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Author Topic: Make a Zero run while charging  (Read 547 times)

craigster

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Make a Zero run while charging
« on: August 03, 2017, 07:12:34 AM »

Hi all,

Wondering if anyone knew a way for me to get a Zero motorcycle to fully operate, whilst plugged in and charging (theoretically like if I was towing a generator). Need your help!

Thanks!
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BrianTRice

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Re: Make a Zero run while charging
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2017, 08:00:37 AM »

Electrically, this is not a problem, but it'll be best to connect to the controller to power the motor in parallel than to try charging the battery while riding. The motor output of >6kW at 55mph ensures a 0.6C rate of discharge which most mobile generators can't match at all. So it's better to arrange the circuit this way to minimize current flow on any circuit.

Also, the generator output will be less than regen typically.

But more to the point, can this generator emit the right DC voltage instead of wasting AC on a switching power supply?

And can you arrange the connection to avoid cable wear, motion, and provide for emergency disconnect?
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craigster

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Re: Make a Zero run while charging
« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2017, 09:34:02 PM »

thanks for the reply. I was thinking that too - going straight to the controller, however generators like to run at constant rpm and output, if I were say going from idle to 55mph like you say I don't know if the generator would be able to handle such fast transitions in power demand. I am still just learning about all of this, its for a school project so any help is appreciated. Let me know what you think
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BrianTRice

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Re: Make a Zero run while charging
« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2017, 11:44:38 PM »

thanks for the reply. I was thinking that too - going straight to the controller, however generators like to run at constant rpm and output, if I were say going from idle to 55mph like you say I don't know if the generator would be able to handle such fast transitions in power demand. I am still just learning about all of this, its for a school project so any help is appreciated. Let me know what you think

Running the cables to the controller should not couple the generator to the motor's power demand. The battery and controller are connected to one circuit while running, and the battery will accept power back into it, usually via regenerative braking, but an additional generator on the same "bus" would have the same effect.

Basically, the controller terminals are just the best point to join a generator to this system to keep all of the power involved within the rated capacity.

However, I think you will have to carefully figure out how to get a generator to produce DC in a range compatible with the battery, though, and how to implement circuit protections so that these 3 major items (battery, motor controller, and generator) all play well together. In the worst case, I'd expect that the generator deserves a controller (Arduino-level capable) that connected to the CANbus, read out system voltage, regulated the generator to match that and act like a CC-CV charger (constant output current until matching the battery's top static voltage, at which point to reduce until cutting off as needed). The CV taper/cutoff behavior would have to be dynamic especially at high states of charge because regenerative braking might cause voltage to rise quickly.
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Hamisato

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Re: Make a Zero run while charging
« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2017, 11:19:18 AM »

I think your idea is very good.

BrianTRice

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Re: Make a Zero run while charging
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2017, 01:52:26 AM »

I should say for anyone reading that this almost assuredly would invalidate warranty repair coverage if the arrangement causes damage. Connecting power supplies in any way requires a professional mindset, research, and safeguards.

This might destroy the connecting lugs, or damage the generator or the controller, if implemented without a real load-sharing plan in mind with maybe an extra controller to manage the generator.
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Doctorbass

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Re: Make a Zero run while charging
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2018, 01:22:29 AM »

I  am now considering that idea too as i'm planning a long trip to the north of Quebec where there is lake and forest for multiple hundred miles without any house, grid or any presense. The longest part of my trip is about 400km right to the north and as it is not a paved road, but it is just rough gravel i expect to do about 200km max si i will ned a second powersource than battery.

Connecting a generator is the only way unless i make the TERRY mod with expensive  additional  battery witch i dont have now.

A 4kw generator and running at a power of 8kW should double my range and do the 400km.

Did anyone succeded to run the SCv2 output without being connected to the brown connector on the Zero?.. Because it is obvious that charging while riding require to not have the Zero to detect the presense of the charger, so it must be connected to the controler and require the scv2 to be trigerred anyway.

Doc
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Doug S

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Re: Make a Zero run while charging
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2018, 02:07:07 AM »

Did anyone succeded to run the SCv2 output without being connected to the brown connector on the Zero?.. Because it is obvious that charging while riding require to not have the Zero to detect the presense of the charger, so it must be connected to the controler and require the scv2 to be trigerred anyway.

Hey Doc, I guess I'm not seeing the problem. If the bike is keyed on, the contactor is by definition closed, so you should be able to charge through the Anderson connector, period. I don't think the SCv2 requires any handshaking or anything to fire up, and I can't see why you couldn't just run current into the battery (via the Anderson connector, direct connection to the motor controller, or however) while the bike is running. I don't think the bike has any way to know (or would care) that there's current coming in from off the bike. You would just be reducing the current draw from the battery to move the bike, or (with a more powerful generator/charger or lower consumption) even actually charging while riding.

What the SoC firmware will display under those circumstances is anybody's guess. It doesn't work right under ideal conditions, it certainly isn't going to work under oddball conditions like that.
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BrianTRice

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Re: Make a Zero run while charging
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2018, 10:06:20 AM »

SCv2 can easily be connected to the controller terminals, and it is best to do so, because it will minimize the amount of current flowing through the cables.

The motor, when supplied with power from any other power source, will draw less current from the battery.

SoC calculations would then depend on where current is sensed. If it were just one battery, it'd be defined by that battery's BMS. With a Power Tank, maybe it's less clear, but I would hope the current sensors are relative to the battery and not to the controller or motor.

I think the only problem is to run the generator so that it could operate in a stable way despite a variable load or a shifting load (mostly the load is the motor, until there's regen and then it's the battery, and then it'd have to transition to idle without lurching). Or, basically what I said above.
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Zero: 2016 DSR, 2013 DS
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