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Poll

Would you be interested in purchasing a compact lightweight 3.3kW charger for USD700?

Yes, one charger for USD700 sounds great, I want one
- 25 (42.4%)
Yes Yes, I'd take two chargers for USD1250
- 12 (20.3%)
No, I need a charger that is waterproof/dustproof
- 14 (23.7%)
No, I'm happy with my current charging setup
- 4 (6.8%)
No, that price is too high for me
- 1 (1.7%)
No, I just love filling out polls
- 3 (5.1%)

Total Members Voted: 59


Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 14

Author Topic: Compact lightweight up to 8kW fast charger for under USD1600 delivered  (Read 7753 times)

evtricity

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Re: Compact lightweight 3.3kW fast charger for USD700
« Reply #15 on: April 06, 2017, 07:43:15 AM »

I think that we can take a reasonable guess that these are based on two Eltek Flatpack2 rectifiers - as has been posted about here.

The chargers are not based on Eltek Flatpack 2 rectifiers. The chgargers utilise smaller (shorter and narrower) and lighter (800g less per rectifier) with the same maximum output of 2000W per rectifier (max 4kW DC when paired in our single charger) and 96+% efficiency.

I have built chargers with the Eltek Flatpack 2 2000 HE 48V rectifiers but the rectifiers used in our chargers are significantly better. Further advantages include that the Elteks derate at temperatures above 45C versus 65C for these rectifiers. These rectifiers can be permanently AC input controlled to suit your available power, that can't be done with the Elteks.

Lastly, when paired in our charger they provide 116v - i.e. 100% charge on a Zero. The Elteks only get you to 115.2v max - about 95%.
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evtricity

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Re: Compact lightweight 3.3kW fast charger for USD700
« Reply #16 on: April 06, 2017, 07:47:29 AM »

YES!

I would buy this 700USD compact 3.3kW, non-weather proof charger as soon as possible!!

This is a perfect compromise between the useless 1kW zero charger and the too expensive 4.6kW diginow charger (even given its non-weather proof aspect)

And as i'm not an electric skilled person, I'm waiting for a ready to use solution.

Do you provide optional mennekes adaptor? (as these are much more versatile in my area => PARIS)

Glad you're excited. We are too! Fast charging opens up new ways to enjoy your Zero!

Yes, we could provide a Mennekes adaptor
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evtricity

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Re: Compact lightweight 3.3kW fast charger for USD700
« Reply #17 on: April 06, 2017, 07:58:14 AM »

Yes, I'd be interested if I wasn't building my own charging solution already. Just the bare charger I'm building costs 700 Euro's so the price is comparable.
But, as you might have guessed by the currency I'm using, my guess is you are situated in the USA. Importing these would cost about 19%, VAT comes in at 21% so for us European users this might be a bit more expensive...

But I do welcome the initiative, a sub-$1000 4kW charger sounds great!

Congrats on building your own - by the price I'm guessing you're using 2 of the Eltek Flatpack S rectifiers. Very compact rectifiers but not as feature rich as the rectifiers we are using with respect to permanent input current control, higher max voltage, higher de-rating temp and CAN isolation.

We're based in Australia - the proposed price of USD700 includes delivery anywhere in the world.

The price will be the equivalent in Euro - so that would be EU650. I'm not familiar with import duties for different countries. In Australia we have no import duty or VAT for items under AUD1000 = EU700.

If you want to get a second charger to go with the one you're building happy to help!
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Neuer_User

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Re: Compact lightweight 3.3kW fast charger for USD700
« Reply #18 on: April 06, 2017, 10:46:52 AM »

Great initiative. That is what is needed.
I would be highly interested in that, but I just ordered two flatpack S. In case that group buy would not materialize, I will come back and order from you.
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acacia1731

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Re: Compact lightweight 3.3kW fast charger for USD700
« Reply #19 on: April 06, 2017, 09:20:29 PM »

Would this work with the FX?  Getting charge time under 2 hours at a low price could make it good option for weekend warriors who ride off-road and want to charge over lunch using a generator? 
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tamjam

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Re: Compact lightweight 3.3kW fast charger for USD700
« Reply #20 on: April 07, 2017, 02:01:40 AM »

Subscribing.

Def interested in a quick charging solution, but need to learn more about it all first...ideally something that can fit into the "tank" space rather than need to be carried in a top or side case.
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StraydogEOMFD

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Re: Compact lightweight 3.3kW fast charger for USD700
« Reply #21 on: April 07, 2017, 03:19:59 AM »

Would this work with the FX?  Getting charge time under 2 hours at a low price could make it good option for weekend warriors who ride off-road and want to charge over lunch using a generator?

What he said plus what is the output on 120V?  Would be awesome to have the ability to hit the track all day (or close to) like an ICE bike.
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evtricity

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Re: Compact lightweight 3.3kW fast charger for USD700
« Reply #22 on: April 07, 2017, 07:56:18 AM »

Would this work with the FX?  Getting charge time under 2 hours at a low price could make it good option for weekend warriors who ride off-road and want to charge over lunch using a generator?

I'm not as familiar with the FX as the S/SR/DS which is what we have been testing on. Zero supports the use of 4 Delta-Qs (with two batteries) which is 4kW so I see no issue using our single charger with an FX/FXS. I would expect that the FX/FXS probably have a combined charging fuse limit of 50A DC as their two battery setup is half the 4 battery setup that sits in the S/SR/DS monolith battery (which has a 100A DC limit). Our single charger has a max current of under 42A DC and with a 650W charger you'd be around 6A for a combined <48A if there is a 50 fuse on the FX then you'd still be under that with the onboard and our fast charger at max power. We can set the chargers to lower power, if desired, no problem.

Someone who knows the charge limits of the FX feel free to chime in.
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evtricity

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Re: Compact lightweight 3.3kW fast charger for USD700
« Reply #23 on: April 07, 2017, 08:15:51 AM »

Would this work with the FX?  Getting charge time under 2 hours at a low price could make it good option for weekend warriors who ride off-road and want to charge over lunch using a generator?

What he said plus what is the output on 120V?  Would be awesome to have the ability to hit the track all day (or close to) like an ICE bike.

The maximum power from a 120v source (assuming you were to get our single charger with dual AC input sockets (IEC C14) and plug them into two 120V sockets with sufficient capacity on the one circuit/s (>24A AC) or two separate circuits would be:
- 2 x 120v x 12A = 2880W AC @ 95% efficiency (full power efficiency) = 2736W DC

So our single charger would push 2.7kW DC into an FX charging off two 120v sockets.

That would take ~2 hour to charge from empty, down to ~1.7 hours with the onboard running as well. Less time again, if you don't ride it till it stops!
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evtricity

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Re: Compact lightweight 3.3kW fast charger for USD700
« Reply #24 on: April 07, 2017, 08:32:08 AM »

Subscribing.

Def interested in a quick charging solution, but need to learn more about it all first...ideally something that can fit into the "tank" space rather than need to be carried in a top or side case.

Yes, this is the holy grail of fast charging - fitting it all under the tank area and charging at 7-8kW plus your onboard for ~9kW at a reasonable price. Our single charger does fit under the tank and the double charger will likely just fit as well, but requires a power tank bracket to be removed to give you a flat area to work in. I've added two photos to show it's physically possible and to get a better feel for the charger dimensions,

but ...

Given our chargers are not waterproof or dustproof and neither is the tank area, we won't be warrantying the product if the charger has been fitted to the bike itself. It must be carried on the bike in waterproof and dustproof luggage. We'd love to offer a waterproof/dustproof charger but we had to compromise somewhere in order to keep the price down. The chargers are compact and lightweight so you can carry them in a backpack or tank bag without having to go the expense of panniers, top boxes and associated racks.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2017, 09:00:55 AM by evtricity »
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Aikirob

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Re: Compact lightweight 3.3kW fast charger for USD700
« Reply #25 on: April 07, 2017, 01:40:23 PM »

how much for a fellow aussie to get in on this?
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evtricity

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Re: Compact lightweight 3.3kW fast charger for USD700
« Reply #26 on: April 07, 2017, 01:58:52 PM »

Good question aikirob.

Same price globally. In AUD approx $930. While the freight costs are lower,  I need to charge GST for any items sold in Australia which adds an AUD90 cost which overseas buyers don't get charged.

In fact it's cheaper to sell a unit overseas than locally!

Just note that this is only an expression of interest - prices and specs are indicative and not definite. We have more work to do to be able to sell these chargers.
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vaiarii

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Re: Compact lightweight 3.3kW fast charger for USD700
« Reply #27 on: April 07, 2017, 03:25:51 PM »

Does your charger need the onboard charger to run for the contactor?
If so, charging at a domestic socket might be difficult since these are limited to 3.3kW
That's why I would be intersted in mennekes adaptor

Quote
These rectifiers can be permanently AC input controlled to suit your available power
Does that means I would be able to adjust the power it draws if I 'm aware that the circuit I try to use can't provide enough power?
If so, what would be the adjustment process? (I guess something like turning a screw somewhere...)

Quote
when paired in our charger they provide 116v - i.e. 100% charge on a Zero. The Elteks only get you to 115.2v max - about 95%.
I own a 2014 SR, is it concerned by these numbers or are they different?
I also read many time that most people doing DIY chargers kept the last % of charge for the OEM charger (for cell balancing I guess). Have you get any troubles when charging up to 100% with your charger? Would it be possible to keep these last % ?

Does your charger automatically stop when reaching its top % of charge or do I have to stop it "by hand" ? (in other words can I let the charger work alone and take a 2 hour brunch :P without fear)


Quote
I'm not familiar with import duties for different countries
Me neither
I don't even know how this works (should the duties be paid in advance when expeding the paquet from Australia? or when receiving here in France? who should know how much it cost? ...)
But I really whish you charger to be mine in a few time!

Do you have expected date for sale?

« Last Edit: April 07, 2017, 05:11:01 PM by vaiarii »
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evtricity

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Re: Compact lightweight 3.3kW fast charger for USD700
« Reply #28 on: April 07, 2017, 06:36:01 PM »

Great questions, thanks vaiarii - see my answers below in italics.

Does your charger need the onboard charger to run for the contactor?

Answer - no it doesn't require the onboard charger to run to close the contactor

If so, charging at a domestic socket might be difficult since these are limited to 3.3kW
That's why I would be interested in mennekes adaptor

We may offer a Mennekes adaptor in addition to the J1772 adaptor if there is sufficient demand. If there are other vendors who supply Mennekes to 2 x IEC C19 splitter then that would likely work with our chargers as long as the Mennekes stations provided sufficient current to each IEC19 plug.

Quote
These rectifiers can be permanently AC input controlled to suit your available power
Does that means I would be able to adjust the power it draws if I 'm aware that the circuit I try to use can't provide enough power?
If so, what would be the adjustment process? (I guess something like turning a screw somewhere...)

We programme the AC input current limit of the charger via CAN commands. We set the chargers to 15A default for each AC input, but it can be as high as 19A for maximum power. At this time, the charger does not have a physical control (button, lever, knob, screen) that allows you to adjust the output current up or down from the setting we make when we ship the charger. Connectors to the CAN terminals are included on our prototype chargers, however it is unlikely that we will give users the commands for them to make changes themselves because of the risk of an unfamiliar person making a mistake and rendering the unit inoperable.

Quote
when paired in our charger they provide 116v - i.e. 100% charge on a Zero. The Elteks only get you to 115.2v max - about 95%.
I own a 2014 SR, is it concerned by these numbers or are they different?

I also own a 2014 SR and have tested these chargers extensively on my own bike. All Zero motorcycles from 2013 upward have the same max pack voltage.

I also read many time that most people doing DIY chargers kept the last % of charge for the OEM charger (for cell balancing I guess). Have you get any troubles when charging up to 100% with your charger? Would it be possible to keep these last % ?

As a CC CV charger, the charger starts reducing current around 114-115V as it nears it's maximum voltage. The last 1v from 115-116 takes a number of minutes to push into the battery as the current drops. So, in effect, the chargers fast charge to around 114-115V and then ramp down as they push in the last ~1-2V. We are able to turn the maximum voltage lower if you wish eg. to 114-115v. With that setup you will have to use another charger (eg. onboard) to get to 100% charge as the chargers will no longer be able to do that.

Does your charger automatically stop when reaching its top % of charge or do I have to stop it "by hand" ? (in other words can I let the charger work alone and take a 2 hour brunch :P without fear)

Yes, the chargers stop pushing current when they reach 100% charge ~116V, so you can leave them unmonitored. However the chargers don't power off entirely - the fans run whenever they are connected to a live AC socket. When you have finished fast charging, you should turn them off in a reasonable timeframe - i.e. minutes rather than hours. They are not like a slow-charger that you would leave on all night.

Quote
I'm not familiar with import duties for different countries
Me neither
I don't even know how this works (should the duties be paid in advance when expeding the paquet from Australia? or when receiving here in France? who should know how much it cost? ...)
But I really whish you charger to be mine in a few time!

We hope to get enough interest to sell you one. However, all import duties, VAT etc will be the responsibility of the buyer. Please research them before buying.

Do you have expected date for sale?

No, we don't have an expected sale date. We're asking for expressions of interest because there is a significant amount of cost, effort and risk to package and sell chargers such as these as can be seen with others on this forum who have being doing it over the last 1-2 years with mixed success.

If there isn't sufficient interest for the chargers we are offering, we won't sell them. The chargers will suit a certain type of Zero owner but not all so we need to understand how many people that may be - 10, 50, 100?. As these are a low cost charger, there is little to no profit in these chargers - we are doing this because we want more Zero riders enjoying their bikes. Fast charging rocks but the other charger options suitable for Zeros are either too expensive, too heavy, or too large for many Zero owners so we wanted to bring something to market that might work for some of those who haven't taken the plunge into fast charging or want something smaller, lighter and more powerful than what they already have.

We're not an EV charger manufacturer with dozens of employees and a huge R&D budget, however, we have in-depth understanding of Zero motorcycles from over 2 years of racing, performance tuning and fast charging, PCB design skills, along with access to electrical and mechanical engineering knowledge to be able to take commercial DC power equipment and package them into chargers suitable for our Zeros.

The poll has given us a reasonable indication of demand and coupled with interest on facebook and other e-bike sites we will be able to make a decision on whether to proceed in the next week or two.

We will provide an update to this thread by the end of April on whether, and how, we will sell these chargers.

It's been a largely positive response thanks to the kind words from people like yourself.

Thanks again!
[/quote]


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StraydogEOMFD

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Re: Compact lightweight 3.3kW fast charger for USD700
« Reply #29 on: April 08, 2017, 03:19:11 AM »

Would this work with the FX?  Getting charge time under 2 hours at a low price could make it good option for weekend warriors who ride off-road and want to charge over lunch using a generator?

What he said plus what is the output on 120V?  Would be awesome to have the ability to hit the track all day (or close to) like an ICE bike.

The maximum power from a 120v source (assuming you were to get our single charger with dual AC input sockets (IEC C14) and plug them into two 120V sockets with sufficient capacity on the one circuit/s (>24A AC) or two separate circuits would be:
- 2 x 120v x 12A = 2880W AC @ 95% efficiency (full power efficiency) = 2736W DC

So our single charger would push 2.7kW DC into an FX charging off two 120v sockets.

That would take ~2 hour to charge from empty, down to ~1.7 hours with the onboard running as well. Less time again, if you don't ride it till it stops!

Sounds like it would be fantastic for my quick charger use-case which will be trying to keep my FXS going for a full track day.  The good thing is with SM tracks (go kart road race courses) the speeds are lower (avg around 40mph?) so I'd hope that would have less draw per session than on a full road course.  I've got a Quiq charger that I bought when I bought my bike but I've yet to see how it all comes together at the track as I've been waiting for the snow to melt over here in the mid-Atlantic seaboard.  Excited to follow this post for sure.
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