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[jnef]

Hi,

With v49, my bike has been running perfectly for the last 4000 miles.  Recently needed new tires and got v51 at the same time.  Now, I have two significant issues.

Overall, my range is dramatically reduced.  I normally could easily take ~120 mile trips through the local mountains with >10% remaining; I can't make it any longer, about 100 miles is about the limit.  Initially seemed like the rear brake was dragging, but after some riding that seems OK now.

The major problem now is that the bike doesn't know the capacity of the batteries correctly.  Last night, I was riding, needed to stop for a charge in the mountains, and on the way back, the SOC got 'stuck' at ~55%:
 04629     09/29/2017 20:49:29   Batt Dischg Cur Limited    556 A (80%), MinCell: 3776mV, MaxPackTemp: 32C
 04630     09/29/2017 20:50:29   Riding                     PackTemp: h 32C, l 25C, PackSOC: 55%, Vpack:101.202V, MotAmps:  32, BattAmps:  20, Mods: 11, MotTemp:  47C, CtrlTemp:  30C, AmbTemp:  18C, MotRPM:2160, Odo:10877km
 04631     09/29/2017 20:50:29   Batt Dischg Cur Limited    568 A (82%), MinCell: 3776mV, MaxPackTemp: 32C
 04632     09/29/2017 20:51:29   Riding                     PackTemp: h 31C, l 25C, PackSOC: 55%, Vpack:100.834V, MotAmps:  26, BattAmps:  24, Mods: 11, MotTemp:  48C, CtrlTemp:  30C, AmbTemp:  18C, MotRPM:2505, Odo:10878km
 04633     09/29/2017 20:51:29   Batt Dischg Cur Limited    552 A (80%), MinCell: 3776mV, MaxPackTemp: 31C
 04634     09/29/2017 20:52:29   Riding                     PackTemp: h 31C, l 25C, PackSOC: 55%, Vpack: 97.273V, MotAmps: 410, BattAmps: 320, Mods: 11, MotTemp:  49C, CtrlTemp:  29C, AmbTemp:  19C, MotRPM:2806, Odo:10879km
 04635     09/29/2017 20:52:29   Batt Dischg Cur Limited    542 A (78%), MinCell: 3776mV, MaxPackTemp: 31C
 04636     09/29/2017 20:53:29   Riding                     PackTemp: h 31C, l 25C, PackSOC: 55%, Vpack:101.286V, MotAmps: -56, BattAmps: -23, Mods: 11, MotTemp:  51C, CtrlTemp:  30C, AmbTemp:  19C, MotRPM:1823, Odo:10880km
 04637     09/29/2017 20:53:29   Batt Dischg Cur Limited    535 A (77%), MinCell: 3776mV, MaxPackTemp: 31C
.... (shortened; did stop and power cycle, no change)
 04769     09/29/2017 21:37:29   Riding                     PackTemp: h 36C, l 28C, PackSOC: 51%, Vpack: 94.794V, MotAmps:  92, BattAmps:  50, Mods: 11, MotTemp:  57C, CtrlTemp:  31C, AmbTemp:  23C, MotRPM:1906, Odo:10942km
 04770     09/29/2017 21:37:29   Batt Dischg Cur Limited    177 A (25%), MinCell: 3776mV, MaxPackTemp: 36C
 04771     09/29/2017 21:38:29   Riding                     PackTemp: h 36C, l 28C, PackSOC: 51%, Vpack: 94.932V, MotAmps: 101, BattAmps:  17, Mods: 11, MotTemp:  60C, CtrlTemp:  32C, AmbTemp:  22C, MotRPM: 494, Odo:10943km
 04772     09/29/2017 21:38:29   Batt Dischg Cur Limited    172 A (24%), MinCell: 3776mV, MaxPackTemp: 36C
 04773     09/29/2017 21:39:29   Riding                     PackTemp: h 36C, l 28C, PackSOC: 52%, Vpack: 95.535V, MotAmps:   0, BattAmps:   2, Mods: 11, MotTemp:  58C, CtrlTemp:  30C, AmbTemp:  23C, MotRPM:   0, Odo:10943km
 04774     09/29/2017 21:39:29   Batt Dischg Cur Limited    191 A (27%), MinCell: 3776mV, MaxPackTemp: 36C

At this point, the dash still indicated 100 miles of remaining range and 52% SOC, but you can clearly see that I was  basically empty.

The following charge was also interesting, in that the SOC decreases as it charges:
 04800     09/29/2017 21:54:25   Charging                   PackTemp: h 35C, l 28C, AmbTemp: 25C, PackSOC: 49%, Vpack: 97.656V, BattAmps: -28, Mods: 11, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
 04801     09/29/2017 22:04:25   Charging                   PackTemp: h 35C, l 28C, AmbTemp: 27C, PackSOC: 50%, Vpack: 98.410V, BattAmps: -28, Mods: 11, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
 04802     09/29/2017 22:14:25   Charging                   PackTemp: h 35C, l 28C, AmbTemp: 28C, PackSOC: 45%, Vpack: 99.207V, BattAmps: -27, Mods: 11, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
 04803     09/29/2017 22:24:25   Charging                   PackTemp: h 35C, l 28C, AmbTemp: 29C, PackSOC: 37%, Vpack:100.010V, BattAmps: -26, Mods: 11, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
 04804     09/29/2017 22:34:25   Charging                   PackTemp: h 34C, l 29C, AmbTemp: 29C, PackSOC: 33%, Vpack:100.707V, BattAmps: -25, Mods: 11, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
 04805     09/29/2017 22:44:25   Charging                   PackTemp: h 34C, l 29C, AmbTemp: 30C, PackSOC: 32%, Vpack:101.337V, BattAmps: -27, Mods: 11, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
 04806     09/29/2017 22:54:25   Charging                   PackTemp: h 34C, l 29C, AmbTemp: 30C, PackSOC: 31%, Vpack:101.822V, BattAmps: -29, Mods: 11, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
 04807     09/29/2017 23:04:25   Charging                   PackTemp: h 34C, l 29C, AmbTemp: 31C, PackSOC: 31%, Vpack:102.207V, BattAmps: -26, Mods: 11, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
 04808     09/29/2017 23:14:25   Charging                   PackTemp: h 35C, l 30C, AmbTemp: 31C, PackSOC: 31%, Vpack:102.551V, BattAmps: -28, Mods: 11, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
 04809     09/29/2017 23:24:25   Charging                   PackTemp: h 36C, l 30C, AmbTemp: 31C, PackSOC: 33%, Vpack:102.876V, BattAmps: -29, Mods: 11, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
 04810     09/29/2017 23:34:25   Charging                   PackTemp: h 36C, l 30C, AmbTemp: 32C, PackSOC: 34%, Vpack:103.272V, BattAmps: -28, Mods: 11, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
 04811     09/29/2017 23:44:25   Charging                   PackTemp: h 37C, l 31C, AmbTemp: 32C, PackSOC: 36%, Vpack:103.704V, BattAmps: -29, Mods: 11, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
 04812     09/29/2017 23:54:25   Charging                   PackTemp: h 38C, l 32C, AmbTemp: 32C, PackSOC: 39%, Vpack:104.219V, BattAmps: -29, Mods: 11, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
 04813     09/30/2017 00:04:25   Charging                   PackTemp: h 39C, l 32C, AmbTemp: 33C, PackSOC: 44%, Vpack:104.875V, BattAmps: -31, Mods: 11, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
 04814     09/30/2017 00:14:25   Charging                   PackTemp: h 40C, l 33C, AmbTemp: 33C, PackSOC: 49%, Vpack:105.603V, BattAmps: -28, Mods: 11, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
 04815     09/30/2017 00:24:25   Charging                   PackTemp: h 40C, l 34C, AmbTemp: 34C, PackSOC: 54%, Vpack:106.504V, BattAmps: -30, Mods: 11, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
 04816     09/30/2017 00:34:25   Charging                   PackTemp: h 41C, l 34C, AmbTemp: 34C, PackSOC: 59%, Vpack:107.570V, BattAmps: -24, Mods: 11, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
 04817     09/30/2017 00:44:25   Charging                   PackTemp: h 42C, l 35C, AmbTemp: 34C, PackSOC: 65%, Vpack:108.649V, BattAmps: -28, Mods: 11, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
 04818     09/30/2017 00:54:25   Charging                   PackTemp: h 42C, l 35C, AmbTemp: 35C, PackSOC: 71%, Vpack:109.691V, BattAmps: -27, Mods: 11, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
 04819     09/30/2017 01:02:51   CAN0 BIT1 error. count=2
 04820     09/30/2017 01:04:25   Charging                   PackTemp: h 42C, l 36C, AmbTemp: 35C, PackSOC: 76%, Vpack:110.793V, BattAmps: -29, Mods: 11, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
 04821     09/30/2017 01:14:25   Charging                   PackTemp: h 43C, l 36C, AmbTemp: 35C, PackSOC: 81%, Vpack:111.888V, BattAmps: -28, Mods: 11, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
 04822     09/30/2017 01:24:25   Charging                   PackTemp: h 43C, l 36C, AmbTemp: 35C, PackSOC: 86%, Vpack:113.002V, BattAmps: -27, Mods: 11, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
 04823     09/30/2017 01:34:25   Charging                   PackTemp: h 44C, l 37C, AmbTemp: 35C, PackSOC: 91%, Vpack:114.167V, BattAmps: -28, Mods: 11, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
 04824     09/30/2017 01:44:25   Charging                   PackTemp: h 44C, l 37C, AmbTemp: 36C, PackSOC: 97%, Vpack:115.399V, BattAmps: -28, Mods: 11, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
 04825     09/30/2017 01:54:25   Charging                   PackTemp: h 44C, l 37C, AmbTemp: 36C, PackSOC:100%, Vpack:115.728V, BattAmps: -11, Mods: 11, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
 04826     09/30/2017 02:04:25   Charging                   PackTemp: h 44C, l 37C, AmbTemp: 36C, PackSOC:100%, Vpack:115.994V, BattAmps:  -9, Mods: 11, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
 04827     09/30/2017 02:14:25   Charging                   PackTemp: h 44C, l 37C, AmbTemp: 36C, PackSOC:100%, Vpack:116.203V, BattAmps:  -5, Mods: 11, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
 04828     09/30/2017 02:24:25   Charging                   PackTemp: h 44C, l 37C, AmbTemp: 36C, PackSOC:100%, Vpack:116.262V, BattAmps:  -3, Mods: 11, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
 04829     09/30/2017 02:34:25   Charging                   PackTemp: h 44C, l 37C, AmbTemp: 36C, PackSOC:100%, Vpack:116.262V, BattAmps:  -1, Mods: 11, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
 04830     09/30/2017 02:44:25   Charging                   PackTemp: h 44C, l 38C, AmbTemp: 36C, PackSOC:100%, Vpack:116.221V, BattAmps:  -1, Mods: 11, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
 04831     09/30/2017 02:54:25   Charging                   PackTemp: h 44C, l 38C, AmbTemp: 36C, PackSOC:100%, Vpack:116.198V, BattAmps:  -1, Mods: 11, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
 04832     09/30/2017 03:04:26   Charging                   PackTemp: h 44C, l 38C, AmbTemp: 36C, PackSOC:100%, Vpack:116.180V, BattAmps:  -1, Mods: 11, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
 04833     09/30/2017 03:06:57   CAN0 BIT1 error. count=1
 04834     09/30/2017 03:14:26   Charging                   PackTemp: h 43C, l 38C, AmbTemp: 36C, PackSOC:100%, Vpack:116.149V, BattAmps:  -1, Mods: 11, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
 04835     09/30/2017 03:24:26   Charging                   PackTemp: h 43C, l 38C, AmbTemp: 36C, PackSOC:100%, Vpack:116.137V, BattAmps:  -1, Mods: 11, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No


Lastly, the BMS things that the batteries are all double!
*************  BMS #0  ***************
  - BMS Board Rev             :  03
  - BMS Firmware Rev          :  39
  - BMS Serial Number         : 2015_bms_48eb4f_03209
  - Battery Serial Number     : 16qd2747
  - CAN Rx in last second     :   90

  - Pack SOC                  :  100%
  - Fuel Gauge                :  100%
  - Age of SOC Data           :  89 ms

  - Model Year                : 2016
  - Pack Capacity             : 185 AH
  - Pack Capacity Remaining   : 185 AH
  - Total Energy Used         :  64 KWH
  - Number Of Bricks          :   4

*************  BMS #1  ***************
  - BMS Board Rev             :  03
  - BMS Firmware Rev          :  39
  - BMS Serial Number         : 2015_bms_48eb4f_03529
  - Battery Serial Number     : 15sg0114
  - CAN Rx in last second     :   49

  - Pack SOC                  :  100%
  - Fuel Gauge                :  100%
  - Age of SOC Data           :  48 ms

  - Model Year                : 2015
  - Pack Capacity             :  40 AH
  - Pack Capacity Remaining   :  40 AH
  - Total Energy Used         :  14 KWH
  - Number Of Bricks          :   1



Any ideas?  Would an all statistics reset help?

Jon

[nevetsyad]

This is crazy, but, I just got new tired and the latest firmware today and I'm seeing a similar issue. Got home and plugged in the superchargers...battery says 100% charged at 9.4kWh capacity, normally I have another kWh or more in there. The Supercharger was still pushing 2kW while the bike said it was done for a while. I was about to tell diginow that there is a problem, but I think the bike may just be wrong with SOC.

[nevetsyad]

Just realized, the paperwork from the dealership says I have a ZF11.4, did they put the wrong firmware on both of our bikes? My app says my capacity is 9.4kWh, instead of 11.2 or whatever I normally have.

[jnef]

Just realized, the paperwork from the dealership says I have a ZF11.4, did they put the wrong firmware on both of our bikes? My app says my capacity is 9.4kWh, instead of 11.2 or whatever I normally have.

I didn’t think that mattered?  Mine is crazy high though, thinks it has 26.1kwh, which isn’t near right... 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[nevetsyad]

They screwed something up on the latest firmware, that's for sure. Who's quality controlling this stuff?!?

[nevetsyad]

Just saw your pics, that's crazy. I think we both have related problems.

[nevetsyad]

Your logs say

Model Year                : 2015
  - Pack Capacity             :  40 AH
  - Pack Capacity Remaining   :  40 AH
  - Total Energy Used         :  14 KWH

You have a 2016 you said, right?

[tamjam]

My DSR needs a near rear tire any day now so I was going to have my dealer update the firmware while it was with them but under the pretense of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" I may skip the update since I have had a literally trouble-free 12 months and 5,300 miles since I bought this thing and would prefer to keep it that way.

[nevetsyad]

I've had a laundry list of problems and finally had a stable firmware installed a few months ago. When the tech offered to update it for free, the wife looked at me like, "Really, you want to roll the dice again?". And I chose the wrong answer.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Exactly what I should have said.

[jnef]

Your logs say

Model Year                : 2015
  - Pack Capacity             :  40 AH
  - Pack Capacity Remaining   :  40 AH
  - Total Energy Used         :  14 KWH

You have a 2016 you said, right?

That’s the powertank — they ran down their older 2015 module inventory with the PTs in 2016. The bms0 is the monolith.   That module was 20ah before the update.

[DPsSRnSD]

Check you custom settings too. My regen settings were changed by a firmware update, resulting in a 10% reduction in range before I realized that was the problem.

[nevetsyad]

No change on my settings. But my battery logs now take over an hour to pull, and the parser keeps erring out when opening them.

Are you on v51 also?

[jnef]

Check you custom settings too. My regen settings were changed by a firmware update, resulting in a 10% reduction in range before I realized that was the problem.

Good point— Yes, all of my settings were also reset but that was obvious and I reset those quickly.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Shadow]

Custom mode settings are never retained for at least 2016 MY when flashing firmware. The bike parameters are stored in the MBB and your dealer may have made a mistake or was unaware. If this was a bug then your dealer should take the bike back for service and work it out with Zero HQ.

[jnef]

Custom mode settings are never retained for at least 2016 MY when flashing firmware. The bike parameters are stored in the MBB and your dealer may have made a mistake or was unaware. If this was a bug then your dealer should take the bike back for service and work it out with Zero HQ.

Hi Shadow,

It isn't an issue of the custom settings.  As you note those are always reset, as is the log file, when the firmware gets updated.  I reset the settings how I like before leaving the dealer.  This issue is much more significant -- the BMS just can't figure out capacity any longer.  The AH values of each pack changes to impossible values.  Sometimes as much as double causing one to run out near 50% (as much as it's cool showing as a 28kwhr pack, it isn't...)  Sometimes the other way where SOC drops like a rock even when standing still.  If I partial charge, say in the middle of a ride, then the SOC will read way too high, and there is no reasonable way to know what is going to happen.

The painful part is that in my case there is a noticeable drop in overall range as well.  I'd normally just deal with it, but on routes that I used to be able to make comfortably, I can't any longer.

The dealer has seen the bike since then, and they were working with Zero.  The last reply I got from them was that the whole mess is because I occasionally charge at 33A, with the onboard and 2x Delta-Q (sold by Zero).  Funny that I've done that since the bike was new and it never caused a problem on the previous firmware. Regardless, this configuration and process should well be supported and the implication that it isn't really bothers me now.  I was hoping to hear back from them again.  I'll update if anything happens.  I know there are several others with the exact same problem after moving to this firmware.