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Author Topic: Superchargers in panniers, but with a twist?  (Read 649 times)

Erasmo

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Superchargers in panniers, but with a twist?
« on: November 01, 2017, 02:07:03 AM »

So I'm figuring out how to fit these damn Superchargers so I can finally start touring long distances on my bike.

Water cooling is a bit op in my new situation and I got a set of fans coming in soon, but after a few rides with all the components in my top case the weight balance did feel a bit iffy and weird in corners.

So, panniers might work better? Earlier this year I spoke to the guy behind Stahlkoffer, a company that makes bespoke aluminium cases and racks:



Gave them a call and they can make and mount double bottomed panniers for my DS. Sweet, just make some holes for the fans and cables and you're good to go.


But then I remembered the thread about mounting SC's in the skid pan:


In which Terry mentioned that the pan works as an excellent heatsink and before the chargers reached thermal cutbacks the bike was pretty much filled up.

I think you know where this is going:


Of course the chargers should either face down or the false bottom should be sufficiently thick to absorb enough heat before radiating to the rest of the case and the cables need waterproof connection to the outside world etc.

So, using metal panniers as both mounting and heatsink for 6.6kW of raw charging power on each side, crazy or feasible?

Please comment, since I got this lightbulb moment I can't get it out of my head!
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togo

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Re: Superchargers in panniers, but with a twist?
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2017, 02:13:40 AM »

Nice. How thick is that aluminum? Will it provide sufficient heat transfer?
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It's like flying, but with more traction.  And none of that Z-axis complexity.

Lost my faith in Zero with my 2011 S, but regained it with my 2014 SR.  Diginow SCv2 changed my SR from a fun ride to primary transport.

2014 Zero SR, accessorized. 2008 Vectrix VX-1 NiMH. 2001 Honda Helix.

Erasmo

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Re: Superchargers in panniers, but with a twist?
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2017, 02:47:52 AM »

Nice. How thick is that aluminum? Will it provide sufficient heat transfer?
Standard it is 2mm but other thicknesses can be made. If i go by Doctor Basses measurements and assume 95% efficiency the thermal load is about 300W per side. So if you're charging 45 minutes at full power you have to dissipate about 200-230wh in both the supercharging units and the panniers. I'd have to dust off my physic books to make an exact calculation but if you take a look at the mass of both pannier and SC my gut feeling says it can take the heat dump, perhaps aided with some copper heatpipes between SC and bottom.
Getting the heat out again shouldn't be a problem with the airflow from riding to next stop.
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BrianTRice

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Re: Superchargers in panniers, but with a twist?
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2017, 05:07:31 AM »

I didn't know this was holding you back. :(

Low in side panniers is probably fine, but the OEM racks should really only handle one SCv2 unit per side (and keep them balanced). The Happy Trails rack should be more up to the task (and I particularly like the accessory that gives a shelf on the inside of each rack, and think it'd make a great support for 1 SCv2 unit on each side).

The heat from each unit can probably be comfortably absorbed by the aluminum box if the contact is flush against the charger's hottest side.

That only leaves the cable routing. What will you do?
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Erasmo

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Re: Superchargers in panniers, but with a twist?
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2017, 01:55:54 PM »

Yes it is quite frustrating, but it looks things are finally getting in the right direction again.

I'm not using the OEM racks, too flimsy. The case makers can also make sturdy racks for every motorcycle.

For cable routing I had the following in mind, Mennekes inlet on the front of one of the cases. That goes directly to the charger on that side and branches off via the frame to the units in the other case.
One side powers the aux port and the other one goes directly to the controller.
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togo

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Re: Superchargers in panniers, but with a twist?
« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2017, 08:00:11 AM »

> The Happy Trails rack should be more up to the task...

I second that.  That rack is solid.  I've got one on my 2014 SR.

http://www.happy-trail.com/find-your-bike/zero-motorcycle/su-side-racks.html

It's so solid I would have no problem loading up 3 SCv2 bricks on one side.

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It's like flying, but with more traction.  And none of that Z-axis complexity.

Lost my faith in Zero with my 2011 S, but regained it with my 2014 SR.  Diginow SCv2 changed my SR from a fun ride to primary transport.

2014 Zero SR, accessorized. 2008 Vectrix VX-1 NiMH. 2001 Honda Helix.

dukecola

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Re: Superchargers in panniers, but with a twist?
« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2017, 08:04:51 AM »

I have 2 diginows in givi top case, 4000 mi of use. The bike is not top heavy, rides fine.  I'm also trying to get a handle why you are worried about cooling. I charge with lid open or closed with a few vent holes and internal temps never exceeded 165 degrees before charge was complete. I even have a small 12v vent fan on one vent but really don't need to use it.
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Erasmo

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Re: Superchargers in panniers, but with a twist?
« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2017, 08:21:46 PM »

> The Happy Trails rack should be more up to the task...

I second that.  That rack is solid.  I've got one on my 2014 SR.

http://www.happy-trail.com/find-your-bike/zero-motorcycle/su-side-racks.html

It's so solid I would have no problem loading up 3 SCv2 bricks on one side.
They do look good but I'll get them locally from Stahlkoffer. Shipping would be more expensive than the racks themself!

I got 4 bricks so 2 on each side is imho the best way balance wise.

I have 2 diginows in givi top case, 4000 mi of use. The bike is not top heavy, rides fine.  I'm also trying to get a handle why you are worried about cooling. I charge with lid open or closed with a few vent holes and internal temps never exceeded 165 degrees before charge was complete. I even have a small 12v vent fan on one vent but really don't need to use it.
I have 4 bricks so it is double as heavy.
If I can cool them using the panniers as heat sink with a little fan assist to spread the heat I can put the chargers down low in the cases, pack my luggage in the compartment above it and charge without opening the pannier. Apart from the cabling it would be completely out of the elements.

Edit: Gonna install two bricks on a piece of wood for in the topcase, that way I can at least temporally charge with 6,6kW which should be fast enough for coming months, I only need a 50 km top-up on a longer ride that I need to do weekly.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2017, 09:02:47 PM by Erasmo »
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Erasmo

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Re: Superchargers in panniers, but with a twist?
« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2017, 03:49:13 AM »

Ghetto rigging almost complete :)

Connecting everything wasn't that hard, just take your time and it will al come together since most connections only fit on their right counterpart.

Although I would really appreciate it if someone could conform that the wiring is correct before I do a test charge:





I've left the tubing out for clarity. The only thing that I've doubted a little bit are the 12V connections for the pump and radiator fan, since they are the same as the connection on the brain box. I assume that that one is connected to the Anderson plug that goes in the aux port to signal that it is active?
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Electric Terry

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Re: Superchargers in panniers, but with a twist?
« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2017, 04:47:38 AM »

The wiring looks good to me!  Yes the smaller connector on the control board is the bikes enable signal so once you start charging you don't have to leave the key in the ignition to continue charging.

And In the other thread where I asked how many chargers you had, I totally read this whole project and forgot it was you also who was doing it!  I like the water cooling idea! let us know how it turns out!

But yeah, 6.6 kW charging per side case is just awesome!  13.2 kW total and you can carry a powertank!!  This is the most awesome setup!!  And with a fairing, you're really gonna be able to rock and roll down the road!
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Erasmo

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Re: Superchargers in panniers, but with a twist?
« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2017, 03:18:01 PM »

Perfect. I suspected that was the case but I still wanted to double check it, I don't want to fry the brain box by accident.
Tomorrow I'll do a quick 5 minute test charge to confirm that everything is working and then hook up the water cooling. It's about 700km to the pannier shop, should be doable with 6kW and proper planning, I intend to make a weekend trip of it and have some fun on the way.

Yeah the whole project is taking way too long, had a few drawbacks that took a lot of time to finish and the fairing also took quite some time to finish. I'm seriously on the fence about water cooling, on one hand it is totally overpowered for the cool Western Europe temperatures and even mid-summer the battery will be probably the bottleneck anyway temperature wise. On the other hand you can make a super clean self contained unit that doesn't need open air venting holes, which is a pre with all the rain we get here. I've asked Brandon if he can send me the air blocks as a backup, and we'll see what works best when building up the system.

For the centre mass it would be best to lie them down separated, although in the end it might not make that much of a difference.
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Shadow

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Re: Superchargers in panniers, but with a twist?
« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2017, 09:48:41 AM »

I would worry about the motor or fan becoming stuck and blowing the internal 12Vdc fan supply fuse(s) which is non-repairable. For that, please refer to DigiNow for a recommendation about how to connect the pump and fan.

You may encounter a condition where one of the units will turn to off or low output and fan-off mode;  Then you would have a pump and no radiator fan, or a radiator fan and no pump.
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Erasmo

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Re: Superchargers in panniers, but with a twist?
« Reply #12 on: November 05, 2017, 09:50:21 PM »

The motor and fan both come from Diginow so they should play together nicely. In the worst case scenario I can always source 12V from the bike.

Meanwhile I did a quick test and:
 ;D
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MrDude_1

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Re: Superchargers in panniers, but with a twist?
« Reply #13 on: November 06, 2017, 05:13:47 AM »

The motor and fan both come from Diginow so they should play together nicely. In the worst case scenario I can always source 12V from the bike.

Meanwhile I did a quick test and:
 ;D


if you need additional 12v for fans, get a universal input power brick and have it plugged into the charger inlet.
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Erasmo

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Re: Superchargers in panniers, but with a twist?
« Reply #14 on: November 06, 2017, 05:25:05 AM »

To be honest even my power bank does supply enough power, those fans barely draw any amps.

For the interested a short clip featuring the SCv2 and a first test charge with it:



A single/duo brick installation is really that simple to install and use, due to the difference in connectors it is practically impossible to install it incorrectly.
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