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Author Topic: Solved: Full regen instead of 50%  (Read 638 times)

Kocho

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Solved: Full regen instead of 50%
« on: April 10, 2017, 03:32:37 AM »

For a first time today, on my '15 SR I experienced what I think is due to a glitch in the application and or firmware. I had set, a few weeks ago, my custom mode to have 50% throttle regen and 100% brake regen. That has been working until today, I'm pretty sure. Today, after a full charge, at 100% battery SoC I immediately noticed I was getting very strong regeneration, equivalent to what one would get in Eco mode. After the SoC went down a bit, I was still getting full regen at throttle, not 50%, and no additional regen when activating the brake. Sport and Eco modes worked fine - less regen on Sport, full regen on Eco, but my custom felt like Eco in terms of regen (but with full power as set by me).

Any one experienced that? I stopped and changed the throttle regen to 30% in Custom in the app, but am still getting 100% regen. Basically, my custom settings are not being reflected in how the bike regenerates.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2017, 05:07:02 AM by Kocho »
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'15 Zero SR

Kocho

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Re: Full regen instead of 50%
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2017, 04:06:44 AM »

I got it diagnosed - as I was typing my original post above, I figured it could be a stuck brake switch. Close - my front brake keeps the switch activated even if I'm not holding the brake. When I push it out just a smidgen, the switch releases and my custom regen at 50% works as intended.

Now, to figure out how to adjust the hand brake to properly activate the switch ...
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'15 Zero SR

gyrocyclist

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Re: Full regen instead of 50%
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2017, 04:28:46 AM »

I got it diagnosed - as I was typing my original post above, I figured it could be a stuck brake switch. Close - my front brake keeps the switch activated even if I'm not holding the brake. When I push it out just a smidgen, the switch releases and my custom regen at 50% works as intended.

Now, to figure out how to adjust the hand brake to properly activate the switch ...
Great info! Am hoping to see it added to the wiki.

Hm, looking over the table of contents, I'm unsure where it should go. Brian?
Maybe we need a section titled something like: "things that can go wrong when
you're riding your Zero which appear to be related to the electrics/battery/BMS,
and possible causes and remedies."
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Kocho

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Re: Full regen instead of 50%
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2017, 04:38:51 AM »

It was indeed a matter of adjusting the little push rod or pin that activates the brake (not the big knob that adjusts the brake distance from the bars, but the one that goes under the reservoir. It takes 7/64 (it is not metric) hex key to adjust, the brake lever does not need to be removed. All good now.

Besides the brake switch not being activated properly, the other side effect of the poorly adjusted brake pin was a loose and wobbly lever feel. Now it is nice and tight.
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'15 Zero SR

hubert

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Re: Solved: Full regen instead of 50%
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2017, 01:07:20 PM »

And also, you were riding all the time with the tail brake light ON...

By the way, there is a feature I cannot figure why it was implemented that way. When a brake is activated, it is still possible to open the throttle and get motor power "against" the brakes.

AFAIK, in any electric bicycle or scooter, activating a brake unergizes the motor (activating regen or not) regardless of the throttle position. It sounds like logic for safety.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2017, 01:11:10 PM by hubert »
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kashography

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Re: Solved: Full regen instead of 50%
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2017, 01:15:03 PM »

And also, you were riding all the time with the tail brake light ON...

By the way, there is a feature I cannot figure why it was implemented that way. When a brake is activated, it is still possible to open the throttle and get motor power "against" the brakes.

AFAIK, in any electric bicycle or scooter, activating a brake unergizes the motor (activating regen or not) regardless of the throttle position. It sounds like logic for safety.

But how would you do burnouts then?!?  :P  ;D
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hubert

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Re: Solved: Full regen instead of 50%
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2017, 01:26:48 PM »

 ;D ;D

Sorry for the stupid question, you are right, I am not yet a seasoned rider, and somehow lacking a part of their "culture"...
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Skidz

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Re: Solved: Full regen instead of 50%
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2017, 02:33:36 PM »

We in the Netherlands are taught some slow manoeuvres while holding the rear brake and a little power, to keep the bike 'pulling'. This helps slow circles and stuff. And sometimes in offroad situations you also need power and brakes at the same time...
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MajorMajor

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Re: Solved: Full regen instead of 50%
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2017, 05:10:04 PM »

Without a clutch, the rear brake is the only way to modulate power on very careful maneuvers.
The throttle is just a bit too responsive during slow maneuvers.
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Neuer_User

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Re: Solved: Full regen instead of 50%
« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2017, 06:24:49 PM »

Without a clutch, the rear brake is the only way to modulate power on very careful maneuvers.
The throttle is just a bit too responsive during slow maneuvers.
For these maneuvers switch to Eco mode. Works very nicely.

The idea with keeping the bike "pulling" is mainly based on the fact that the rotating motor stabilizes the bike, which is true for ICE bikes, but not for EV. On the EV the motor is always pulling in one or the other direction.
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Kocho

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Re: Solved: Full regen instead of 50%
« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2017, 06:40:39 PM »

Yes, light was on all the time when I checked. Not helpful to traffic behind me...

And also, you were riding all the time with the tail brake light ON...
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'15 Zero SR

Kocho

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Re: Solved: Full regen instead of 50%
« Reply #11 on: April 11, 2017, 10:01:28 AM »

The unofficial Zero manual already has a topic about adjusting the lever. Should have looked there rather than discover how to do it.

http://zeromanual.com/index.php/Unofficial_Service_Manual#Brake_Lever

In a related post there, it also seems to have what I read as a misconception there. Or my bike is different (unlikely). It says:

"By adjusting the front brake lever to contact the switch that triggers the brake light before contacting the hydraulic actuating cylinder".

However, the switch that activates the light/regen works the opposite way: it is normally pressed down by the brake lever at rest (i.e., when I'm not squeezing the lever to stop). When the lever is squeezed, the distance between it and the switch increases and the switch pops out, gets "released" rather then pressed, and "activates" the brake light.   

I think it should say "by adjusting the front brake lever to release the switch that ... ".

To do that one needs to shorten the length of the push pin that activates the pushes the cylinder, so it pushes the brake later than the lever releases the switch. As described in the manual. Unfortunately, the pressure from the master cylinder seems to be the only thing what pushes the lever in a position to keep the switch pressed down and the brake light off. So when that push pin is shortened with the adjustment 7/64 wrench to achieve that, the lever becomes more wobbly and more likely to accidentally trigger regen and the brake light due to vibrations or wind. Also, the brake lever needs to be squeezed closer to the throttle - make sure you don't shorten that push pin so much as to not be able to achieve full braking power due to the lever contacting the throttle too easily. With good brakes that should not happen, but if you have air in the system your front brake might be squishier than normal and you might not be able to pressurize it fully, thus you may not stop as fast as it would be possible otherwise.

http://zeromanual.com/index.php/Common_Modifications#Brake_Lever_Regens_before_Pad_Contact

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'15 Zero SR

BrianTRice

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Re: Solved: Full regen instead of 50%
« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2017, 03:38:58 PM »

The unofficial Zero manual already has a topic about adjusting the lever. Should have looked there rather than discover how to do it.

http://zeromanual.com/index.php/Unofficial_Service_Manual#Brake_Lever

In a related post there, it also seems to have what I read as a misconception there. Or my bike is different (unlikely). It says:



I've taken your entire exposition and reworked the instructions for it. I knew the description of the brake light switch set-screw was wrong but couldn't pinpoint how to say it better. Thanks!
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Kocho

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Re: Solved: Full regen instead of 50%
« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2017, 05:10:26 PM »

Thanks! It was still very helpful!
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'15 Zero SR

anton

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Re: Solved: Full regen instead of 50%
« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2017, 09:06:09 PM »

Here's another story. I got OEM brake lever from dealer and this adjustment screw was very loose. So loose I would have to adjust it twice a week, otherwise it would engage brake light (and regen) all the time. The bottom side of lever looked slightly different than original lever — mechanically and dimension-wise both of levers were exactly the same, but there seemed to be some kind of cover on original one.

When I had my bike at dealer's for unrelated issue, they noticed this too and they said they had this issue with many replacement levers. So they RMA'ed replacement lever that I bought with Zero, got another one (that has some kind of cover on the bottom) and since that replacement was installed, I never had to adjust this screw.
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