no one can do that yet, there's no reasonable outcome right now. JaimeC is right that a Power Tank is the most effective upgrade.

"A lithium UPS system" is a battery, to be clear, and probably less power-dense than the Power Tank.
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Zero: 2016 DSR, 2013 DS
Also: 2012 Suzuki DL-650 V-Strom Adv

Aikirob

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Re: Charging while riding?
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2017, 08:03:33 AM »

actually the power tank has shit all in terms of battery capacity and its priced at $4000 in Australia, its an overpriced gimmick that offers very little in terms of range improvements, I can buy tesla 18650 batteries for pretty cheap so if I was after another battery pack I could buy a second hand worn out zero battery pack and exchange the old batteries with 18650's, there are youtube tutorials on how to do this.

what I was asking was can the bike be charged while riding, from your responses I'm thinking yes?

what I  was actually thinking is modifying an Uninterrupted power supply, connecting a few solar cells to a windshield and on my side saddles to trickle charge the ups lithium batteries, and use the ups (when its full) to charge the bike (because solar panels don't give enough WATTS to charge the bike directly), if it can be used to put some power into the battery while riding that would also increase the range slightly, I'm guessing the increase would be about 10% on a full trip and also if I stop the ups could remotely charge the bike without needing to be plugged into a power point, great for a bit of extra range.

The Ups can be plugged into a power point to slow charge just like the bike can, or use solar power, the downfall to that is that it would take the UPS like 2 days of direct sunlight to charge completely and could not charge the bike to full in one go anyway, so it would take probably a few days to solar charge the bike in this way.

The point being that you can get all of your power from the sun and get your bike to 100% charge from a setup that's no bigger then a side saddle. Meaning its completely free energy from the sun and no power points required meaning you can camp out and never be stuck as long as you have sunlight. you could also get some fold out solar cells to lay on the ground to help power the UPS if you need it to charge faster, which could halve the time you'd be waiting.

I know its not practical, but it would work.

I have a fast charger for convenience, this idea is just a working theory that I might use to travel around australia for free with...
« Last Edit: November 09, 2017, 08:05:23 AM by Aikirob »
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JaimeC

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Re: Charging while riding?
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2017, 09:39:56 AM »

With the current state of solar panels you'd need far far more surface area than your bike provides to generate enough electricity to keep it charged.  I have panels on my house.  My roof is perfectly positioned with a southern exposure and the peak output I'll see on a cloudless sunny day is roughly 5 kW.  Those panels are far too big and heavy to be lugging around on a bike.
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2016 Zero S: Short trips in traffic
2013 BMW C650GT: Long trips in traffic
1999 BMW K1200LT: For everything else

winfried

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Re: Charging while riding?
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2017, 02:40:44 AM »

Also thought about adding my spare 2 battery packs with 48V 40Ah in series for 96-116v as Site Packs for a longer ride, plugged in the AUX.
Limiting the current feed to 10A to protect them.

Same question, ist it possible and does not brick the Zero ?

... or should I add it parallel to Zero battery packs ?


Gesendet von meinem S60 mit Tapatalk

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Aikirob

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Re: Charging while riding?
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2017, 02:03:20 PM »

With the current state of solar panels you'd need far far more surface area than your bike provides to generate enough electricity to keep it charged.  I have panels on my house.  My roof is perfectly positioned with a southern exposure and the peak output I'll see on a cloudless sunny day is roughly 5 kW.  Those panels are far too big and heavy to be lugging around on a bike.
your not understanding the concept, try re-reading my last post, the UPS stores the power from the solar panel, which can then be used to power the bike, not from the solar panels directly.
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JaimeC

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Re: Charging while riding?
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2017, 06:22:54 PM »

No, I understand it perfectly.  The UPS is not "magic," it cannot multiply the electricity generated by the miniscule solar panel that would be practical to carry on the bike into anything that would charge the battery enough to add more than five or six FEET of travel.  You'll generate far more electricity from the bike's regen capabilities on a long downhill run.
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2016 Zero S: Short trips in traffic
2013 BMW C650GT: Long trips in traffic
1999 BMW K1200LT: For everything else

Doug S

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Re: Charging while riding?
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2017, 09:10:40 PM »

Also...I don't know of many UPSes yet which use Li-ion batteries. Most are still using lead-acid batteries, which are much less energy dense than the battery on your bike. You'd be better off just directly charging the battery on your bike from the solar array.

I toy with the idea of making a small trailer to carry around a generator, using the SCv2 to turn the bike into a hybrid for longer trips. I think it would work fine, especially if you tap into the battery at the motor controller instead of through the external charging connector, but....no. Too much work, too much kludge, not enough payoff.
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There's no better alarm clock than sunlight on asphalt.

JaimeC

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Re: Charging while riding?
« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2017, 09:36:50 PM »

Exactly.  And dragging that trailer behind you would lessen your range, speed and acceleration to begin with.  "TANSTAAFL*"





*Note:  There Ain't No Such Thing As a Free Lunch"
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2016 Zero S: Short trips in traffic
2013 BMW C650GT: Long trips in traffic
1999 BMW K1200LT: For everything else

togo

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Re: Charging while riding?
« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2017, 12:42:57 AM »

Just wanted to know if the bike is capable of charging using the onboard and quick charging ports while your riding it?
was thinking about making a lithium UPS system to increase my range without having to buy extra batteries from zero.

I think plugging in disables operation.  It does on most EVs.

A DC-DC boost circuit would be a more likely route to success in your endeavor.  These are SMPS that consume more amps at lower voltage to produce fewer amps at higher voltage maintaining the same watts in and out (minus a little power to run the circuit, lost as heat).

I'm also interested in an external battery or battery trailer, but I think you need to be more technical about the electronics, not just buy an off-the-shelf UPS and plug it in. 

I've got a 900 watt DC-DC boost circuit from ebay that I plan to test and then build a battery pack for.  I have a couple of kwh of 18650 cells...

But yes, nothing as "plug and play" as your idea.


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It's like flying, but with more traction.  And none of that Z-axis complexity.

Lost my faith in Zero with my 2011 S, but regained it with my 2014 SR.  Diginow SCv2 changed my SR from a fun ride to primary transport.

2014 Zero SR, accessorized. 2008 Vectrix VX-1 NiMH. 2001 Honda Helix.

Doug S

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Re: Charging while riding?
« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2017, 01:57:36 AM »

I think plugging in disables operation.  It does on most EVs.

That's why I said you may have to tap into the battery directly at the motor controller. I'm pretty sure the MBB has no control over that (or even awareness)....it's a direct battery connection through the main contactor.
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There's no better alarm clock than sunlight on asphalt.

Aikirob

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Re: Charging while riding?
« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2017, 05:37:40 AM »

No, I understand it perfectly.  The UPS is not "magic," it cannot multiply the electricity generated by the miniscule solar panel that would be practical to carry on the bike into anything that would charge the battery enough to add more than five or six FEET of travel.  You'll generate far more electricity from the bike's regen capabilities on a long downhill run.
again not what I'm saying at all, the ups has a lithium battery that can store power from solar cells, the energy stored in the ups battery can then be used to charge the bike over a long period of time, the solar panels arnt there to provide a direct charge, they are there to provide a trickle charge to the UPS battery, the UPS battery can then use the build up charge to power the bike battery.

At no point did I say I was magically multiplying anything... at this point I'm thinking your putting words in my mouth or simply trying to troll...
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Aikirob

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Re: Charging while riding?
« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2017, 05:39:33 AM »

Just wanted to know if the bike is capable of charging using the onboard and quick charging ports while your riding it?
was thinking about making a lithium UPS system to increase my range without having to buy extra batteries from zero.

I think plugging in disables operation.  It does on most EVs.

A DC-DC boost circuit would be a more likely route to success in your endeavor.  These are SMPS that consume more amps at lower voltage to produce fewer amps at higher voltage maintaining the same watts in and out (minus a little power to run the circuit, lost as heat).

I'm also interested in an external battery or battery trailer, but I think you need to be more technical about the electronics, not just buy an off-the-shelf UPS and plug it in. 

I've got a 900 watt DC-DC boost circuit from ebay that I plan to test and then build a battery pack for.  I have a couple of kwh of 18650 cells...

But yes, nothing as "plug and play" as your idea.
thanks for being the only person who gave me a straightforward answer to my question.
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Aikirob

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Re: Charging while riding?
« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2017, 05:41:07 AM »

Also...I don't know of many UPSes yet which use Li-ion batteries. Most are still using lead-acid batteries, which are much less energy dense than the battery on your bike. You'd be better off just directly charging the battery on your bike from the solar array.

I toy with the idea of making a small trailer to carry around a generator, using the SCv2 to turn the bike into a hybrid for longer trips. I think it would work fine, especially if you tap into the battery at the motor controller instead of through the external charging connector, but....no. Too much work, too much kludge, not enough payoff.
All of the newer model UPS systems are now using li-ion batteries, one of interest is the PLUG, you can see it on indygogo and kickstarter, can be directly plugged into with solar and household plugs.
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