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Author Topic: PRODUCT SURVEY: Battery Insulation Accessory for Zero Motorcycles  (Read 353 times)

BrianTRice

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I've been working with a concept for the last year and finally have a designer with a prototype very close to deliverable.


But! It's important to understand whether we need to adjust it and to hear what people think before they see it.


So, please take the time to fill out this survey, no matter what your interest level. Whatever you have to say will be appreciated and considered, because we can't anticipate every perspective.


https://goo.gl/forms/PZWeHRg67i4gTJLu1


Thanks!
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NEW2elec

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Re: PRODUCT SURVEY: Battery Insulation Accessory for Zero Motorcycles
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2017, 09:57:25 PM »

Don't forget about a reflective option for hot lands!  That black looks nice but is a sun magnet. 
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Erasmo

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Re: PRODUCT SURVEY: Battery Insulation Accessory for Zero Motorcycles
« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2017, 11:07:49 PM »

Submitted
Quote
Would you want to put a heating element behind it for cold storage? *
I assume this is primarily to heat the battery up to be able to charge and to be able to leave with a cozy battery from the start?
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clay.leihy

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Re: PRODUCT SURVEY: Battery Insulation Accessory for Zero Motorcycles
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2017, 12:27:06 AM »

Submitted
Quote
Would you want to put a heating element behind it for cold storage? *
I assume this is primarily to heat the battery up to be able to charge and to be able to leave with a cozy battery from the start?
I think it's referring to storage in an unheated place. I would like heating while riding.

Sent from my Z982 using Tapatalk

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JaimeC

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Re: PRODUCT SURVEY: Battery Insulation Accessory for Zero Motorcycles
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2017, 12:40:17 AM »

Submitted
Quote
Would you want to put a heating element behind it for cold storage? *
I assume this is primarily to heat the battery up to be able to charge and to be able to leave with a cozy battery from the start?
I think it's referring to storage in an unheated place. I would like heating while riding.

Sent from my Z982 using Tapatalk

"Insulation" implies retaining the existing heat, not pumping additional heat  into the battery.  The battery produces heat when being charged, and when in use.  The insulation would retain THAT heat in order to keep the battery as close as possible to optimal operating temperature.  Not an issue for those of you living in hot climates but a real issue for those of us who actually experience winter.

I get around the issue by using my ICE bike (pun intended) when the temperatures drop below freezing.  I'm not sure of Zero's recommendation for prolonged winter storage but last year I just left the bike plugged in all the time when it wasn't being ridden.
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clay.leihy

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Re: PRODUCT SURVEY: Battery Insulation Accessory for Zero Motorcycles
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2017, 03:12:52 AM »

Submitted
Quote
Would you want to put a heating element behind it for cold storage? *
I assume this is primarily to heat the battery up to be able to charge and to be able to leave with a cozy battery from the start?
I think it's referring to storage in an unheated place. I would like heating while riding.

Sent from my Z982 using Tapatalk

"Insulation" implies retaining the existing heat, not pumping additional heat  into the battery.  The battery produces heat when being charged, and when in use.  The insulation would retain THAT heat in order to keep the battery as close as possible to optimal operating temperature.  Not an issue for those of you living in hot climates but a real issue for those of us who actually experience winter.

I get around the issue by using my ICE bike (pun intended) when the temperatures drop below freezing.  I'm not sure of Zero's recommendation for prolonged winter storage but last year I just left the bike plugged in all the time when it wasn't being ridden.
In winter, my battery doesn't produce enough heat, even with some insulation. The wind at highway speeds overcomes whatever heat is generated, and I get slower and slower.

Sent from my Z982 using Tapatalk

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winfried

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Re: PRODUCT SURVEY: Battery Insulation Accessory for Zero Motorcycles
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2017, 01:48:37 AM »

Submitted
Quote
Would you want to put a heating element behind it for cold storage? *
I assume this is primarily to heat the battery up to be able to charge and to be able to leave with a cozy battery from the start?
I think it's referring to storage in an unheated place. I would like heating while riding.

Sent from my Z982 using Tapatalk

"Insulation" implies retaining the existing heat, not pumping additional heat  into the battery.  The battery produces heat when being charged, and when in use.  The insulation would retain THAT heat in order to keep the battery as close as possible to optimal operating temperature.  Not an issue for those of you living in hot climates but a real issue for those of us who actually experience winter.

I get around the issue by using my ICE bike (pun intended) when the temperatures drop below freezing.  I'm not sure of Zero's recommendation for prolonged winter storage but last year I just left the bike plugged in all the time when it wasn't being ridden.
In winter, my battery doesn't produce enough heat, even with some insulation. The wind at highway speeds overcomes whatever heat is generated, and I get slower and slower.

Sent from my Z982 using Tapatalk
On wet weather i am forced to drive slower means more range but lower temperature means lower range.
In my expierience it stays mostly the same

Gesendet von meinem S60 mit Tapatalk

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togo

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Re: PRODUCT SURVEY: Battery Insulation Accessory for Zero Motorcycles
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2017, 02:40:20 AM »


...
I think it's referring to storage in an unheated place. I would like heating while riding.


Brian's cozy is to insulate, not heat.  It's to retain temperature while charging or riding, and to be fully or partly removable when the day gets warmer.  Battery generates some heat under rapid charge (especially at low and high end) and rapid riding (like 70+ mph) and cool most rapidly under slower riding (55mph or less) so you'd want to adapt to whether you insulate or ventilate depending on the weather and the battery temp.  You can check the battery temp from the Zero Motorcycles app or monitorit the Zero Voltage (android only) app.  Battery temp above 50C/122F becomes a problem- contactor opens and you can't charge or ride until it cools, and it doesn't cool effectively unless you ride (at low to moderate speed).

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It's like flying, but with more traction.  And none of that Z-axis complexity.

Lost my faith in Zero with my 2011 S, but regained it with my 2014 SR.  Diginow SCv2 changed my SR from a fun ride to primary transport.

2014 Zero SR, accessorized. 2008 Vectrix VX-1 NiMH. 2001 Honda Helix.

BrianTRice

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Re: PRODUCT SURVEY: Battery Insulation Accessory for Zero Motorcycles
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2017, 08:01:35 AM »

The first version of this product has to be very simple, and we will err on the side of having it doing less in exchange for being easier to operate and less likely to cause problems for the owner.

For that reason, it will focus on insulation first and let the owner decide whether they want to use heaters for unheated storage. There may be an option or two but we have to focus on build quality, durability, and basic expectations for the first production run.

Regarding hot weather, I will say that this is not appropriate for hot weather, and that repeated fast charging can mean taking it off early. There may be a "reflector shade" version but we haven't worked out what would be effective.

All the feedback here is useful, although I'm not going to talk about specifics until we've made some decisions which the survey helps inform.

I will say that with my prototypes, I lose much less range in the cold and especially the wet; there is still a range loss because of aerodynamics in the cold, but the relative battery warmth retained means that the majority of range loss goes away. Zero battery monoliths gain and lose temperature slowly, but the impact on range seem to do with effects at the edge of the pack because of external cooling.
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MrDude_1

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Re: PRODUCT SURVEY: Battery Insulation Accessory for Zero Motorcycles
« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2017, 10:13:47 AM »

If its just a thermal blanket, then some of those silicone heater pads (the kind with thermostat) plugged in with the charger or separately if powerful, slipped between the battery and the cover would work.
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clay.leihy

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Re: PRODUCT SURVEY: Battery Insulation Accessory for Zero Motorcycles
« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2017, 11:17:55 AM »

I suppose I should have asked sooner but, is your product only for S/DS models? At least when you do produce it, it should give me some ideas in my diy endeavors for the FX.

Sent from my Z982 using Tapatalk

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BrianTRice

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Re: PRODUCT SURVEY: Battery Insulation Accessory for Zero Motorcycles
« Reply #11 on: November 08, 2017, 01:57:34 PM »

I suppose I should have asked sooner but, is your product only for S/DS models? At least when you do produce it, it should give me some ideas in my diy endeavors for the FX.

Sent from my Z982 using Tapatalk

We have no FX or FXS models to fit to, and they’re harder to actually protect even though they’re easier to wrap. But it’ll be doable if some near SF wants to volunteer a trial.
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benswing

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Re: PRODUCT SURVEY: Battery Insulation Accessory for Zero Motorcycles
« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2017, 12:04:53 AM »

What about a battery case that allows you to dump ice into it to cool the battery on hot days?  That’s what I need more!


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DonTom

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Re: PRODUCT SURVEY: Battery Insulation Accessory for Zero Motorcycles
« Reply #13 on: November 09, 2017, 01:36:26 AM »

What about a battery case that allows you to dump ice into it to cool the battery on hot days?  That’s what I need more!
Me too!  So far, every problem I have had with my two Zero bikes was from being too hot while it was well above 100°F outside in July/August. No problems this time of year.

-Don-  Auburn, CA

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BrianTRice

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Re: PRODUCT SURVEY: Battery Insulation Accessory for Zero Motorcycles
« Reply #14 on: November 09, 2017, 06:00:27 AM »

I've disabled the Google signin requirement. Feel free to use the email entry at the end for follow-up, but I didn't realize how restrictive some of the options I configured were.
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