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Author Topic: Unfair Alternative Georgia Fuel Fee  (Read 1677 times)

Killroy

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Re: Unfair Alternative Georgia Fuel Fee
« Reply #15 on: March 13, 2017, 01:17:18 PM »

That is way to much for a EV and way, way to much for a Moto EV. 

I think it is good idea for EVs to pay right sized fee to be fair for other tax payers.  A fair fee to me would be $60-$150 per year based on a average of 12000 miles per year.  I know that is a lot of a miles for a moto, but I don't like the idea of devices that record per mile or some kind of process where you report miles per year.

FYI, Tesla did not get "Billions and Billions". Its good to fact check the difference between a check getting cut to Tesla and a tax discount - the opportunity to pay less taxes - also like owning a EV and not paying fuel taxes (depending on the sate).  The articles about Tesla's billions of subsidies sound they they got cut a check, but someone with a agenda added up Nevada tax discount 20 years into the future if Tesla hired a booming economy amount of people.

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Brammofan

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Re: Unfair Alternative Georgia Fuel Fee
« Reply #16 on: March 13, 2017, 05:47:28 PM »

I'm a co-moderator here and have been seeing the reports on this thread.  I think we'll always encounter folks whose politics don't agree with ours.  When I encounter them I either ignore them or I use it as an opportunity to let them know (politely) that other viewpoints exist.  I have, however, given up trying to convince them that their viewpoint is wrong.  I think Richard230 and other old timers might agree with me that our country has gotten so polarized that no one can be convinced to come to the center.

That said, we do value polite discourse here and have little patience with name-calling and such.  Although one might be tempted to blame liberals for increasing taxes on electrics or call someone ignorant for not understanding the difference between state and federal responsibility for taxes imposed, we should endeavor to take the high road and keep the discussion about the issues, not the people.
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Kenmc_3

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Re: Unfair Alternative Georgia Fuel Fee
« Reply #17 on: March 13, 2017, 07:00:31 PM »

Look up the law and read the details. Missouri has a$75.00 EV tax, but the word motorcycle is not listed in the wording. So I took a copy to the license office and they looked it up to verify my copy. Then I was exempted from the tax. I also wrote the Department of Revenue about the overall fuel usage of motorcycles vs cars and was granted an exemption for future registrations.
My insurance company also jacked up the rates for my FX, so I shopped around for a different company and cut my rates by half.

It is a state's rights issue. No Fed involved here.
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Brammofan

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Re: Unfair Alternative Georgia Fuel Fee
« Reply #18 on: March 13, 2017, 07:34:55 PM »

Hi Ken. I'm in Missouri too and I've never been charged an EV tax. It's nice to know I might get an exemption if it ever happens. Thanks for the info.
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Richard230

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Re: Unfair Alternative Georgia Fuel Fee
« Reply #19 on: March 13, 2017, 08:03:21 PM »

Just to jump off the topic for a moment, I am a moderator on a BMW forum and it has been many years since we have had anyone "flame" someone on the forum.  If someone really wants to blow off steam about politics, religion, or some other potentially controversial topic, the forum has a sub-forum for just such topics.  No limits, just blow your mind there. (You ought to see the thousands of vulgar, sexist and really bad jokes posted in that section.) But that leaves the rest of the forum discussing motorcycles and similar topics quite calmly.  Now the only time I have to delete a post and ban a "person" is on Saturday afternoons when a "bot" from San Francisco starts posting trying to get people to click on a "Live Streaming" TV program or movie. They get banned and their post goes into the "Trash Can" sub-forum.   ;D

Of course, the members of most BMW motorcycle forums do seem to have an average age of somewhere around 70.  So that might have something to do with the lack of emotional and quick responses. Most of us are still trying to find the new ribbon for our typewriters.  ::)
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Richard's motorcycle collection:  2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2020 KTM 390 Duke, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

Low On Cash

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Re: Unfair Alternative Georgia Fuel Fee
« Reply #20 on: March 13, 2017, 08:05:16 PM »

Ok here we go again . . . .

Regretfully guys since the topic has to do with Tax it does reflect on a government decision.
 
Anyhow like all my other attacked topics - rather than discuss the unwarranted tax at hand a few of my admires have followed me here and turned it into a Political combat topic - nice job guys!

Also after a awful private message from Shadow with terrible F word profanity he had the nerve to complain about my title word of Asse so I changed it to Pants to make him feel better

 What's wrong with this picture!   
« Last Edit: March 13, 2017, 08:12:05 PM by Low On Cash »
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Brammofan

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Re: Unfair Alternative Georgia Fuel Fee
« Reply #21 on: March 13, 2017, 08:54:55 PM »

1. No one said that the topic wasn't a "government decision." The point was that it was a state (Georgia) decision, not something controlled by the federal government.

2.  The person who "turned it into a Political combat topic" was you. 
Quote from: Low On Cash
It’s now clear the Obama CAA “Pencil Heads” in Washington must have been using their vast clean air verses road tax intelligence to come up with this goofy math which forces us electric bike owners to pay gas tax for others driving electric cages.
  Attributing the GA tax to the Obama administration was the first shot in the "Political combat" here.  We all agree that the tax seems unfair in the bike vs. car context.  Why go any further than that in your opening post?

3.  If you are getting threatening messages or object to profanity in messages, please block the person and/or report them to the moderator.
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mrwilsn

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Re: Unfair Alternative Georgia Fuel Fee
« Reply #22 on: March 13, 2017, 09:57:15 PM »

Hi Ken. I'm in Missouri too and I've never been charged an EV tax. It's nice to know I might get an exemption if it ever happens. Thanks for the info.

Look up the law and read the details. Missouri has a$75.00 EV tax, but the word motorcycle is not listed in the wording. So I took a copy to the license office and they looked it up to verify my copy. Then I was exempted from the tax. I also wrote the Department of Revenue about the overall fuel usage of motorcycles vs cars and was granted an exemption for future registrations.
My insurance company also jacked up the rates for my FX, so I shopped around for a different company and cut my rates by half.

It is a state's rights issue. No Fed involved here.

Hey guys...I had a very similar experience in Missouri myself....twice.

In 2014 when I bought my 2014 Zero S I went in to get it licensed at the DMV in STL and the woman working there was SOO confused.  She started to do the paperwork and then asked me how many cc....I responded...zero....it's electric.  To which she responded....oh....you don't need to get a license plate for electric bikes.  I asked her if she was sure and she then asked if it could go more than 30mph on flat ground.....I responded....hell yeah it can.  Her brain exploded.  She asked me again what kind of bike it was and started searching for it on the internet and we then had a 15 minute conversation about electric motorcycles with her pulling several other DMV employees into the conversation all of whom were in total shock.  Needless to say it was their first electric motorcycle at that DMV office.

So after all that wears off and she is done telling me how cool my bike is and how much she wishes she could get one she realizes that EV's are supposed to get charged the $75 fuel tax.  At first I grumbled a little bit but was going to accept my fate....then she pulls out this huge sticker which is supposed to go in the windshield.  So I ask....where am I supposed to put that thing??  There is nowhere on a motorcycle to put that thing....it's way to big to put on the license plate and I don't have a windshield.  I'm obviously not going to put it on the tank or other part of the body so....???  She agreed so she starts to look at the law to see what it says about placement for 2 wheel vehicles and she can't find anything.  As she is reading she starts to question if I should even be paying the tax so she tries to call the higher ups in the state capital with no luck in reaching anyone with answers.

She decides to let me go without paying for the sticker and tells me she is going to get in touch with the head guy and get a final answer and then will call me.  The next day I had a message saying I didn't need the sticker since it didn't apply to motorcycles....only "passenger vehicles, buses and large vehicles".  I went back in to the DMV and she finished filling out my paperwork and even wrote a note on it saying she had contacted the boss and I didn't need to pay the fuel tax.

That didn't stop the state from sending me a letter almost a year later saying that I needed to go in to pay the fuel tax or I would be assessed a fine.  I ignored the letter.  Then late last year I needed to go in to get my plates renewed and the guy tells me I need to pay the $75 fuel tax.  After getting the letter the last time I was gonna just pay the tax and keep the sticker in the storage tank so I could produce it if I ever got stopped and got called on it but then decided to politely ask the guy where I was supposed to put it on my bike (I didn't even tell him the story from the previous time).  He tries to look it up and when he can't find anything he asks his supervisor and right away she says "Oh yeah, it doesn't apply to motorcycles".

So there you go....twice the state tried to make me pay the extra $75 but I have gotten out of it both times. :)  To be honest, I think it's reasonably priced but I object to paying it just out of principle....Missouri doesn't have incentives for buying electric....at the very least they shouldn't be adding extra fees for adopting the technology....or....as many others have stated....it should be much lower for a motorcycle.

MO charges based on the size of vehicle but all vehicles are just broken down into classes.  They could just create a class for motorcycles and charge a lower fee (and make the sticker small enough to fit on license plate).  Or they could charge based on the weight of the vehicle or the size of the battery.  The only downside to using the size of the battery is that the battery for a small car like the 1st gen leaf is only a little over twice the size of a ZF13 but weighs much more than double and it's really vehicle weight that has the most impact on roads.  For that reason....if they MUST charge a tax to EV's they should just do it by weight.

P.S. On a side note....I will be at Forest Park on Earth Day (April 22) with Flying Tiger as their Zero SME.  Be sure to stop by and say hello :)  I have been working on modifying my 2017 Zero SR and it will be there on display along with a 2017 Zero S and 2017 Zero DSR.  Flying Tiger is also planning to bring a 2016 FXS assuming it hasn't sold by that time.
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Low On Cash

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Re: Unfair Alternative Georgia Fuel Fee
« Reply #23 on: March 13, 2017, 10:53:45 PM »

Look up the law and read the details. Missouri has a$75.00 EV tax, but the word motorcycle is not listed in the wording. So I took a copy to the license office and they looked it up to verify my copy. Then I was exempted from the tax. I also wrote the Department of Revenue about the overall fuel usage of motorcycles vs cars and was granted an exemption for future registrations.
My insurance company also jacked up the rates for my FX, so I shopped around for a different company and cut my rates by half.

It is a state's rights issue. No Fed involved here.

Ken thanks for the reply I'll head down to the tag agency and see if there is an error however I'm not expecting anything since a lot of guys are getting billed as I am..
Regards
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Low On Cash

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Re: Unfair Alternative Georgia Fuel Fee
« Reply #24 on: March 14, 2017, 12:38:14 AM »

Just to jump off the topic for a moment, I am a moderator on a BMW forum and it has been many years since we have had anyone "flame" someone on the forum.  If someone really wants to blow off steam about politics, religion, or some other potentially controversial topic, the forum has a sub-forum for just such topics.  No limits, just blow your mind there. (You ought to see the thousands of vulgar, sexist and really bad jokes posted in that section.) But that leaves the rest of the forum discussing motorcycles and similar topics quite calmly.  Now the only time I have to delete a post and ban a "person" is on Saturday afternoons when a "bot" from San Francisco starts posting trying to get people to click on a "Live Streaming" TV program or movie. They get banned and their post goes into the "Trash Can" sub-forum.   ;D

Of course, the members of most BMW motorcycle forums do seem to have an average age of somewhere around 70.  So that might have something to do with the lack of emotional and quick responses. Most of us are still trying to find the new ribbon for our typewriters.  ::)

Richard many thanks for your reply and your valid thoughts on Forum Administration.

Regretfully, this Zero forum differs from the BMW or in fact any other motorcycle forum on the Internet. On this forum, you are not entitled to voice any opinions that do not coincide with the thoughts or beliefs of a few seniors and a few administrators like Shadow.

Secondly and most important, you are not allowed to mention any beliefs or belong to any Republican party since it does not fit this Forums; Obama / Hilary “Tree Hugging” Agenda. While of course I’m just as interested in clean air and saving the planet as much as anyone, unlike a chosen few here, I have the ability to grasp the fact the Zero motorcycle is not the answer to saving our planet. We all don’t think alike and have different beliefs - remember its Public Forum and we all have the freedom and legal rights to express our feelings even thought they differ from others. Regretfully because of this save the earth agenda, the Zero Forum has lost its “Fun Factor”. 

We all need to chill out and have fun, its just a motorcycle forum

Regards - Mike Mas 


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DPsSRnSD

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Re: Unfair Alternative Georgia Fuel Fee
« Reply #25 on: March 14, 2017, 01:08:17 AM »

I recently renewed my registration and I am happy to report that, under Obama's watch, I did not have to pay an "EV Tax". THANK YOU PRESIDENT OBAMA!
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Richard230

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Re: Unfair Alternative Georgia Fuel Fee
« Reply #26 on: March 14, 2017, 04:18:26 AM »

Coincidentally, this morning there was a five-minute discussion on my local "all news" radio about electric vehicle incentives being dropped or reduced by some states, including California. California sees giving new EV buyers, who can afford a vehicle like a Tesla (which appears to be what everyone seems to think of as a typical EV) a rebate as being not fair to lower-income EV buyers and is now basing state EV rebates based upon the purchaser's yearly income. While this change might not affect electric motorcycles (which apparently most legislators have likely never heard of) what "low income" family can afford to purchase a new EV?  Low income people typically purchase a used Japanese econo-car and if they would buy an electric car, it would likely be a used one like a Leaf, which I believe would not qualify for the rebate. The changes to the CA rebate system seem a little goofy to me and smacks of an attempt at some sort of social engineering.   ???

It would be great if the CA EV registration fee specified cars, with no mention of motorcycles, but I bet they use the catchall word "vehicles" so that they don't miss any electric device that moves and requires a license.   :(
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Richard's motorcycle collection:  2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2020 KTM 390 Duke, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

Low On Cash

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Re: Unfair Alternative Georgia Fuel Fee
« Reply #27 on: March 14, 2017, 04:36:17 AM »

Bottom line guys I think we're all in agreement that electric bike owners like car owners should have to pay their share of road tax,  but that is not what's happening, I'm paying more tax ($200) on my little bike than almost any other electric car owner in the US.

In other words . . . Some rich Californian can drive his big ass heavy 5000 lb Tesla Cage around and pay nothing for gas tax because us redneck bike riders in Georgia and other states are going to pay for his road tax. 

It’s an absolute Joke  . . . Where government once provided financial incentives to people who drive ultra-fuel-efficient cars and bikes with no emissions to help preserve the air - will now penalize them for it.
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Chocula

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Re: Unfair Alternative Georgia Fuel Fee
« Reply #28 on: March 14, 2017, 05:27:48 AM »

I'm paying more tax ($200) on my little bike than almost any other electric car owner in the US.
Thanks for being an "Out and Proud" republican and voting for those fine Georgia state officials that created the laws to help you pay your and all those Tesla owners fair share.  Please have them send a portion of your fee to the California Department of Transportation as to improve the roads those Tesla's are driving on.

It was probably on "Faux" News that it was Obama's fault for not taking away the State of Georgia's right to impose new taxes on its citizens.  They seem pretty "fair and balanced" as long as your only need to hear one side of the story and don't independently fact check anything.
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DPsSRnSD

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Re: Unfair Alternative Georgia Fuel Fee
« Reply #29 on: March 14, 2017, 05:37:42 AM »


In other words . . . Some rich Californian can drive his big ass heavy 5000 lb Tesla Cage around and pay nothing for gas tax because us redneck bike riders in Georgia and other states are going to pay for his road tax. 


You're onto us. Californians became upset because we're a donor state, paying more in Federal income tax than we get back, and decided to pass legislation in each state to directly collect local taxes and transfer them back to California. I don't understand why the local legislators in states like Georgia went along with this, but apparently they did.
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