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Author Topic: Thoughts on Purchasing a Leftover 2016 Empulse TT  (Read 528 times)

Vtwinwilly

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Thoughts on Purchasing a Leftover 2016 Empulse TT
« on: June 07, 2017, 09:38:45 PM »

So I'm really new to this EMC thing, and started my search at the local Zero dealership.  The DSR caught my eye, but optioned the way I want it is going to make it over $20K out the door.

I then found the Empulse TT.  With Victory ceasing operations, dealers are offering what's left of their inventory at huge discounts.  A quick search of Cycle Trader shows there are still several of these floating around out there.  Some with asking prices as low as $6700 !!! :o

Seems to me that any EMC I buy is going to drop in value fast.  They appear to follow a depreciation curve more a kin to a laptop than a motorcycle.  The technology is just moving so fast right now.  Based on that, It would behoove me to purchase a unit as cheaply as possible, and Victory closing it's doors presents a very unique opportunity.

So I've come to the knowledge commonwealth to get feedback on the idea of purchasing one of these leftover 2016 models.

Thanks for any and all feedback.

Bill
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Richard230

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Re: Thoughts on Purchasing a Leftover 2016 Empulse TT
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2017, 03:49:00 AM »

Be sure to check out this forum for the best info regarding the Brammo/Victory Empulse models. They are nice bikes, but getting service, repairs and parts is not going to be easy: http://brammoforum.com/index.php
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Richard's motorcycle collection:  2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2005 Triumph T-100 Bonneville, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

Ashveratu

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Re: Thoughts on Purchasing a Leftover 2016 Empulse TT
« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2017, 10:40:57 AM »

I have been really tempted to buy a Victory Empulse even though I already own a Brammo Empulse. I have put over 5k miles on her with no issues. I am starting to see some battery degradation (about 4% lost), but my bike is 2014.

I say go for it. If you have a garage where you can plug in and charge overnight, it is totally worth it. Keep in mind that the Empulse does requite a bit of maintenance that Zeros do not. It has a gear box that requires oil changes and a chain to maintain.
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2014 Brammo Empulse in Yellow

2013 Zero S 11.4 - Black *Returned to Zero for full refund*

frodus

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Re: Thoughts on Purchasing a Leftover 2016 Empulse TT
« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2017, 09:17:10 PM »

I have a 2013 Empulse (#24), and it's largely unchanged. There were improvements on BMS and the computer inside, and some refinement of the look of the bike.

I've got ~4k on the bike. I've had only one issue, a small seal that wasn't seated on the transmission that stopped leaking itself. I've changed oil once on it, and it took 15 minutes. Other than a couple of chain adjustments and oil, I've done very little. I've only had an error when I went too low on my SOC and the BMS kicked off the bike. Took to the dealer once or twice for a couple checks (Mine was one of 5 that needed a check on some controller cables) as well as a flash of firmware.

I love the bike, it's pretty refined, and good quality parts, good range (TT's have slightly more). It always turns heads and never let me down.

Doug S

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Re: Thoughts on Purchasing a Leftover 2016 Empulse TT
« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2017, 10:51:28 PM »

I want to be really careful how I say this, since I bear no ill will at all to Brammo/Victory. But I think it's important to remember that just because something's cheap, that doesn't necessarily make it a bargain.

I'm the first one to admit I'm a Zero guy, I just prefer their design philosophy. I don't like carrying around a gearbox that I don't think adds much to the experience, that requires maintenance and someday repairs, when it's easy to design an electric drivetrain that gives plenty of torque at low speeds and adequate power at high speeds, without a gearbox. Same with water cooling...that's a lot of leaking/flushing/maintenance/weight that us Zero riders avoid completely.

But that's just my preference and design sensibilities. Brammo/Victory is a perfectly legitimate way to go, and I'm not going to try to tell people who prefer that route that they're wrong.

It does seem like there's another monkey wrench in the system now, with it being discontinued. The reason the price has dropped significantly is that people are worried, probably rightly so, about being able to get service or even just parts for the bike when/if it becomes necessary. What if the radiator develops a leak? Is it copper and easily repaired, or (more likely these days) aluminum and plastic and basically disposable? Maybe you can find another one five years from now, maybe not. Not that the bikes aren't worth having now, but the prices are dropping because the perceived value is dropping, based on that uncertainty.

Again, I'm not trying to preach to the unconverted. Just keep your eyes open and know what you're getting into. You have to make your own decisions on how you spend your hard-earned cash.
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There's no better alarm clock than sunlight on asphalt.

MrDude_1

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Re: Thoughts on Purchasing a Leftover 2016 Empulse TT
« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2017, 11:57:21 PM »

I want to be really careful how I say this, since I bear no ill will at all to Brammo/Victory. But I think it's important to remember that just because something's cheap, that doesn't necessarily make it a bargain.

I'm the first one to admit I'm a Zero guy, I just prefer their design philosophy. I don't like carrying around a gearbox that I don't think adds much to the experience, that requires maintenance and someday repairs, when it's easy to design an electric drivetrain that gives plenty of torque at low speeds and adequate power at high speeds, without a gearbox. Same with water cooling...that's a lot of leaking/flushing/maintenance/weight that us Zero riders avoid completely.

But that's just my preference and design sensibilities. Brammo/Victory is a perfectly legitimate way to go, and I'm not going to try to tell people who prefer that route that they're wrong.

It does seem like there's another monkey wrench in the system now, with it being discontinued. The reason the price has dropped significantly is that people are worried, probably rightly so, about being able to get service or even just parts for the bike when/if it becomes necessary. What if the radiator develops a leak? Is it copper and easily repaired, or (more likely these days) aluminum and plastic and basically disposable? Maybe you can find another one five years from now, maybe not. Not that the bikes aren't worth having now, but the prices are dropping because the perceived value is dropping, based on that uncertainty.

Again, I'm not trying to preach to the unconverted. Just keep your eyes open and know what you're getting into. You have to make your own decisions on how you spend your hard-earned cash.

while I agree that parts and support are going to be an issue, the irony in your comments is that you mentioned two components that are both unlikely to break and easy to maintain... while ignoring the other electronics that zeros also have. THOSE are likely to be the game-over-if-they-fail parts... things like the BMS, controller, and tracing intermittent issues.
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Ashveratu

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Re: Thoughts on Purchasing a Leftover 2016 Empulse TT
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2017, 05:45:18 AM »

I had a 2013 Zero S for a couple years and it spent over half of that time in the shop and only acquired 1.2k miles. Now I know I am just just one of the unlucky few, but it happened and drove me to try the Empulse which has been perfect so far (now that I have said that, it will most likely go into a meltdown now...).

The Empulse is a very refined bike. Yes the gearbox is unnecessary and dealing with a chain can be a chore, but these are things the common motorcyclist is used/accustomed to. Truth be told, they are what made me try a Zero first. But like I said, the Empulse has so far been reliable. I think I will check the Victory dealer near me to see if have any around still.....
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2014 Brammo Empulse in Yellow

2013 Zero S 11.4 - Black *Returned to Zero for full refund*

Djgipp

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Re: Thoughts on Purchasing a Leftover 2016 Empulse TT
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2017, 07:06:45 AM »

Hello!

I have both a Zero S and a Brammo Empulse, and have ridden many others so I thought you may appreciate some reflections:

 - The Brammo Empulse (or Victory TT) is a Real Motorcycle(tm). It is louder, faster (if you use the gearbox, yes it is faster), heaver, and it has the best handling you will find on any bike anywhere near the current price range. Yes, you do have some minor gearhead type activities to perform, but nothing like a piston based machine. Not even close to real maintenance is required. I do prefer the fatter rear tire of the original Empulse vs the TT version. Both are fine. This bike will be a LOT noisier in practice than you expect from an electric. There is a substantial amount of gear lash, which you will get used to. It will become part of the character of your riding. The Empulse sounds like a Speeder Bike from Endor. Very close to that. Other than that it will feel like a gas bike, so much so that your foot and left hand will twitch which they don't need to. Do not feather the clutch. ever. Feather the throttle instead.

- Zeros are silent. Completely, compared to the Empulse. Switching between the two you will notice the handling differences immediately. I LIKE the Zero handling, but it is different. You may feel you are pitching over the front when you are actually not. It is a real hoot to hoon about the hood on a lightweight Zero (older sr or the moto). The heavier Zero's are a little more cumbersome. I prefer the Empulse to modern stock Zero's. If you are that heavy, just get the gearbox and integrated J plug charger with the Empulse already. I will keep the older Zero as there's something special about literally floating through your favorite streets. There's nothing like it. You will feel it is a different thing, and somehow you will not try and shift. I would however, ride one of Harlan's custom Zero's (Hollywood Electrics). He has some very good mojo going on down there that compete with the Empulse in terms of looks/feel and handling. Check it out.

Hope this helps.

DJ
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ultratoad

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Empulse TT meets Mini Cooper S
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2017, 02:23:21 AM »

The other day I was riding my Empulse TT up Hwy 9 to the Saratoga Gap at Hwy 35.  If you ride in Northern California, you know where I am talking about.  Well, on the way up the hill in the twisties I caught a Mini S.  The guy was moving along, so I decided to just hang and not pass.  Mini guy decided he was going to book, rather than yield.  No problem.  I just hung onto his wake and was quite content.  Ultimately, Mini guy made a driving error and decided to yield.  At the top of the mountain I pulled into the Gap parking lot, parked and removed my helmet.  Moments later Mini guy drove in and parked as well.  He (youngster) approached me and started laughing!  He said “I have never been past by an old guy (true) on a toaster before!”  I had to laugh as well—do to his verbiage and accuracy of comment.  We had a chat about driving in the hills and ultimately went our own ways.  So, why am I writing this?  The Empulse TT is a huge kick in the ass to ride in the hills and will stay with almost anything.  I personally think that Polaris made a huge mistake dumping Victory and the Empulse TT.  Oh, and as a direct result of my encounter—the Empulse TT now has an official name—she is affectionately referred to as “Toaster.”
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