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Author Topic: Rethinking charging stations  (Read 224 times)

NEW2elec

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Rethinking charging stations
« on: October 29, 2017, 01:38:03 AM »

So as it is now we have this:
Grid==>Charging station ramps up power==>Charging cable==>Battery charger==>Battery.

Why not this:
Grid==>Charging station ramps up power==>Battery charger==>Charging cable==>Battery.

There is an idea trying to take hold for the younger folks that goes like this.  Why own a car when you only use it for a short while each day?  It's doing nothing 90% of the day.  Just crowd share and pay for what you use.

Now my opinion on that broader idea is it's not for me as an older capitalist but it does make a good point.

Why should every EV owner pay for a charger to convert to DC when that unit could be built into the station?  At this time electricity is nice and cheap but these station will start to charge a pretty penny when they are the new oil tycoons. 
Point is let them pay for it and keep it working and buy me a new battery if they screw it up same as bad gas in my engine now.

I'm thinking of QR code or RFID chip to let the station know what voltage your EV runs at, what your battery type is, and capacity.  Set all that up for your EV and deliver as much as that EV is on the record for being able to take.

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MrDude_1

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Re: Rethinking charging stations
« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2017, 06:12:09 AM »

Congrats. You independently have thought up how DC fast charging works.

There are multiple versions of this, but a large, off-vehicle DC converter with DC through the cable, controlled by the vehicle, is exactly how CCS, CHAdeMO and Tesla supercharging works.
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togo

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Re: Rethinking charging stations
« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2017, 08:27:25 PM »

A zero owners group could locate rapid chargers in various places, with Anderson plugs, and people could ride without chargers on their bikes. EC tells stores about doing that around LA at one point.
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It's like flying, but with more traction.  And none of that Z-axis complexity.

Lost my faith in Zero with my 2011 S, but regained it with my 2014 SR.  Diginow SCv2 changed my SR from a fun ride to primary transport.

2014 Zero SR, accessorized. 2008 Vectrix VX-1 NiMH. 2001 Honda Helix.

Erasmo

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Re: Rethinking charging stations
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2017, 11:50:15 PM »

Congrats. You independently have thought up how DC fast charging works.

There are multiple versions of this, but a large, off-vehicle DC converter with DC through the cable, controlled by the vehicle, is exactly how CCS, CHAdeMO and Tesla supercharging works.
For charging on the road this is the way to go. But for destination charging? Not per se, small(3kW-ish) chargers are super cheap and being able to charge at home with you own power of choice and have a full vehicle in the morning is one of the things that makes driving an EV so great.
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speedkills

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Re: Rethinking charging stations
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2017, 08:26:25 AM »

I find myself wishing the same thing.  Alta told me they couldn’t put a faster charging option on my bike because they couldn’t disapate heat quickly enough on a faster charger but I just want DC compatibility.  I want faster charging, not a bigger charger on my bike.
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MrDude_1

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Re: Rethinking charging stations
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2017, 07:19:55 PM »

I find myself wishing the same thing.  Alta told me they couldn’t put a faster charging option on my bike because they couldn’t disapate heat quickly enough on a faster charger but I just want DC compatibility.  I want faster charging, not a bigger charger on my bike.

I want both...   I like the idea of plugging into a big charger that charges it up quickly and im on my way.  I also like being able to charge at a reasonable rate from ANY OUTLET. No special equipment. Because when you're 70+ miles from home and counting on the ONE piece of equipment that you dont own to get you home... its dicey. Think of all the times you pulled up to a gas station tire pump and it didnt work.
Then, its nice to be able to use any outlet. bigger outlets are better of course, but waiting to charge is better than waiting for a tow.
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NEW2elec

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Re: Rethinking charging stations
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2017, 08:52:43 PM »

Agreed both is the best option.  Our limited U.S. outlets of course weren't made for big battery charging but a little slow power is better than nothing, any port in a storm.

I have so few charging stations around me it makes buying a SCv2 or any other external charger a big waste of money.  I would pay a charging station say $5 to get the $1 of electricity that I get from home if it were a fast charge and I really needed the distance.

The problem, as I understand it, with DC fast charging is the high voltage needed to keep the amps and heat down.  Teslas and the Livewire and even Alta and Energica run at 300+ volts so the basic DC charging stations work for them.
The high voltage bikes suffer from less range out of the same kWh battery size due to more cells in series to bring the voltage up leaving less room for parallel cell groupings.

Which brought me to the idea of (to put it more clearly) the SCv2 charger components being inside the charging station not on my bike.  Three of them six of them twenty of them depending on the EV and what it can take.  I really don't like the J1772 power limits as they don't work for the type of quick charging that people want.
It goes back to the weak U.S. outlet standards. The J1772s were made for  overnight charging of larger battery cars from home and I guess for that use they are good enough.
But that gets a standard set for the plug type and power delivery rate that is way too slow for long distance highway travel.

So to all yall EEs out there I say just fix it.  :)
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NEW2elec

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Re: Rethinking charging stations
« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2017, 09:13:58 PM »

I found these two videos helped me to understand some of the issues (if not the deeper concepts) of where the problems are.  The videos won't make you an EE but you won't have $250,000 student load debt either :)

I like the bucket example at the 3:00 on this one and the evil gassing voltage that makes the boom and fire when you go over that amount.  Come on solid state electrolytes!



And a shorter and more basic one mostly because I like his accent.

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BrianTRice

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Re: Rethinking charging stations
« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2017, 02:33:22 AM »

I like those video finds, NEW2Elec! I'll try to use them on the wiki/manual.

PS You seem to no longer be "new to electrics". ;)
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Zero: 2016 DSR, 2013 DS
Also: 2012 Suzuki DL-650 V-Strom Adv

NEW2elec

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Re: Rethinking charging stations
« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2017, 07:34:48 PM »

Thanks Brian, it does feel like I'm a kid sitting at the grown up's table on here sometimes but I'm trying to keep up.
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