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Author Topic: pedal assisted regeneration?  (Read 519 times)

Aikirob

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pedal assisted regeneration?
« on: April 17, 2017, 06:53:10 PM »

I was looking at velomobiles today to discover that they regenerate electric motor power through peddling and got to thinking if it were possible to connect interconnectable peddles to a vehicle like the zero, so if you ran out of juice you could charge the battery by peddling for a while?
initially I thought of the 150kg weight of the bike being too heavy to peddle uphill, but also thought of making lift to raise the back tire off the ground and charge the bike like your on some sort of exercise bike...
its all just hearsay but its still a very interesting concept to talk about.
I know trying this would quite possibly take a full day or more to charge something like a zero, perhaps someone more technically minded with a bit of engineering experience can enlighten me to how hard it would be to try to pedal a 150kg motorcycle.
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Richard230

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Re: pedal assisted regeneration?
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2017, 08:28:21 PM »

When I was a young boy my dad bought a war-surplus WWII hand-powered generator that was used to power field telephones like you always see in the movies.  I remember hooking the thing up to a 6-volt light bulb and cranking away to get the light to work.  Let me tell you it didn't take very long (about one minute) before I was pooped and decided that human-powered electrical generators were not for me.   ::)
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Richard's motorcycle collection:  2014 14.2 kWh Zero S, 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2005 Triumph T-100 Bonneville, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

MostlyBonkers

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Re: pedal assisted regeneration?
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2017, 09:32:43 PM »

My Zero DS will do about 70 miles with its 10kWh of useable juice. That's about 143 wH per mile.  I think most people would be lucky to produce 143wH during an  hour of peddling.  They may get more indicated, say closer to 200wH, but by the time it is rectified to DC and stored in the battery, I think it's a reasonable estimate. 

So by my reckoning, a human can charge a Zero at a rate of 1mph.

Nice idea, but unless you have lots of kids with too much energy, it's a non starter.
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Erasmo

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Re: pedal assisted regeneration?
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2017, 09:37:48 PM »

You might better push it to the nearest outlet.
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togo

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Re: pedal assisted regeneration?
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2017, 11:55:10 PM »

You might better push it to the nearest outlet.

An top athlete can produce around 400 watts on a climb

"A pro climber like Giant-Alpecin’s Laurens ten Dam (the current holder of the Mont Ventoux KOM on Strava) will probably average about 400 watts on the final climbing section of Stage 12. The average rider would be closer to 195— which means ten Dam would (almost) be able to climb it twice during your trip to the top."

http://www.bicycling.com/racing/tour-de-france/you-versus-a-tour-de-france-pro-cyclist/slide/9

http://www.power2max.com/northamerica/category/watts-up/


Motorcycling, I know I've consumed 100 wh/mile at 45 mph and 150-160 wh/mile at 80 mph.

45 mph, 100 wh/mile, 4500 wh

80 mph, 150 wh/mile, 12000 wh

So, yes, a top cyclist pumping power into a motorcycle ride might gain 1/30th of an 80 mph 1hr run if they had the stamina or 1/11th of a tedious 45mph 1hr hypermiling run.  And that's assuming no resting/coasting on the downhills.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2017, 11:06:19 AM by togo »
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It's like flying, but with more traction.  And none of that Z-axis complexity.

Lost my faith in Zero with my 2011 S, but regained it with my 2014 SR.  Diginow SCv2 changed my SR from a fun ride to primary transport.

2014 Zero SR, accessorized. 2008 Vectrix VX-1 NiMH. 2001 Honda Helix.

clay.leihy

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Re: pedal assisted regeneration?
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2017, 12:17:57 AM »

I think it'd be easier and more efficient to hook the pedals directly to the drivetrain. 😋🚲

Sent from my Z981 using Tapatalk

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Clay
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ctrlburn

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Re: pedal assisted regeneration?
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2017, 11:01:40 AM »

You can read it all....

http://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2011/05/bike-powered-electricity-generators.html

"If you produce 100 watts of power and 42 to 67.5 percent is lost in the conversion, there is only 32.5 to 58 watts left to power the device. If you power the same device mechanically, you deliver 100 watts straight to it. You thus have to pedal 2 to 3 times as hard or as long if you choose to take the intermediate step of generating electricity and storing it in a battery."

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MajorMajor

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Re: pedal assisted regeneration?
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2017, 11:44:05 AM »

That's all true, however, when you're charging a battery you can pedal at your most efficient speed. You can keep a constant, slow pace and even take breaks.

Powering the motorcycle directly isn't feasible.
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togo

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Re: pedal assisted regeneration?
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2017, 09:44:44 AM »

You can read it all....

http://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2011/05/bike-powered-electricity-generators.html

"If you produce 100 watts of power and 42 to 67.5 percent is lost in the conversion, there is only 32.5 to 58 watts left to power the device. If you power the same device mechanically, you deliver 100 watts straight to it. You thus have to pedal 2 to 3 times as hard or as long if you choose to take the intermediate step of generating electricity and storing it in a battery."

It's so minuscule to be almost pointless either way.

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It's like flying, but with more traction.  And none of that Z-axis complexity.

Lost my faith in Zero with my 2011 S, but regained it with my 2014 SR.  Diginow SCv2 changed my SR from a fun ride to primary transport.

2014 Zero SR, accessorized. 2008 Vectrix VX-1 NiMH. 2001 Honda Helix.

KrazyEd

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Re: pedal assisted regeneration?
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2017, 09:58:07 AM »

I believe that people have been looking into something like this from the beginning.
Has never yet been viable. I would have to think that with gearing or something
outrageous that it might be "possible" but not practical. That reminded me of
this video that I had seen previously. Why not just walk or run?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUuwEq98ByM
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Fred

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Re: pedal assisted regeneration?
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2017, 11:54:32 AM »

Or just by an electric bicycle rather than a motorbike if you think pedalling might be an option.
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gyrocyclist

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Re: pedal assisted regeneration?
« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2017, 04:57:51 AM »

it might be "possible" but not practical.
Possible: you could hook up a set of pedals (where to put them?) with a separate mountain bike gearing to the rear wheel. I'd bet a paycheck (since no one's going to attempt this) that you could get up to speed and pedal between 7 and ten mph (11 - 16 kph), assuming you're on perfectly flat ground, and regularly ride a bicycle. But any uphill grade will totally kill you (not literally).

++notPractical
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Killroy

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Re: pedal assisted regeneration?
« Reply #12 on: April 20, 2017, 09:27:22 AM »

+1 not practical.

Riding a bicycle is not that bad.  I do it with no electric assist to get to work.   

The numbers don't work out for a heavy motorcycle and high speed with poor aerodynamics.

But check this goofy dude:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUz1ZeSClNI

Its about as useful as one of these or "upgrading" to LED turn signals.






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Aikirob

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Re: pedal assisted regeneration?
« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2017, 12:46:22 PM »


But check this goofy dude:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUz1ZeSClNI

thanks killroy that was exactly what I was thinking about on that youtube video, I wonder how much extra charge and mileage he gets by doing that.
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Shadow

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Re: pedal assisted regeneration?
« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2017, 08:34:55 PM »


But check this goofy dude:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUz1ZeSClNI

thanks killroy that was exactly what I was thinking about on that youtube video, I wonder how much extra charge and mileage he gets by doing that.
TL;DR Youtube video where inventor fully describes pedals operation
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