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[togo]

Wow, maybe not.

http://evtv.me/2016/04/hitting-cylinders-electric-automobile/

"obsolete-on-introduction frankenplug (SAE Combo at a miserly 90kw)"

[Rugby4life]

Wow, maybe not.

http://evtv.me/2016/04/hitting-cylinders-electric-automobile/

"obsolete-on-introduction frankenplug (SAE Combo at a miserly 90kw)"

* written by a Tesla fanboy a year ago*
His prediction of CCS becoming obsolete isn't going to happen in the next 5 years. I just don't see a wholesale DC charging infrastructure overhaul across the entire US anytime soon. By the time that happens I'll have a new Zero and probably looking for another replacement for the still stock 1.3kw level 1 charger Zero will continue to use with their new 25kw/h battery pack. ;-)

[togo]

Yeah, those are fair points.  Looks like CCS will be able to go to 350kw soon.  That's 3.5C for a 100kwh car, the highest capacity on the road right now.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined_Charging_System

[Lenny]

It's important to know that those 350 kW will only be reached with battery voltages of 800V or higher. Same as i.e. the Tesla Superchargers, the CCS plugs are current limited. Depending on the manufacturer and source they currently talk about 200-300A of current. So on 400V, they will no be able to deliver more than Tesla already does.

And most importantly, as you already noted, the cars capable of actually taking that much power are still to be announced ;-)

[Erasmo]

I am totally with you, and I have no idea. 

J1772 inlets are fairly easy to find, and CCS Combo seem to be much harder to price.

A CCS inlet is about €1300-1400.

[motornissen]

As I understand it they had developed a product, found it didn't work on
enough of the stations tested that it would be frustrating and expensive
to sell and support.  At the time.  For the sample of stations available at
the time.

But I don't really know the whole story, that's just what I pieced together.

Yes, I know, not a conspiracy, but you know, you set it up with an East Coast
West Coast kind of comment.

Workaround to the 200v minimum would be, if you have a AC charger that
also works on DC, to run it through that.

In other words, tell the station that you require within the range they can do that
overlaps what the charger can handle, say, 240VDC and use that to run the charger
at a rate limited to what it can do and what your battery can handle.

For example, I'd expect that my diginow SCv2 9.9kw system would (if compatible
with DC, which I have yet to test), be able to take 240VDC to charge my battery at
1C, i.e. 9.9kw, up to 116.5VDC.

So if that's true, then the missing piece is the signalling to tell the station that a vehicle
is present, and that the vehicle is ready to charge at 240VDC.

And the inlet itself.

I Think that’s the way to go.
Then you have the option for both ccs and type 2 charging. But there isn’t any real benefit from the ccs charging, when the ac charging is just as fast.

If any body builds something, I would love to test it. We have our own 50kw ccs and chademo charger, and we can set it to go as low as 50vdc. And I have a zero, we can use for testing.


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[motornissen]

I am totally with you, and I have no idea. 

J1772 inlets are fairly easy to find, and CCS Combo seem to be much harder to price.

A CCS inlet is about €1300-1400.

You can get them from the BMW I3.
I got ahold of two, with the wrong wire color for about 120€. But I don’t know if I can get more.


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[Rugby4life]

I am totally with you, and I have no idea. 

J1772 inlets are fairly easy to find, and CCS Combo seem to be much harder to price.

A CCS inlet is about €1300-1400.

You can get them from the BMW I3.
I got ahold of two, with the wrong wire color for about 120€. But I don’t know if I can get more.


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Duh, why didn't I think of that. Hat tip to motornissen.

[motornissen]

It's important to know that those 350 kW will only be reached with battery voltages of 800V or higher. Same as i.e. the Tesla Superchargers, the CCS plugs are current limited. Depending on the manufacturer and source they currently talk about 200-300A of current. So on 400V, they will no be able to deliver more than Tesla already does.

And most importantly, as you already noted, the cars capable of actually taking that much power are still to be announced ;-)

CCS will become the new standard in Europe, and the 350kw charge stations is as far as I know a demand from manufacturers.



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[Electric Terry]

Agreed Tony and Motornissen, this makes the most sense.  Zero is not going to go to the 300v range any time soon if ever, and many CCS stations only work (for now) between 300 and 450 volts DC.  Trouble is I think that would be over the max input voltage range of the chargers unless you combine 2 chargers in series on the input side, tell the station you want the full 450 volts and get 225 vdc as input per charger.   Wow then you can also parallel chargers this way to get more amps out of the station.

For right now, you can source enough power using 2 J plugs to max the 1 C charge limit out of a Zero, or just 1 Tesla destination charger.  In fact the Tesla destination charger is just a good to us as the CCS or CHAdeMO but there are 700% more of them out there.  So if the 1C limit were ever to go to 2C you could still charge with 2 Tesla plugs, but then it might make sense to figure this out.  For now using the DC charging network to try to charge a Zero doesn't make much sense when there are so many better options.

Again I wish the fast charging police would come in and force all the stations to go down to 50 volts, but because of the desire to reduce cost of the stations, making them only run 300-450 volts must have been a consideration and property owners have the ability to buy the lowest cost DC chargers which are probably not ones that go to 50 volts.

Because one day it would be nice to charge without having to carry the chargers onboard, but this past year with the Diginow superchargers now being so small, carrying 1C of charging on any Zero is not impossible anymore.   And that's the best you could get anyway!

[Rugby4life]

My only fear in buying a set up for Tesla stations is if Elon Musk gets his panties in a wad over a bunch of scruffy Zero riders making his high brow customers uncomfortable hanging around "their" chargers, he clicks a few keys and poof, no more access for those scruffy Zero riders. Then what?

[DPsSRnSD]

My only fear in buying a set up for Tesla stations is if Elon Musk gets his panties in a wad over a bunch of scruffy Zero riders making his high brow customers uncomfortable hanging around "their" chargers, he clicks a few keys and poof, no more access for those scruffy Zero riders. Then what?

Good thing a few of those scruffy riders own Teslas and Zeros and know how to use Twitter. 

[anton]

My only fear in buying a set up for Tesla stations is if Elon Musk gets his panties in a wad over a bunch of scruffy Zero riders making his high brow customers uncomfortable hanging around "their" chargers, he clicks a few keys and poof, no more access for those scruffy Zero riders. Then what?

Destination chargers are owned by businesses, not Tesla. Also, there's no way for Tesla to remotely turn off destination chargers as that feature doesn't exist on them.

[Rugby4life]

My only fear in buying a set up for Tesla stations is if Elon Musk gets his panties in a wad over a bunch of scruffy Zero riders making his high brow customers uncomfortable hanging around "their" chargers, he clicks a few keys and poof, no more access for those scruffy Zero riders. Then what?

Destination chargers are owned by businesses, not Tesla. Also, there's no way for Tesla to remotely turn off destination chargers as that feature doesn't exist on them.

Do you ever run into the issue of the business (mostly upscale hotels around here) not allowing you to use their charger unless you're a registered guest?

[Electric Cowboy]

CCS and Chademo both go from 200-500 v on almost all stations. And average from 50-150A mostly 100A. I'm sitting at one in my leaf now doing 100A. With the SCv2 we can do 128A at far more places, 2 jplugs or 1 Tesla plug. The CCS and Chademo stations are always busy, and there just are not enough of them. If I didn't lease my leaf, I would already have SCv2 on it so I could charge faster. As it stands, I can travel much faster from LA to SF on my bike than my leaf because there are not enough chademos to make  the trip in the leaf. I must use jplugs because there is no other option. Which means on your Zero you would need to spend the night using your onboard if you only had Chademo. And charge slower than you could with an SCv2 the whole trip. Seems like a silly choice all around.

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