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Author Topic: EV@TucsonEV.com  (Read 3429 times)

MrDude_1

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Re: EV@TucsonEV.com
« Reply #30 on: July 16, 2017, 06:40:22 AM »

Ok, I'll bite, apart from some prehistoric clocks why is 60Hz better in your opinion?

Efficiency. 360 is not divisible by 50. You can't cheat physics, even if it seems to fit the metric system better.
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giacomo

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Re: EV@TucsonEV.com
« Reply #31 on: July 16, 2017, 09:03:25 AM »

Ok, I'll bite, apart from some prehistoric clocks why is 60Hz better in your opinion?

Efficiency. 360 is not divisible by 50. You can't cheat physics, even if it seems to fit the metric system better.
What is 360? I don't think it is angular measurement because it does nothing to do with 50 Hz... Power-wise 50 or 60 Hz is the same so not sure why 60 Hz is better than 50 Hz.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk

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macstructures

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Re: EV@TucsonEV.com
« Reply #32 on: July 16, 2017, 09:18:40 AM »

You can plug it in a power source and hook it up to the aux port. But to be honest both the quick charger and adapter from Zero are overpriced and have better alternatives.


Erasmo, what other alternatives do you suggest and do these alternatives use a C13 or C19 plug? trying to determine the best option on the extra plug on the adapter from TucsonEV.
Depends on your wishes and budget, do you just want to charge with the onboard charger at charging stations or do you want to charge faster? Oh an do you have a power tank?

I would like to charge a little faster, but don't want to expend a lot $$$, really no need for it... I just ride for pleasure and can plan rides depending on charge capacity. Eventually would like to charge using charging stations... thats is why I'm looking into getting an adapter (Tucson EV) to use the charging stations... but for now it will charge at the same speed as the home wall outlet.

Maybe looking into buying a quick charger to use at home or on the go, but I don't want to carry a lot of items with me, just items that will fit the "tank" storage of the motorcycle... Im not sure if a Zero or similar quick charge will fit in this area.

Question: Can I use a quick charger like Zeros at a charging station? I don't know how these work... how I supply power to it? Can I use the Tucson EV adapter for this setup?

How fast will it charge if I use a J1772 charging at the station(using only the Tucson adapter) and a quick charger if possible?

What other quick charges would you suggest, price and advantages? trying to buy something not to expensive... but also that I can use for a few years and with the option of upgrading ?

To answer your question... No power tank at this moment... are these worth it... $2000 (zero) or better a quick charger for $600 (zero) ?

The DIGINOW SUPERCHARGER V2 @ $1,755.00 (plus installation) looks like a really cool option and with future upgrades options... but still a lot of $$$ for a pleasure rider.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2017, 10:03:01 AM by macstructures »
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macstructures

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Re: EV@TucsonEV.com
« Reply #33 on: July 16, 2017, 11:40:28 AM »

Thank you for all the info and suggestions... very helpful.

Im going to buy the Tucson adapter, but not sure yet on the 2nd plug. (or 3rd) :-[

If it is a C13, I can plug in : (1) another charger that you can use to plug into the Accessory Charging Port above the motor, or (2) a second electric vehicle to charge, or (3) some random electrical load to add like a USB charger for your phone, or some lighting or whatever. It will be a  3-way power strip for charging stations. (per other members.. thanks)

Also, If I eventually buy another charger, only Zero's 1kW Quick Charger will use that C13 (per member...thanks)

Question: What other chargers use the C13 plug? Name and price will be great to get an idea and research more info.

The same question if I have a C19 plug, what type of chargers can I use?. I know I can get an adapter with 3 plus (2xC13 and 1xC19), but do I really need 3 plugs?

I decided to copy/paste some of the info from other members... IMO easier that the "quote" option.






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Erasmo

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Re: EV@TucsonEV.com
« Reply #34 on: July 16, 2017, 01:38:29 PM »

Before you order, Brian has a nice charger for sale that might fit your needs quite well: http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=7006.0

Ok, I'll bite, apart from some prehistoric clocks why is 60Hz better in your opinion?

Efficiency. 360 is not divisible by 50. You can't cheat physics, even if it seems to fit the metric system better.
Why would I want to divide 360 by my net frequency?

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Doug S

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Re: EV@TucsonEV.com
« Reply #35 on: July 16, 2017, 08:42:43 PM »

It makes me sad that only that TINY area is light-blue.
Lots of area with the correct voltage, but a stupid frequency.
Other areas with low voltage, but the right frequency.
and the brown areas that are as wrong as possible. lol.

Historically, here in the States, 117VAC was chosen for residential power because that was deemed the highest voltage that isn't usually quite lethal (doesn't that make you all warm and fuzzy?). And I've been told that 60 cycles was chosen because the flickering it causes in arc-lamp sources (which were the most common electrical light sources back then) is just fast enough that it's not visible to adults (apparently kids can see it -- their eyes are just a bit faster to respond). The flickering is actually at TWICE line frequency since the arc intensifies at voltage maxima, both positive and negative.

In reality, the voltage/lethality curve is just that, a curve. Higher voltages are more likely to be lethal, you can pick your point on the curve. It's also true that high voltage delivers power at a lower current than lower voltage, requiring less copper (smaller wires), so there is a good reason to favor higher voltage when you can.

Higher frequencies do have some advantages. Light flicker became a non-issue with incandescent light bulbs, but it reappeared with fluorescent lighting. I remember even at 60 cycles I could see the flickering when I was in high school; close fluorescent lighting could give me a migraine. As far as efficiency goes, the fact that 360 is evenly divisible by 60 is a meaningless numerical coincidence, but it is true that a transformer designed for 50 cycles will have to be somewhat larger than the equivalent transformer designed for 60 cycles...the magnetic coupling that a transformer uses is more effective at higher frequencies. That's why airplanes distribute power at 400 cycles -- it makes for much smaller transformers, saving weight, which is critical on airplanes. But there are other considerations as well. Motors become difficult to manufacture at too high of a frequency, and the larger the motor, the more difficult it gets. Also, power lines actually radiate some power away, like radio frequency antennas, and the higher the frequency, the worse the power loss becomes. Skin effect can become a factor on very large conductors, and is worse at higher frequencies.

As is almost always the case, there is no "good" power and no "bad" power. There are only design compromises that have to be made.
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Erasmo

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Re: EV@TucsonEV.com
« Reply #36 on: July 16, 2017, 09:53:22 PM »

60Hz transformers might be smaller but they do have more losses due to eddy currents.

I work with 400Hz, very nice but the noise makes you crazy...
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macstructures

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Re: EV@TucsonEV.com
« Reply #37 on: July 17, 2017, 05:53:13 AM »

Before you order, Brian has a nice charger for sale that might fit your needs quite well: http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=7006.0



I will still need an adapter from Tucson EV to use a charging station, this item has a J1772 adapter to the NEMA 14-50 plug, not a C13 to plug to the motorcycle, but might be a good option for just the charger... but it looks too big to fit in the "tank" storage area, I don't have additional storage areas and don't want to add more... want keep it looking lean and mean  8) :)... not a delivery or long trip vehicle.

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togo

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Re: EV@TucsonEV.com
« Reply #38 on: July 17, 2017, 06:24:51 AM »

...
If it is a C13, I can plug in : (1) another charger that you can use to plug into the Accessory Charging Port above the motor, or (2) a second electric vehicle to charge, or (3) some random electrical load to add like a USB charger for your phone, or some lighting or whatever. It will be a  3-way power strip for charging stations. (per other members.. thanks)
...

I've used a 4-way C14/C13 to slow-charge up to 4 bikes from one TucsonEV J1772.  1.3KW each easily fits within the 6.7kw Chargepoints have.  I did exceed the C13 specs, so it's not recommended, but if contacts are clean, little heat is generated, it worked.

TucsonEV offers two different wire gauges, IIRC.  I chose the larger.

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macstructures

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Re: EV@TucsonEV.com
« Reply #39 on: July 17, 2017, 06:33:32 AM »

...
If it is a C13, I can plug in : (1) another charger that you can use to plug into the Accessory Charging Port above the motor, or (2) a second electric vehicle to charge, or (3) some random electrical load to add like a USB charger for your phone, or some lighting or whatever. It will be a  3-way power strip for charging stations. (per other members.. thanks)
...

I've used a 4-way C14/C13 to slow-charge up to 4 bikes from one TucsonEV J1772.  1.3KW each easily fits within the 6.7kw Chargepoints have.  I did exceed the C13 specs, so it's not recommended, but if contacts are clean, little heat is generated, it worked.

TucsonEV offers two different wire gauges, IIRC.  I chose the larger.

ok.. Tucson EV now only offers the C19 with a larger gauge wire... C13 with 14 AWG and C19 with 12 AWG.
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macstructures

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Re: EV@TucsonEV.com
« Reply #40 on: July 17, 2017, 06:37:55 AM »

What other chargers use the C13 plug(besides of Zero's)? Name and price will be great to get an idea and research more info.

The same question if I have a C19 plug, what type of chargers can I use?. I know I can get an adapter with 3 plus (2xC13 and 1xC19), but do I really need 3 plugs?


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macstructures

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Re: EV@TucsonEV.com
« Reply #41 on: July 17, 2017, 10:43:02 AM »

Please help me understand how a quick charger is setup.

If I buy the Tucson adapter, 2xC13, I will plug the J1772 to the charging station, then one C13 to the motorcycle, the other C13 to the Zero's quick charger and the plug of the quick charger to the Accessory Charging Port above the motor, correct?

Where does the quick charger gets the extra power, from the J1772 connection (charging station)?
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BrianTRice@gmail.com

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Re: EV@TucsonEV.com
« Reply #42 on: July 17, 2017, 10:48:09 AM »

I've updated the Level 2 adapter cord section to clarify what they can connect to: http://zeromanual.com/index.php/Zero_Aftermarket#Adapter_Cord
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togo

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Re: EV@TucsonEV.com
« Reply #43 on: July 17, 2017, 10:50:26 AM »

Please help me understand how a quick charger is setup.

...

Quick chargers generally have their own J1772 inlets and feed into Aux Anderson SB75X (iirc) or Controller lugs. The C13 adapters are for people who want to charge with the onboard slowchargers.
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macstructures

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Re: EV@TucsonEV.com
« Reply #44 on: July 17, 2017, 10:50:42 AM »

I've updated the Level 2 adapter cord section to clarify what they can connect to: http://zeromanual.com/index.php/Zero_Aftermarket#Adapter_Cord

Very helpful, thank you for all your work.
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