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Author Topic: Riding without a clutch  (Read 465 times)

adaviel

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Riding without a clutch
« on: October 15, 2017, 09:42:44 PM »

I just bought a Zero FXS to replace my Suzuki DR200 (dual sport) which was stolen. The Zero is actually a bit lighter (with one battery) and looks like it's going to be fun - I've only had it one day.

I rode the DR200 off-road occasionally, and took it aboard my sailboat. I plan on the same with the Zero.

I realize there are lots of situations where I use the clutch - not just for changing gear. E.g. I have a ramp to get my bike onto a truck or onto my boat, walking alongside. I use the clutch to hold the back wheel when backing down a ramp with the engine off. Or holding the bike on a 25% grade offroad with both feet on the rocks. Or parking on a 25% grade. The Zero looks like it would just run downhill as soon as I took my hand off the throttle.

How do other EV riders handle this ?

I'm having crazy ideas about retrofitting a left-hand brake lever like a bicycle, or spragging the rear wheel with a rod through the spokes.
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Erasmo

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Re: Riding without a clutch
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2017, 09:52:12 PM »

The bike has more rolling resistance than an ICE in neutral. Not enough to make pushing it hard but enough to keep it under control when going down a ramp.
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NEW2elec

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Re: Riding without a clutch
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2017, 08:18:46 AM »

I use a hitch carrier for my DS (much heavier) it has a ramp you can move from side to side so I just stay on the right side of the bike and use the throttle and front brake no problem.
Have a closely sized ratchet strap handy.
As for parking I use a nice big bicycle cable lock through the sprocket and frame.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2017, 07:57:03 PM by NEW2elec »
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adaviel

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Re: Riding without a clutch
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2017, 12:26:23 PM »

The bike has more rolling resistance than an ICE in neutral. Not enough to make pushing it hard but enough to keep it under control when going down a ramp.
Haven't tried the boat yet (a serious screw-up could put the bike in the water) but tried on my truck. Definitely not enough rolling resistance to make much difference on a 30 degree slope, and the handbook says not to try and use the motor to hold the bike on a slope. I'm still learning. I had it down to a fine art powering my DR200 up the ramp, but the tire on the Zero kept slipping.
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Keith

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Re: Riding without a clutch
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2017, 04:24:11 PM »

Add a left hand rear brake, many have, Zero should.
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2016 Zero FX, 2014 KTM 1190

NEW2elec

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Re: Riding without a clutch
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2017, 08:22:54 PM »

The front brake is stronger and a left brake lever would only use the rear.  You said the tire was slipping, what kind of ramp is it?  Is it just a board?  Take it for a walk around the yard off the bike with you left hand on the center of the handle bar, that helps keep the tire straight while your moving from throttle to brake.
A little practice on the throttle and maybe a custom app setting of 100% regen braking and throttle and I think you'll get the hang of it.
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adaviel

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Re: Riding without a clutch
« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2017, 10:02:37 PM »

Add a left hand rear brake, many have, Zero should.
Any details ? Zero say that they can't because of "regulatory guidelines" (US/California probably). They offer a >$600 "parking brake" which does 100% immobilization - not what I'm looking for, and seems to be  right-hand operation. (page 3-20 of the 2017 owners manual)
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adaviel

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Re: Riding without a clutch
« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2017, 10:18:09 PM »

The front brake is stronger and a left brake lever would only use the rear.  You said the tire was slipping, what kind of ramp is it?  Is it just a board?
I have two ramps. One is a C-section piece of steel. That's shown in my write-up at https://www.instructables.com/id/Getting-a-motorcycle-aboard-a-sailboat/. Later I got a piece of aluminium cable tray (which won't rust and stain the boat deck), a bit shorter and steeper than the steel, with cross-members every couple of inches like the one on the left at http://s7d3.scene7.com/is/image/ThomasBetts/prod_tnb-cable-tray02?wid=600&hei=275

On my truck, there's less risk, but no chance to turn the bike around. On my boat, I could turn it around and come down the ramp forwards, throwing the weight to the front wheel where the brake is. But my experience and confidence is in backing it down, and besides, whichever way you do it, having two braked wheels offers more control.
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clay.leihy

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Re: Riding without a clutch
« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2017, 04:45:43 AM »

Honda had no problem putting a left hand rear brake lever on the Silverwing. I don't buy "regulatory guidelines." I'm thinking cost savings, and that Zero wants the bikes to operate the way riders are familiar with.

Sent from my Z982 using Tapatalk

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Clay
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MrDude_1

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Re: Riding without a clutch
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2017, 11:30:02 PM »

Honda had no problem putting a left hand rear brake lever on the Silverwing. I don't buy "regulatory guidelines." I'm thinking cost savings, and that Zero wants the bikes to operate the way riders are familiar with.

Sent from my Z982 using Tapatalk

Silverwing is a SCOOTER and they commonly have the rear brake there.
The Zero lineup are MOTORCYCLES and they never have a rear brake there.
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clay.leihy

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Re: Riding without a clutch
« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2017, 11:47:39 PM »

Honda had no problem putting a left hand rear brake lever on the Silverwing. I don't buy "regulatory guidelines." I'm thinking cost savings, and that Zero wants the bikes to operate the way riders are familiar with.

Sent from my Z982 using Tapatalk

Silverwing is a SCOOTER and they commonly have the rear brake there.
The Zero lineup are MOTORCYCLES and they never have a rear brake there.
Nothing regulatory about it. Silverwing is legally a motorcycle, same regs.

My Silverwing was bigger, faster, heavier, and noisier than my Zero, clearly no less a motorcycle. (And, no need to shout.)

Sent from my Z982 using Tapatalk
« Last Edit: October 20, 2017, 11:59:31 PM by clay.leihy »
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Clay
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clay.leihy

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Re: Riding without a clutch
« Reply #11 on: October 21, 2017, 12:02:10 AM »

Honda had no problem putting a left hand rear brake lever on the Silverwing. I don't buy "regulatory guidelines." I'm thinking cost savings, and that Zero wants the bikes to operate the way riders are familiar with.

Sent from my Z982 using Tapatalk

Silverwing is a SCOOTER and they commonly have the rear brake there.
The Zero lineup are MOTORCYCLES and they never have a rear brake there.
Nothing regulatory about it. Silverwing is legally a motorcycle, same regs.

My Silverwing was bigger, faster, heavier, and noisier than my Zero, clearly no less a motorcycle. (And, no need to shout.)

Sent from my Z982 using Tapatalk
See also:

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eelectricmotorcycleforum%2Ecom%2Fboards%2Findex%2Ephp%3Ftopic%3D7454%2E0&share_tid=7454&share_fid=32392&share_type=t

Re: left hand rear brake for the Redshift

Sent from my Z982 using Tapatalk

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Clay
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StraydogEOMFD

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Re: Riding without a clutch
« Reply #12 on: October 21, 2017, 05:12:24 AM »

I like not having an extra thing to worry about when loading (clutch), not having to worry about stalling makes getting up a ramp easier for me.  I just cover the front brake lever and use it if I need to but honestly, I find I don't need it much.  I just use the throttle to roll the bike up the ramp as I walk up my hitch steps (revarc brand). 

Hitch Steps:

http://www.discountramps.com/revarc-smart-steps/p/REVARCSMART/

As for parking:

https://www.ebay.com/i/252909680098?chn=ps&dispItem=1
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Keith

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Re: Riding without a clutch
« Reply #13 on: October 21, 2017, 05:35:32 AM »

I use the revarc to load into my cargo van. I have a drop hitch mounted 90deg turned sideways so the steps are offset to get the ramp in a better place to clear the door with handlebars. Easy to run it up with careful throttle control, not hard to roll it down, not sure if I use my LHRB for that, maybe, it's there if I need it.

I think there is more to Zero's reluctance to add a left hand brake than just the "homologation" line that they gave me when I suggested it. It creates complexity because it isn't simple to combine lever and pedal (but I did*), and so it would become a build option and buyers wouldn't know what to choose if it was one or the other and it would add cost to have both, especially if hydraulic. It will be interesting to see what Alta does.

* http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=5328.msg50287#msg50287
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2016 Zero FX, 2014 KTM 1190

clay.leihy

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Re: Riding without a clutch
« Reply #14 on: October 21, 2017, 08:16:03 AM »

I use the revarc to load into my cargo van. I have a drop hitch mounted 90deg turned sideways so the steps are offset to get the ramp in a better place to clear the door with handlebars. Easy to run it up with careful throttle control, not hard to roll it down, not sure if I use my LHRB for that, maybe, it's there if I need it.

I think there is more to Zero's reluctance to add a left hand brake than just the "homologation" line that they gave me when I suggested it. It creates complexity because it isn't simple to combine lever and pedal (but I did*), and so it would become a build option and buyers wouldn't know what to choose if it was one or the other and it would add cost to have both, especially if hydraulic. It will be interesting to see what Alta does.

* http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=5328.msg50287#msg50287
I would just as soon lose the pedal.

Sent from my Z982 using Tapatalk
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Clay
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