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[rayivers]

Not to muddy the waters here, but if you've bent a sprocket maybe 530 is a better choice for you.  I've had very good luck with Sprocket Specialists.  I wouldn't bother with their Titan Tough hard-anodizing, as with a sprocket this size everything else will wear out first.  My 71T still has @ 70% wear left, an expensive paperweight.

Thanks for the info about the hardened teeth - wish I'd known about it before I bought mine, but a) coming from an MC background I took it for granted that small-sprocket teeth were hardened, and b) owning a Zero, I'm just so frickin delighted when I find anything that's even remotely close to what I need, I've learned not to ask questions. I may have to revise my 750 mi. change-out interval. I'll be using 50BS10HT-1 sprockets from now on, and I think I'll start looking around at Tsubaki and other sprockets too.  Hardened stuff needs to be ground rather than cut - my machinist has a special setup for doing it.

Ray

[Keith]

I found this informative http://www.martinsprocket.com/docs/default-source/catalog-engineering/sprocket-engineering-data.pdf?sfvrsn=6 Page E-167 shows that only part of the teeth are hardened, and then not too hard to avoid brittleness. Everything is a compromise. I'm going with 520 to wear out my custom rear for now, and save the trouble of chain guide mods. I'm running a narrow x-ring chain. Who knows how the wear and performance of a 530 non o-ring would compare. I ride in very nasty conditions, appalachian mountains, former mining areas, mud, rocks, water, crashes, big fun! And because it seems to work well, I'm using WD-40 Silicone lube instead of oil based chain lube. It doesn't form an abrasive paste when mixed with mud and the wear seems reasonable. https://www.wd40specialist.com/products/silicone-lubricant/

[Keith]

Here's what's left of my stock sprocket, next to a new 11T Martin. I use a lot of regen, set to 100% brake. There is some hook and more wear on the drive side, but a lot of lost metal everywhere, and I can see the regen wear marks.

I took a hard look at going to a 530 chain. Got a quote from Sprocket Specialists for a custom rear and went over the chain dimensions here http://www.didchain.com/PDF/DID_2012usa_final.pdf It almost works. A standard 530 chain is only slightly wider than the narrow x-ring 520, would fit the stock guide, barely. Those chains would wear out quickly off road, but they are not expensive and are easy to replace. The 530 sprockets would last longer. Replacing the front is a pretty big deal so I wanted a longer lasting option. The deal breaker is clearance from the motor shaft to the swingarm. Because the 530 standard BS sprockets are 1.0 inches wide, there just isn't room for the washer and screw head. It might be possible to shift the motor toward the brake pedal, add spacers and modify the brake side mount adjusters. But for now I'll go ahead and machine the Martin down to 520 width.

And I am replacing the swing arm bearings, they are full of mud, no surprise.

[Keith]

Here's some dimension information for those who run chains and might change sprockets.  The stock Zero sprocket does not have quite enough width in the hub slot to hold even the DID 520 VT2 Narrow Enduro Racing X-Ring Chain. It seemed ok while running but the wear shows the chain was cutting into the hub by about 0.03". The stock washer is slightly too large for the 11T Martin, should be 1.53 but is 1.60. The Martin will be wider (longer bore length) than the stock sprocket even after machining to 520 width. The 530 520 difference, 0.343 - 0.227, removes 0.116, leaving 0.884, about 0.04 wider than the stock bore length. The stock sprocket mounted position has a gap at the shaft end under the washer. The motor shaft diameter steps up 0.875 from the end and there is a 0.060 plastic washer between the step and hub. That leaves 0.025 or so gap under the aluminum washer. I had some rust on the shaft end. The modified Martin will increase that gap to about 0.06. The larger set screws in the Martin don't leave enough metal to allow reducing the width on the motor side. According to this method my chain was worn by 60% of allowable, I'm going to replace it https://www.facebook.com/notes/klim/busting-motorcycle-chain-myths/416157056989/ Interesting data there about O-ring friction.

[Keith]

Here's my 50BS11HT 1 Martin machined to 520 width. The groove is wide enough to clear the narrow X-ring chain. Carbide tool was able to do the cutting. Getting ready for 9% more torque! If you don't need gold the KTM chain is much cheaper, I found out too late. Same DID VT2 with 118 links, Zero needs 108. http://www.ktmworld.com/product/78010167118.html

[Keith]

  Test ride with the new 11/65 setup was all I hoped it would be. Front wheel lifts easily with both packs in place, maybe even better than it was with front pack removed. I realized and noticed that the regen braking is also stronger, but that's ok with me, now at 109% brake regen. I guess the speedometer is off too, not that I use it off road.

So maybe the increased motor speed helps with low speed range? I don't know what rpm the efficiency curve peaks, but I bet it is higher than my typical trail pace. I do hear the difference in sound, it seems quieter, of course it is new, but I hear the wind in the spokes more.

More wheelspin? Hard to tell, it's all in the wrist and I've learned to go very easy on the twist compared to my old two stroke. It will now rev limit at a lower wheel speed but that's still way too high for me. I wish I could set custom max speed to maybe 40 mph. Twisting the throttle with no sprocket mounted on the motor showed over 90 mph in less than one second. And I saw the rev limit differently, only really working on the second twist.

I might put the chain guard back on. It would need to be cut the clear the mud flap and I think I will raise it maybe 1/2" off the swing arm to clear the knobs better. But it would keep some of the mud off the chain, the tire throws dirt at the open chain which then carries it right to the front sprocket.

The guy who did my machining said he thought the teeth did not lose any hardness in cutting. Fewer teeth mean it will wear faster but maybe it is harder than the stock sprocket. I bought and modified two 11T's so it will be much easier to do the next replacement.

[acacia1731]

Thanks for the report (and for the pics Ray and Keith).  Sounds like a great setup.

If you ever have another 11T made, I bet you could throw a few extras on ebay and sell them to other off-roaders who aren't ambitious enough to make our own.

[rayivers]

Test ride with the new 11/65 setup was all I hoped it would be.

Cool!  I'm still happy with the 10T as well.

So maybe the increased motor speed helps with low speed range?

I'm getting an additional lap in at all my riding areas, so something good is happening.  I think I use a little less throttle now, though I'm sure that'll change.

I do hear the difference in sound, it seems quieter, of course it is new, but I hear the wind in the spokes more.

My Martin sprocket is much quieter than the Zero one was.  After you mentioned chain width & hub-slot wear, I checked my worn-out 12T and it had lots of wear in the slot.  Now I can feather the throttle while coasting and only hear tire noise.

the tire throws dirt at the open chain which then carries it right to the front sprocket.

On my bike, I've found the top chain run tends to fling carried dirt forward onto the rubber wiring-protector cover, while the bottom run traps & carries it right into the rear sprocket.  That said, it certainly can't hurt to keep dirt off the chain, top and bottom.

Ray

[odedmaz]

Do you guys succeed in removing the front stock sprocket (for belt use) without damaging it?

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

[Keith]

A puller like this is perfect. It fits around the frame and through the swing arm bearing. You might rent one. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Proto-J4212SJB-6-Ton-2-Way-Durable-Proto-Ease-Straight-Narrow-Jaw-Puller-Set/172599020361

[rayivers]

Do you guys succeed in removing the front stock sprocket (for belt use) without damaging it?

My OEM belt pulley had been removed before I bought the bike, but I talked to the guy who did it (and I still have the pulley, which is undamaged).  He said LocTite had been used on everything (bore, shaft, key, setscrews), and it had to be heated really hot with a torch before it would come off.

This is nearly identical to the New Britain P-150-D puller I've used for years, with 100% success so far - apparently it's now considered a 'vintage' tool:



Ray

[Keith]

Here's how I modified and mounted the guard to keep some of the dirt off of my chain and new sprocket. Added 1/2" spacers to the swingarm and cut away a lot of plastic to clear the tire and mudflap. The 120/90x18 Motoz Tractionator Enduro I/T barely fits. I am going to need to retrain my wrist, the front wheel lift has surprised me several times!

[Keith]

Still getting mud going past the guard so I flipped over the piece I cut and pop riveted it back on to fill in the gap. That works really well, even has a flap down between the tire and chain. I gave it a test ride on my muddy trails. 

[odedmaz]

Went through the entire thread again. So much valuable information.

I think I'll go with the recommended 11/65 sprockets to gain some torque.

To save manufacturing hassle, any links to pre-made sprockets?

Thanks.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

[rayivers]

Oded,

I was unable to locate any motorcycle-spec (428, 520, etc.) 1" finished-bore sprockets online, but it's possible I could've missed something.  All the ones I found used industrial chain sizes (40, 50, 60, etc.).

Ray