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Author Topic: Email From Zero: Updated Firmware and Charging Recommendations  (Read 7674 times)

Shadow

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Re: Email From Zero: Updated Firmware and Charging Recommendations
« Reply #30 on: May 09, 2017, 11:57:44 PM »

Okay. I just made an appointment the soonest my local dealership can get me in for the firmware upgrade is 14th June. Yikes.

*Update* appointment pushed closer to Wednesday next week (17th-May).  They want to offer the firmware upgrade while I get my tires changed, and the tire change is free if I take the wheels off, but they don't want me to take the wheels off in their parking lot. So... I guess I'll stop in and see what time they want that firmware upgrade done, and when that's done run across the parking lot to dismantle my bike? Ha ha.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2017, 02:09:00 AM by Shadow »
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mrwilsn

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Re: Email From Zero: Updated Firmware and Charging Recommendations
« Reply #31 on: May 10, 2017, 04:26:49 AM »

https://www.amazon.com/WiOn-50055-Indoor-Monitor-Wireless/dp/B00ZYLUBJU

I'm considering picking up this wireless power switch.  Its got a free app (hopeful not bloatware) that allows remote control of the outlet switch.  I'm hoping it has an auto off switch if the power draw drops to nil.  Otherwise I could just set the timer for 8 hours to make sure the bike charges and then auto shuts off so I don't have to remember to pull the stupid plug at night.  I'm really surprised with all the tech that goes into the Zero, that they didn't integrate an auto disconnect in the BMS or onboard charger.  Hell, my Dell laptop has battery life management software that automatically charges/discharges the battery after it gets to down to 90% and back up to 100%.

The BMS disconnects everything when you have a full charge.  Once you get a full charge the BMS will open the contactor.  At that point the bike will still pull about 1-2 watt from the wall but the charger is off the power draw is for bike electronics to monitor your bike.

Your Zero will do the same thing as your laptop.  It will charge to 100% and then disconnect.  If charge falls to 90% from sitting for a long period of time unused then the BMS will close the contactor and start charging process.  This loop will continue indefinitely for as long as the bike remains plugged in.  If you come out to your bike and charge is between 90% and 100% and the charger is off then unplug for 1 minute and plug back in.  The BMS will start charging process and top the bike off to 100%.
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2014ZeroSR

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Re: Email From Zero: Updated Firmware and Charging Recommendations
« Reply #32 on: May 10, 2017, 06:19:59 AM »

Recommended Firmware updates and 'NO' other services - Big recommendation, call the dealership first and ensure they will not charge you, the owner, before arriving for the update. If they persist in saying you, the owner, is responsible, please stand your ground. If need be, contact Zero yourself and Zero will school the dealership as they did for me.

Background:
[1] I called both dealerships again this morning for clarification. Revolution Moto said they would call Zero because they were not aware of the Zero’s current policy. The lady was very nice.

San Jose BMW service department, on the other hand, was very adamant to the point of being rude and wanting to argue that I would be responsible. I stood my ground. Finally, the male rep said they would call Zero and get back with me.

[2] I called Zero myself. Lydia answered. I’ve spoken with her before and she’s always been helpful. I was placed on hold.

[3] Nicklaus chimed in and reaffirmed Zero would be responsible for the life of the bike. He mentioned, sometimes dealerships perform other services, so be sure, very sure, what’s being agreed to. I have spoken to Nicklaus a few times before - he’s always been extremely helpful.

[4] Revolution Moto did call me- Yep, there will be no charge ($$).

[5] San Jose BMW never called me with an update like they promised, so I called them not long ago. They also know now it’s Zero’s responsibility. My take on San Jose BMW is that they’re like SF Moto for warranty issues -because- they’ll hold your bike hostage until you agree to other profitable services. Yep, SF Moto did that to me about 2 years ago. A call to Zero fixed it - I never did Thank Nicklaus for handling that issue.
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mrwilsn

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Re: Email From Zero: Updated Firmware and Charging Recommendations
« Reply #33 on: May 10, 2017, 06:42:45 AM »

Recommended Firmware updates and 'NO' other services - Big recommendation, call the dealership first and ensure they will not charge you, the owner, before arriving for the update. If they persist in saying you, the owner, is responsible, please stand your ground. If need be, contact Zero yourself and Zero will school the dealership as they did for me.

Background:
[1] I called both dealerships again this morning for clarification. Revolution Moto said they would call Zero because they were not aware of the Zero’s current policy. The lady was very nice.

San Jose BMW service department, on the other hand, was very adamant to the point of being rude and wanting to argue that I would be responsible. I stood my ground. Finally, the male rep said they would call Zero and get back with me.

[2] I called Zero myself. Lydia answered. I’ve spoken with her before and she’s always been helpful. I was placed on hold.

[3] Nicklaus chimed in and reaffirmed Zero would be responsible for the life of the bike. He mentioned, sometimes dealerships perform other services, so be sure, very sure, what’s being agreed to. I have spoken to Nicklaus a few times before - he’s always been extremely helpful.

[4] Revolution Moto did call me- Yep, there will be no charge ($$).

[5] San Jose BMW never called me with an update like they promised, so I called them not long ago. They also know now it’s Zero’s responsibility. My take on San Jose BMW is that they’re like SF Moto for warranty issues -because- they’ll hold your bike hostage until you agree to other profitable services. Yep, SF Moto did that to me about 2 years ago. A call to Zero fixed it - I never did Thank Nicklaus for handling that issue.

Way to keep after em'!!

I wonder if Zero also covers 'motor commissioning and timing' for the life of the bike?
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2014ZeroSR

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Re: Email From Zero: Updated Firmware and Charging Recommendations
« Reply #34 on: May 10, 2017, 08:08:13 AM »

mrwilsn, your question - ".... I wonder if Zero also covers 'motor commissioning and timing' for the life of the bike?"
That's a very good question. Maybe now is the time to find out (somehow) all that Zero covers.
I bet BrianT, if given the info would include it in his excellent unofficial manual (or has he already?).

mrwilsn - your comment about making an informed choice whether to update or not - Thanks mrwilsn
Richard's comment was also quite good - If it ain't broke, don't fix it (well, maybe not those exact words). -Thanks Richard
domingo3 - if not for your info, we may never had the true low down. Thanks again domingo3


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Burton

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Re: Email From Zero: Updated Firmware and Charging Recommendations
« Reply #35 on: May 10, 2017, 10:21:42 AM »

Re commissioning and timing a motor ... you should only have to ever do this if the encoder changes, is damaged, or the motor is replaced, etc. To do this on newer models requires very expensive software and a dongle to gain access to the controller settings required to do it correctly. On MY13's though the cost isn't as bad as you only pay for the dongle and not the software. (we are talking paying $150 vs $1350 to do the same thing here)

Yeah this video is old and fuzzy at times, but it is there to help :D ... I don't plan on doing this again lol

! No longer available

Side note ... I cringe when it is suggested I update my bikes firmware after having a local shop screw it up once ... I ended up doing the update myself after realizing their mistake :/
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MajorMajor

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Re: Email From Zero: Updated Firmware and Charging Recommendations
« Reply #36 on: May 10, 2017, 12:54:20 PM »

What's needed to do the update yourself? Where do you get the firmware?
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JaimeC

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Re: Email From Zero: Updated Firmware and Charging Recommendations
« Reply #37 on: May 10, 2017, 05:07:43 PM »

What's needed to do the update yourself? Where do you get the firmware?

If you have a 2017 all you need is the Smartphone app.  If you have an earlier model?  I think the answer is "Forget it.  Not happening."
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Burton

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Re: Email From Zero: Updated Firmware and Charging Recommendations
« Reply #38 on: May 10, 2017, 06:31:56 PM »

What's needed to do the update yourself? Where do you get the firmware?

If you have a 2017 all you need is the Smartphone app.  If you have an earlier model?  I think the answer is "Forget it.  Not happening."

For MY13 - MY16 you need to have software zero doesn't give away, you also need an ODBII to USB connector and a laptop as well as the current "build" to be put on the bike. If you work for a dealer who sells Zero then you have access to all of these, if you don't then you will find it very hard to get access to these.

It is nice to see Zero migrating to bluetooth upgrades knowing what it takes to install one without it. I wonder if they can transfer this ability retrograde using the same interface or would it be prohibitive to do so.

Another reason to "upgrade" I guess ...
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nevetsyad

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Re: Email From Zero: Updated Firmware and Charging Recommendations
« Reply #39 on: May 10, 2017, 10:55:35 PM »

It's a reason to upgrade to a MY17 bike, I doubt they'll give it away for free to older ones.
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Burton

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Re: Email From Zero: Updated Firmware and Charging Recommendations
« Reply #40 on: May 10, 2017, 11:00:25 PM »

It's a reason to upgrade to a MY17 bike, I doubt they'll give it away for free to older ones.

And for good reason. You can brick your bike if you don't know what you are doing :D
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ZeroPointZero

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Re: Email From Zero: Updated Firmware and Charging Recommendations
« Reply #41 on: May 11, 2017, 12:57:50 AM »

https://www.amazon.com/WiOn-50055-Indoor-Monitor-Wireless/dp/B00ZYLUBJU

I'm considering picking up this wireless power switch.  Its got a free app (hopeful not bloatware) that allows remote control of the outlet switch.  I'm hoping it has an auto off switch if the power draw drops to nil.  Otherwise I could just set the timer for 8 hours to make sure the bike charges and then auto shuts off so I don't have to remember to pull the stupid plug at night.  I'm really surprised with all the tech that goes into the Zero, that they didn't integrate an auto disconnect in the BMS or onboard charger.  Hell, my Dell laptop has battery life management software that automatically charges/discharges the battery after it gets to down to 90% and back up to 100%.

The BMS disconnects everything when you have a full charge.  Once you get a full charge the BMS will open the contactor.  At that point the bike will still pull about 1-2 watt from the wall but the charger is off the power draw is for bike electronics to monitor your bike.

Your Zero will do the same thing as your laptop.  It will charge to 100% and then disconnect.  If charge falls to 90% from sitting for a long period of time unused then the BMS will close the contactor and start charging process.  This loop will continue indefinitely for as long as the bike remains plugged in.  If you come out to your bike and charge is between 90% and 100% and the charger is off then unplug for 1 minute and plug back in.  The BMS will start charging process and top the bike off to 100%.

So why the new direction to disconnect power to the bike after fully charged, with all the precautionary power management features built in?  Is the 1-2 Watt trickle charge really affecting the battery that much?  Also, Ive always left my bike plugged in per the previous spec and Ive never seen it drop below 100% when left plugged in.  However, the inline wattage meter did drop to single digits. 



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mrwilsn

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Re: Email From Zero: Updated Firmware and Charging Recommendations
« Reply #42 on: May 11, 2017, 01:53:14 AM »

https://www.amazon.com/WiOn-50055-Indoor-Monitor-Wireless/dp/B00ZYLUBJU

I'm considering picking up this wireless power switch.  Its got a free app (hopeful not bloatware) that allows remote control of the outlet switch.  I'm hoping it has an auto off switch if the power draw drops to nil.  Otherwise I could just set the timer for 8 hours to make sure the bike charges and then auto shuts off so I don't have to remember to pull the stupid plug at night.  I'm really surprised with all the tech that goes into the Zero, that they didn't integrate an auto disconnect in the BMS or onboard charger.  Hell, my Dell laptop has battery life management software that automatically charges/discharges the battery after it gets to down to 90% and back up to 100%.

The BMS disconnects everything when you have a full charge.  Once you get a full charge the BMS will open the contactor.  At that point the bike will still pull about 1-2 watt from the wall but the charger is off the power draw is for bike electronics to monitor your bike.

Your Zero will do the same thing as your laptop.  It will charge to 100% and then disconnect.  If charge falls to 90% from sitting for a long period of time unused then the BMS will close the contactor and start charging process.  This loop will continue indefinitely for as long as the bike remains plugged in.  If you come out to your bike and charge is between 90% and 100% and the charger is off then unplug for 1 minute and plug back in.  The BMS will start charging process and top the bike off to 100%.

So why the new direction to disconnect power to the bike after fully charged, with all the precautionary power management features built in?  Is the 1-2 Watt trickle charge really affecting the battery that much?  Also, Ive always left my bike plugged in per the previous spec and Ive never seen it drop below 100% when left plugged in.  However, the inline wattage meter did drop to single digits.
The old guidance basically said you should have bike plugged in at all times especially if not riding for an extended period.  The new guidance says you don't have to keep it plugged in and tries to give some guidelines for if you don't plug in to make sure you don't let the bike get below 30% for long periods of time.  They also give some tips for maximizing battery life like keeping the battery at 60% for long term storage (e.g. winter).

If you leave the bike plugged in it will still be covered under warranty. If you don't keep plugged in and keep above 30% for long term storage the battery will be covered under warranty.

I would expect a bike that is left plugged in to stay at 100% if you have old firmware. If you update to the latest firmware and leave plugged in for long periods you could walk out to your bike and it could be as low as 90% though it can take weeks or months to drain that low. If it's below 100% just unplug for a minute then plug back in and you will top off.....but you have to get firmware updated for this feature.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

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ZeroPointZero

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Re: Email From Zero: Updated Firmware and Charging Recommendations
« Reply #43 on: May 11, 2017, 09:03:49 PM »

https://www.amazon.com/WiOn-50055-Indoor-Monitor-Wireless/dp/B00ZYLUBJU

I'm considering picking up this wireless power switch.  Its got a free app (hopeful not bloatware) that allows remote control of the outlet switch.  I'm hoping it has an auto off switch if the power draw drops to nil.  Otherwise I could just set the timer for 8 hours to make sure the bike charges and then auto shuts off so I don't have to remember to pull the stupid plug at night.  I'm really surprised with all the tech that goes into the Zero, that they didn't integrate an auto disconnect in the BMS or onboard charger.  Hell, my Dell laptop has battery life management software that automatically charges/discharges the battery after it gets to down to 90% and back up to 100%.

The BMS disconnects everything when you have a full charge.  Once you get a full charge the BMS will open the contactor.  At that point the bike will still pull about 1-2 watt from the wall but the charger is off the power draw is for bike electronics to monitor your bike.

Your Zero will do the same thing as your laptop.  It will charge to 100% and then disconnect.  If charge falls to 90% from sitting for a long period of time unused then the BMS will close the contactor and start charging process.  This loop will continue indefinitely for as long as the bike remains plugged in.  If you come out to your bike and charge is between 90% and 100% and the charger is off then unplug for 1 minute and plug back in.  The BMS will start charging process and top the bike off to 100%.

So why the new direction to disconnect power to the bike after fully charged, with all the precautionary power management features built in?  Is the 1-2 Watt trickle charge really affecting the battery that much?  Also, Ive always left my bike plugged in per the previous spec and Ive never seen it drop below 100% when left plugged in.  However, the inline wattage meter did drop to single digits.
The old guidance basically said you should have bike plugged in at all times especially if not riding for an extended period.  The new guidance says you don't have to keep it plugged in and tries to give some guidelines for if you don't plug in to make sure you don't let the bike get below 30% for long periods of time.  They also give some tips for maximizing battery life like keeping the battery at 60% for long term storage (e.g. winter).

If you leave the bike plugged in it will still be covered under warranty. If you don't keep plugged in and keep above 30% for long term storage the battery will be covered under warranty.

I would expect a bike that is left plugged in to stay at 100% if you have old firmware. If you update to the latest firmware and leave plugged in for long periods you could walk out to your bike and it could be as low as 90% though it can take weeks or months to drain that low. If it's below 100% just unplug for a minute then plug back in and you will top off.....but you have to get firmware updated for this feature.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

Understood thanks,  other than the last feature you mentioned do you know of any other changes a firmware upgrade would make on the MY2016?  I dont think Ill bother with it, if thats the only feature upgrade.  Id rather the bike stay at 100% so I dont have to mess with unplugging and replugging to top off when Im ready to ride.

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Shadow

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Re: Email From Zero: Updated Firmware and Charging Recommendations
« Reply #44 on: May 12, 2017, 12:16:20 AM »

Understood thanks,  other than the last feature you mentioned do you know of any other changes a firmware upgrade would make on the MY2016?  I dont think Ill bother with it, if thats the only feature upgrade.  Id rather the bike stay at 100% so I dont have to mess with unplugging and replugging to top off when Im ready to ride.
I doubt any of us know more than what was in OP first post on this thread. Have you read it?  If we knew more than this it's unlikely we could comment any further - when employees of Zero Motorcycles answer questions there is a responsibility to not say anything that could lead to a company-ending lawsuit.

I will be receiving a firmware update to my 2016 DSR this coming Wednesday. So, what I encourage everyone to do as I will do, is to document for themselves any differences in firmware. Just before hand-off to the dealership for firmware upgrade, use the Zero App (whichever version works best for you) to send yourself the MBB log and BMS logs (BMS0 is system battery, BMS1 is PowerTank if you have one). Hand off the bike to the dealer, get the firmware upgrade done, and then after the firmware upgrade before you do anything use the preferred version of your app AND then also the latest version of the app to get the MBB and BMS logs.

You will be able to use the Online Parser from the community-made Zero Log Tools, and verify that at least the MBB firmware version has changed.
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