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Author Topic: Stranded for the first time, 2014 SR 11.4  (Read 954 times)

Tater McTatums

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Stranded for the first time, 2014 SR 11.4
« on: April 10, 2017, 03:08:55 AM »

I apologize in advance for the length but I feel that its better to be overly descriptive whenever an issue arises

Here's what happened:

A group of motorcycles from my area (all  ICE except for mine) decided to gather for a group ride. Since I hadn't ridden yet this year, I decided that I would join them for the first time. The meet up point was the local mall. Up to this point, my bike had been in the garage plugged in for the winter for probably about 5 months. I unplugged it, set the tire pressures, and set off. Made the 8 mile ride to the mall without issue.

After talking and waiting for others to arrive, we set off for our trip. Not even one mile in, I noticed that I wasn't getting any regen while braking (I primarily ride in custom mode 100% torque, 0% throttle regen, 100% brake regen, top speed 102).  This isn't the first time I've had this happen, a key cycle has always fixed this in the past. So I figured that I would cycle the key quickly while we were stopped at a red light to reset the system. This turned out to be a mistake, or a blessing, depending on how you look at it.

When the bike turned back on, I no longer had any response from the throttle.  The display was still showing 87% battery remaining but i couldn't get it to move. At this point, the warning lamp on the dash began flashing, one blink then a pause then three more flashes and then repeat.  I was now powerless at the red light and it of course turns green. So I coasted it onto the sidewalk and began troubleshooting, my fellow riders pulling off into the distance. (Not that it's pertinent to the story but they did notice my disappearance within a mile or so. I told them to go on without me)

I attempted a few more key cycles, I tried putting the kickstand up and down, even cycling the kill switch, all to no avail. When I switched the dash to display error codes, it read 0001 (which i was unable to locate what this meant).  As a last ditch effort, I removed the cover on the BMS and pressed the reset button. Still nothing.

I eventually decided to push the bike back into the mall and up to the building. (This is the possible blessing I mentioned earlier. I was still next to the mall instead of being stuck in the middle of nowhere on the side of the road)  At this point, I was hoping that a quick plug in to an outlet would bring the throttle back to life.  My newest issue was locating an outlet to use. After searching around and finding nothing, I went into the information/security office to request permission to bring it into the mall to an outlet right next to the door. They refused to allow it inside, but they did direct me to the ONE outlet they knew of outdoors. Of course it was at the other end of the mall from where my bike was because that's my luck. Nonetheless, I pushed it around to the outlet and plugged it in.

After just a few minutes of charging, I decided to try the throttle again. Still no response. So I left the bike turned on and plugged it back it. After a few different combinations of plugging in, unplugging,  and key cycles, success! I got the throttle to respond again. So I put the kickstand down to put the cord away and put my gear back on. When I put the kickstand up to leave, the green "ready to go" light came back on the dash but I had lost throttle and the warning light began flashing again, same pattern as before.

At this point I plugged it back in and began searching this forum to find if this had happened to anyone else. I found a couple other instances where other owners had the same problem. The fix seemed to be charge to 100% and magically it'll work again. Since I wasn't going anywhere anyways and I was already at 88%, I figured I'd give it a shot.

After about 40 minutes, the display read 98%. Now, a new interesting symptom emerged. The charger was now turning on and off, verified by both the dash and the app. The charger would activate for a few seconds, then off for a few seconds,  then back on. During this time, the charging indicator was remained blinking at its normal pace. However, the time to full display would cycle between 12 minutes and zero minutes in sync with when the app showed charge coming in.  I decided that this was close enough and decided to give the throttle another go. Still no response even with 100% battery.

I messed around with plug and key cycle combinations and managed to get the throttle to respond once more. This time I carefully held the bike up and got ready to ride again without using the kickstand. I got on the bike and everything seemed to be working. I immediately got on the highway and rode home as fast as traffic would allow.

The one malfunction I noticed during my ride back was once again the regen. For lack of a better term, it was "stuttering". Basically, it felt like it was activating ABS when regenerative braking. (When I say ABS, I'm equating it to the pulsation felt in the brake pedal when ABS activates in a car) I'm aware that my 2014 is not equipped with ABS, this just the best analogy I can think of to describe the feeling. The power/regen display on the dash confirmed that it was being caused by the regen. It would basically flicker whenever it went until regen. I decided to switch to sport mode since that employs the least amount of regen and managed to make it the rest of the way home.

The bike is now in the garage charging once more. I have no idea what the problem was/is. The only thing i can think of is that the pack is unbalanced. Before I unplugged it at the mall, the app showed a cell balance of around 50 mV even at 98% charge. I'm hoping that this was a one time fluke caused by being in storage for so long.

However, this incident has severely diminished my trust for my motorcycle. My bike only has a little over 3000 miles on it and only sees the outside on warm, dry, sunny days (a rare commodity here in upstate N.Y.). The length of my rides is already limited by the size of the battery since I don't have any form of quick charging, only the onboard charger. Admittedly, the SR has never failed me before today and I bought it brand new. But the 2 ICE motorcycles I owned before this (also purchased new) never left me stranded and I put many more miles on those, even through inclement weather.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

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2014 Zero SR ZF 11.4

Kocho

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Re: Stranded for the first time, 2014 SR 11.4
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2017, 03:23:57 AM »

You have hopefully seen the thread bout the new guidance from Zero about charging, basically, to not keep the bike plugged-in all the time? Not sure if your issue is related or not ... Sorry, can't be of more help, but do look-up that post and avoid keeping the bike plugged in when not needed.
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'15 Zero SR

Tater McTatums

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Re: Stranded for the first time, 2014 SR 11.4
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2017, 03:59:02 AM »

I saw the post about this here and on the Facebook owner's group page. As I understood it, the new recommendations are supposed to increase the longevity of the battery. However,  those recommendations didn't become public until after my bike was already placed into storage for the winter. This was the third winter of owning my zero, following the procedure as outlined in the owner's manual. I had no issues come springtime the other 2 years. Also, since riding it is the only way to discharge it to 60%, something I had no intentions of doing with snow on the roads, I chose to leave it on the charger until I needed it again.

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2014 Zero SR ZF 11.4

Fred

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Re: Stranded for the first time, 2014 SR 11.4
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2017, 04:01:02 AM »

I know someone had stuttering when the brake light switch was coming on with the brake lever rattling slightly. The bike thought the brakes were on so triggered regen.

If your brake light switch was on when stopped would that cause the other issues you experienced? Will the bike try to prevent you pulling away when the thinks the brake is on?
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Tater McTatums

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Re: Stranded for the first time, 2014 SR 11.4
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2017, 04:08:00 AM »

I know the bike will not prevent pulling away with the brake on. I know this because one time I held the front brake and gave it some throttle, mainly to see if I could do a burnout. Turns out the answer was yes and it's very easy to do so.

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2014 Zero SR ZF 11.4

stevenh

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Re: Stranded for the first time, 2014 SR 11.4
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2017, 04:15:37 AM »

I apologize in advance for the length but I feel that its better to be overly descriptive whenever an issue arises

Here's what happened:

A group of motorcycles from my area (all  ICE except for mine) decided to gather for a group ride. Since I hadn't ridden yet this year, I decided that I would join them for the first time. The meet up point was the local mall. Up to this point, my bike had been in the garage plugged in for the winter for probably about 5 months. I unplugged it, set the tire pressures, and set off. Made the 8 mile ride to the mall without issue.

After talking and waiting for others to arrive, we set off for our trip. Not even one mile in, I noticed that I wasn't getting any regen while braking (I primarily ride in custom mode 100% torque, 0% throttle regen, 100% brake regen, top speed 102).  This isn't the first time I've had this happen, a key cycle has always fixed this in the past. So I figured that I would cycle the key quickly while we were stopped at a red light to reset the system. This turned out to be a mistake, or a blessing, depending on how you look at it.

When the bike turned back on, I no longer had any response from the throttle.  The display was still showing 87% battery remaining but i couldn't get it to move. At this point, the warning lamp on the dash began flashing, one blink then a pause then three more flashes and then repeat.  I was now powerless at the red light and it of course turns green. So I coasted it onto the sidewalk and began troubleshooting, my fellow riders pulling off into the distance. (Not that it's pertinent to the story but they did notice my disappearance within a mile or so. I told them to go on without me)

I attempted a few more key cycles, I tried putting the kickstand up and down, even cycling the kill switch, all to no avail. When I switched the dash to display error codes, it read 0001 (which i was unable to locate what this meant).  As a last ditch effort, I removed the cover on the BMS and pressed the reset button. Still nothing.

I eventually decided to push the bike back into the mall and up to the building. (This is the possible blessing I mentioned earlier. I was still next to the mall instead of being stuck in the middle of nowhere on the side of the road)  At this point, I was hoping that a quick plug in to an outlet would bring the throttle back to life.  My newest issue was locating an outlet to use. After searching around and finding nothing, I went into the information/security office to request permission to bring it into the mall to an outlet right next to the door. They refused to allow it inside, but they did direct me to the ONE outlet they knew of outdoors. Of course it was at the other end of the mall from where my bike was because that's my luck. Nonetheless, I pushed it around to the outlet and plugged it in.

After just a few minutes of charging, I decided to try the throttle again. Still no response. So I left the bike turned on and plugged it back it. After a few different combinations of plugging in, unplugging,  and key cycles, success! I got the throttle to respond again. So I put the kickstand down to put the cord away and put my gear back on. When I put the kickstand up to leave, the green "ready to go" light came back on the dash but I had lost throttle and the warning light began flashing again, same pattern as before.

At this point I plugged it back in and began searching this forum to find if this had happened to anyone else. I found a couple other instances where other owners had the same problem. The fix seemed to be charge to 100% and magically it'll work again. Since I wasn't going anywhere anyways and I was already at 88%, I figured I'd give it a shot.

After about 40 minutes, the display read 98%. Now, a new interesting symptom emerged. The charger was now turning on and off, verified by both the dash and the app. The charger would activate for a few seconds, then off for a few seconds,  then back on. During this time, the charging indicator was remained blinking at its normal pace. However, the time to full display would cycle between 12 minutes and zero minutes in sync with when the app showed charge coming in.  I decided that this was close enough and decided to give the throttle another go. Still no response even with 100% battery.

I messed around with plug and key cycle combinations and managed to get the throttle to respond once more. This time I carefully held the bike up and got ready to ride again without using the kickstand. I got on the bike and everything seemed to be working. I immediately got on the highway and rode home as fast as traffic would allow.

The one malfunction I noticed during my ride back was once again the regen. For lack of a better term, it was "stuttering". Basically, it felt like it was activating ABS when regenerative braking. (When I say ABS, I'm equating it to the pulsation felt in the brake pedal when ABS activates in a car) I'm aware that my 2014 is not equipped with ABS, this just the best analogy I can think of to describe the feeling. The power/regen display on the dash confirmed that it was being caused by the regen. It would basically flicker whenever it went until regen. I decided to switch to sport mode since that employs the least amount of regen and managed to make it the rest of the way home.

The bike is now in the garage charging once more. I have no idea what the problem was/is. The only thing i can think of is that the pack is unbalanced. Before I unplugged it at the mall, the app showed a cell balance of around 50 mV even at 98% charge. I'm hoping that this was a one time fluke caused by being in storage for so long.

However, this incident has severely diminished my trust for my motorcycle. My bike only has a little over 3000 miles on it and only sees the outside on warm, dry, sunny days (a rare commodity here in upstate N.Y.). The length of my rides is already limited by the size of the battery since I don't have any form of quick charging, only the onboard charger. Admittedly, the SR has never failed me before today and I bought it brand new. But the 2 ICE motorcycles I owned before this (also purchased new) never left me stranded and I put many more miles on those, even through inclement weather.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

I left my 2016 DSR on the charger until the first of march (when I noticed the new storage instructions).  At that time my cell balance had climbed from 3mv when I put the bike away in late November to 63mv.  I rode it down to <40%SOC twice today after recharging it to above 60%.  Now my balance is at around 41mv at 81% SOC after the second ride.  Hopefully it will fall back down after some additional riding.  Looking at my logs, it looks like it climbed slowly to around 43mv in mid January, then it dropped to 19mv and started to climb again to 63mv in March.  I'm not thrilled that the old instructions let this happen, and that nobody contacted me about the new storage instructions when they came out (dealer, and/or Zero).

Steve

Update (4/11), after two more rides and charges, I'm down to 18mv.  Hopefully in a few more cycles we can get it down to 3-4mv where it belongs.

Steve
« Last Edit: April 12, 2017, 06:42:16 AM by stevenh »
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2016 DSR

Tater McTatums

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Re: Stranded for the first time, 2014 SR 11.4
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2017, 04:22:06 AM »

I'm not thrilled about the lack of communication about the new instructions either. I can't fault the dealer I bought it from though because they went out of business shortly after I  purchased my SR. Would've been nice for Zero to contact owners instead of hiding the instructions on a back page of their website.

As far as looking through the log data, I don't have any way of doing that. All the information I have is based off the live data that was streamed to the app when I had it running earlier.

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2014 Zero SR ZF 11.4

stevenh

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Re: Stranded for the first time, 2014 SR 11.4
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2017, 04:42:34 AM »

You can email logs to zero and then change the email address to yours (from the app).  You can then decode them using the online decoder here: http://home.hasslers.net/zerologparser (provided by cecil_t if you do a search on the forum).  Download both the BMS and Battery logs, the parser can handle both.  Kind of interesting to look at.

Steve
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2016 DSR

rayivers

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Re: Stranded for the first time, 2014 SR 11.4
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2017, 04:53:46 AM »

The only time I ever had trouble with my '14 street FX (v. 36 firmware) was when I set it to 0% throttle/100% brake regen (intense regen 'stuttering', loss of throttle, barely got home, etc.).  I set it to 30%/70%, no problems since.

Ray
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'14 Zero FX 5.7 (now 2.8, MX), '14 Zero FX 2.8 (street), '08 YZ250F, '82 RM250Z, '75 MR175, '74 CR125M (175cc)

Tater McTatums

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Re: Stranded for the first time, 2014 SR 11.4
« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2017, 05:07:01 AM »

I tried to download the logs when I got home but the app seemed to freeze at 67%. I left it there for a few minutes but then i cancelled it when it didn't proceed any farther. Perhaps I'll go out and give it another shot later this evening.

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2014 Zero SR ZF 11.4

Kocho

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Re: Stranded for the first time, 2014 SR 11.4
« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2017, 05:15:04 AM »

I'm pretty sure you need to charge it to 100% *and* let it complete equalization in order to balance the cells. Riding it with partial charge won't do it. You can open the top of the two plugs on the front of the battery to see the lights on the BMS. Check your owners manual for what the light patterns mean and how to tell when equalization is happening and when it is over.

I left my 2016 DSR on the charger until the first of march (when I noticed the new storage instructions).  At that time my cell balance had climbed from 3mv when I put the bike away in late November to 63mv.  I rode it down to <40%SOC twice today after recharging it to above 60%.  Now my balance is at around 41mv at 81% SOC after the second ride.  Hopefully it will fall back down after some additional riding.  Looking at my logs, it looks like it climbed slowly to around 43mv in mid January, then it dropped to 19mv and started to climb again to 63mv in March.  I'm not thrilled that the old instructions let this happen, and that nobody contacted me about the new storage instructions when they came out (dealer, and/or Zero).

Steve
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stevenh

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Re: Stranded for the first time, 2014 SR 11.4
« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2017, 05:31:20 AM »

Thanks.  I'll leave it on the charger overnight to see what's up in the morning.

Steve
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2016 DSR

MajorMajor

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Re: Stranded for the first time, 2014 SR 11.4
« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2017, 11:19:22 AM »

Try downloading only the MBB log, it's much smaller
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MostlyBonkers

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Re: Stranded for the first time, 2014 SR 11.4
« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2017, 11:46:37 AM »

My first thought is to send the logs to Zero which will raise a support ticket.  Then I would contact your dealer, tell them this story and ask them if they can update the firmware.

More than likely, it's a consequence of keeping your bike in storage. It could be as simple as some electrical contracts becoming tarnished or slightly corroded from lack of use. I'd try twisting the throttle with the power off lots of times to give it some use. Put the kickstand up and down, use the brakes. Anything with a switch or contact might just need easing up a bit to get it working properly.  Try spraying a bit of WD40 where it might help too.

Don't leave it plugged in next winter and follow the new advice of leaving it at around 60% charged.

Good luck!
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Fred

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Re: Stranded for the first time, 2014 SR 11.4
« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2017, 12:02:02 PM »



Would've been nice for Zero to contact owners instead of hiding the instructions on a back page of their website.
I got a letter​ from Zero with the new charging instructions.
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