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Author Topic: Turn signal malfunction  (Read 498 times)

grandpa

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Turn signal malfunction
« on: June 03, 2017, 02:44:08 PM »

Hello,

Have you already experienced a problem with the turn signal switch ?

Sometimes, my turn signal switch is ON, but no blink. I have to reset it and switch on again to have the turn signal. Does not occurs all the time, maybe 1 time by 1000km...

Another issue is that if i try to set turn signal switch and hazard signal switch ON, there is high chance of all turn lights go off
For example, i switch on the left light. It works. Then, i switch on the hazard signal => no more blinking light.
AND => no more effect of the turn signal switch or hazard signal switch. I can switch on left or right : no light !

I have to reset the turn signal switch (which is not the first idea when no turn signal is on...)

Occurs at least on all 2016 models (said my dealer).

I consider that as a very dangerous behavior. I dont have the time to stop watching the road to check if my turn signal is active or bug...

Contacted my dealer, which contacted ZERO. They are aware of that. They dont care.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2017, 03:15:06 PM by grandpa »
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Shadow

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Re: Blinking switch malfunction
« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2017, 01:16:40 AM »

Yes, I've mentioned this to some people at Zero, and I heard casually that yeah they'd seen it once or twice in testing but couldn't figure out what the cause of it is. There are some other reports on EMF here about this problem. Always it is the combination of 4-way Hazards switch and using a turn signal. The work-around is to cancel the hazards, and cancel the turn signal.

More importantly if we want to address this you can find a procedure that triggers this problem. If there is a way to reliably trigger this bad behavior, let us know!
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grandpa

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Re: Blinking switch malfunction
« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2017, 01:36:58 AM »

not a 100% procedure, but it's very easy to reproduce ! (at least for the warning + blinker bug)

I will do a video...
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BrianTRice

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Re: Blinking switch malfunction
« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2017, 12:54:36 AM »

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grandpa

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Re: Blinking switch malfunction
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2017, 02:01:48 AM »

thank you for tracking in wiki.
Quote
When it occurs, it always seems to start with hazard light usage
But there is a mistake. It doesnt occurs only when hazard and turn switch are involved in same time.
It can occurs with only turn signal activated.

I just said that it's easier to reproduce with using both.
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BrianTRice

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Re: Blinking switch malfunction
« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2017, 02:58:41 AM »

thank you for tracking in wiki.
Quote
When it occurs, it always seems to start with hazard light usage
But there is a mistake. It doesnt occurs only when hazard and turn switch are involved in same time.
It can occurs with only turn signal activated.

I just said that it's easier to reproduce with using both.

I've changed the wording to fit your request, but your post was not clear, so my initial write-up was more conservative.

The terms "blinking switch" and "warning switch" were confusing, because "turn signal switch" and "hazard light switch" are the common terms, and you then decided to add "They dont care" about Zero, which is not a factual finding and doesn't explain anything but tries to ascribe a negative attitude.

This is partly why I link to the forums from the wiki; sometimes I can't tell what's being reported clearly and have to just include someone's report as some kind of evidence of a possible problem. People writing confusing things on forums is why I work on the wiki; if we had to rely on how hundreds of people wrote about problems, all we'd be reading is words of frustration written in haste.
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clay.leihy

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Re: Blinking switch malfunction
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2017, 05:47:26 AM »

During a massive thunder/hail/rain storm I could hear my flasher ticking when the switch was off, but the lights weren't blinking. Obviously something got wet that shouldn't have.

I still miss the PC800s auto cancelling signals. (Logic system using speed, distance, time and steering angle.)
Hey wait a minute, there's a thread for that...

Sent from my Z981 using Tapatalk
« Last Edit: June 06, 2017, 05:51:03 AM by clay.leihy »
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Killroy

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Re: Blinking switch malfunction
« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2017, 09:44:04 AM »

I noticed this problem too.
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grandpa

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Re: Blinking switch malfunction
« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2017, 03:09:30 PM »

Sorry, You are right, i'm a really bad english speaker :(
Not easy to find the correct english word for vehicle part... I've changed my first post according to your comments

I contacted my dealer when i found this security problem. He firsty said that it's not normal and that they will change the switch (covered by warranty).
They contacted Zero EU. Zero EU replied to my dealer that it's a known issue, and that they dont plan to fix it.

I also emailed Zero to explain the issue, never got any answer, except the auto-reply message...

That's why i say : they dont care.

« Last Edit: June 06, 2017, 03:16:20 PM by grandpa »
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ESokoloff

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Re: Turn signal malfunction
« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2017, 04:51:01 AM »

Hello,

Have you already experienced a problem with the turn signal switch ?

Sometimes, my turn signal switch is ON, but no blink. I have to reset it and switch on again to have the turn signal. Does not occurs all the time, maybe 1 time by 1000km...

Another issue is that if i try to set turn signal switch and hazard signal switch ON, there is high chance of all turn lights go off
For example, i switch on the left light. It works. Then, i switch on the hazard signal => no more blinking light.
AND => no more effect of the turn signal switch or hazard signal switch. I can switch on left or right : no light !

I have to reset the turn signal switch (which is not the first idea when no turn signal is on...)

Occurs at least on all 2016 models (said my dealer).

I consider that as a very dangerous behavior. I dont have the time to stop watching the road to check if my turn signal is active or bug...

Contacted my dealer, which contacted ZERO. They are aware of that. They dont care.

I just (now) tested my 16 DSR & find that I can replicate your issue by timing when I hit the 4-way flasher button. 
With one of the signals engaged (either Left or Right) if you hit the flasher button when the dash indicator is eliminated, the circuit will lock out every time & can only be reset with a push to the cancel button.
If you time it so you engage the flasher button when the Indicator is not eliminated, the circuit will work normally every time.

Hopefully rarely will you need to hit the flashers while a turn Indicator is ingaged but if you do, cancel the turn signal before you hit the flasher button (or you stand a 50% chance of locking up the circuit. 
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Re: Turn signal malfunction
« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2017, 06:30:05 AM »

Good detective work.   Would an Electrical Engineer care to take this further and determine why this is happening?
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grandpa

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Re: Turn signal malfunction
« Reply #11 on: June 08, 2017, 07:54:31 AM »

Thank you for your detailed explaination, i had no time yet to do a video

Hopefully rarely will you need to hit the flashers while a turn Indicator is ingaged but if you do, cancel the turn signal before you hit the flasher button (or you stand a 50% chance of locking up the circuit.

Unfortunately, it depend of your country. In my country it's a very common behavior, at least in major cities.

Due to very high traffic jam, on highway, all motorcycles go BETWEEN the 2 last ways, like this :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3DdB1HlSaE

To be more visible, we all use the hazard signal (at least motorcycle that have it...). And... to go between the ways, we use turn signal...
So, exactly the conditions to have the problem.

With my previous motorcycle, i used turn signal to go between ways, and when in place, i just pushed the hazard signal and forget it. I need all my mind to be focused on the other vehicles !

Since i have my zero, i need to take care to shut of the turn signal, then switch on the hazard signal... at a moment where i need all my mind for other thing... i also have to stop watching the road 1 second to check that lights are well blinking. Many things can occurs in 1 second in this position :(
« Last Edit: June 08, 2017, 07:59:00 AM by grandpa »
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BrianTRice

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Re: Turn signal malfunction
« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2017, 08:11:08 AM »

Nice. Any objection to this way of writing up the problem now?
http://zeromanual.com/index.php/Common_Problems#Hazard_Lights_Interfere_With_Turn_Signals

I'll play with the condition on my DSR later and see whether I can dig anything up. I'm guessing there's a combination of CAN messages and timing at play, not that there's anything I know to do about it.
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ESokoloff

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Re: Turn signal malfunction
« Reply #13 on: June 08, 2017, 09:02:30 AM »

Nice. Any objection to this way of writing up the problem now?
http://zeromanual.com/index.php/Common_Problems#Hazard_Lights_Interfere_With_Turn_Signals



Thanks,
Really pleased that I can give back as I've got plenty of questions yet to ask about these machines.

Out of respect for those that might/do use the flashers in traffic situations, 
Quote
Unfortunately, it depend of your country. In my country it's a very common behavior, at least in major cities.

This .....
Quote
Hopefully rarely will you need to use the hazard indicators while a turn indicator is engaged.
sould be omitted.

I split/filter here in California but don't use my flashers. 
Prior to the Zero, I rode a BMW1150RT that had PLENTY of forward lighting.
Hi beam modulater, fork mounted Motolights, turn signal running lights, hid low beam, & amber fog lights.

I feel a bit naked on the Zero...... must add lights.
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Eric
2016 Zero DSR

ESokoloff

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Re: Turn signal malfunction
« Reply #14 on: June 08, 2017, 09:06:58 AM »

Good detective work.   Would an Electrical Engineer care to take this further and determine why this is happening?

Well, if this were an electro/mechanical system I would gather it's an interference &/or back feed between two relays.

If this is a Canbus system..... ya got me, it's FM (freaking Magic).
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Eric
2016 Zero DSR
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