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[Delnari]

Just picked up my '17 Zero SR from my dealer after being in the shop for 2 weeks.  It got the 2-4 BMS error code and had to be towed to the shop for diagnostics (motor wouldn't run after a full charge).  Took Zero many days to send a update to the dealer with the new code update to fix the issue after they were given the bike downloaded logs.  The dealer passed along that Zero will be releasing an update to all (2017 owners I guess) not to leave the bike plugged in once they 100% charged.  Said it could lead to battery overheating condition and cause a charging error later on such as mine did when it refused to run.

Keep a lookout for the update from Zero about this change to their current policy of leaving them plugged in all the time.

[Cama]

[...] The dealer passed along that Zero will be releasing an update to all (2017 owners I guess) not to leave the bike plugged in once they 100% charged.  Said it could lead to battery overheating condition and cause a charging error later on such as mine did when it refused to run. [...]

So your Zero hast another onboard-charger? ;-)

Charging with 1,3 kW leads to battery overheating condition? I guess the problem is something different ...

[NEW2elec]

Hi Delnari since you have a 2017 you should post this in the 2013+ section.  Seems strange to cause over heating since they are only pulling like .24 amps once they are full. but do what they say to cover your warranty.

[Richard230]

Hi Delnari since you have a 2017 you should post this in the 2013+ section.  Seems strange to cause over heating since they are only pulling like .24 amps once they are full. but do what they say to cover your warranty.

I happen to have my 2014S connected to a Kill A Watt meter today and note that when fully charged the system is pulling only .08 watt from the wall outlet.  When it was charging it was pulling just under 1400 watts.

[Shadow]

Hi Delnari since you have a 2017 you should post this in the 2013+ section.

Report to moderator works too...  Moving.

[Doug S]

I happen to have my 2014S connected to a Kill A Watt meter today and note that when fully charged the system is pulling only .08 watt from the wall outlet.  When it was charging it was pulling just under 1400 watts.

A key part of your post...the year of your bike. It sounds like they're recommending unplugging on the 2017, and perhaps going forward. I wonder, did they pull a Samsung? In search of ever-higher battery capacity, did they push the charging voltage too far and now there's a tiny-but-legally-liable risk of the battery overheating? Or is everything unchanged but they feel the need to reduce their legal exposure now? I'm sure as the company grows the lawyers will be taking a more and more active role in minimizing their liability.

[gyrocyclist]

did they push the charging voltage too far and now there's a tiny-but-legally-liable risk of the battery overheating?

I suspect the legally-reliability-risk differs wrt the United States, the European market,
and wherever else in the world Zero has market. An interesting thing I learned at Zero's
10 anniversary celebration is that they have to meet the standards of every country in
which they sell. Case in point: european countries have (if I remember correctly) electrical
emission standards that don't exist in the US -- e.g: what happens to the bike when it passes
under a high voltage AC transmission line.

I'd be very interested to know the origin of "unplug at 100%." But I don't expect the Zero
corporation will come out and say ... I doubt their lawyers would let them.

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

did they push the charging voltage too far and now there's a tiny-but-legally-liable risk of the battery overheating?

Charging voltage has stayed the same, and the range/etc figures are the same for 2017. Regulatory requirements mentioned certainly keep coming up vaguely in comments from Zero employees, so that could be at issue.


Overheating the battery from a BMS and onboard charger as something that precedes a 2-4 error seems unlikely. It sounds more like the BMS can overheat itself if it wakes up and starts cel rebalancing erroneously (this might only happen after a few iterations, hence the "few days" recommendation). The current it can apply to the cells through those interconnects does not seem to be nearly enough, and the 2-4 outcomes result in BMS replacement, not a battery warranty replacement.

[grmarks]

It sounds to me that you got a tempory fix and Zero is working on a permanent one. The BMS and MBB got an upgrade this year so it sounds like a bug. In your case you should definatley do as they say. I would guess that the update will fix the issue so that leaving it plugged in (after the update) will be OK again.

[Richard230]

Something that I find somewhat interesting is that (using the KAW meter) my 2014S, when having used 20% of the pack capacity (80% shown on the dash battery usage estimator), will use just over 2 kWh to recharge to 98%.  Then about 30 hours later the system will wake up, finish recharging to 100% and balancing the cells.  During that 2% recharge cycle, the KAW says that the power consumed at the wall was another 450 watt-hours. Seems like a lot of power to get to that last 2%.   

[NEW2elec]

Richard I've seen mine have very little extra wattage used after it fills up and starts click clacking  maybe .75 kWs more over 48 hours. 13DS with the four Meanwells.

[Richard230]

It does kind of make you wonder how and why charging protocols seem to have changed from year to year. 

[aaronzeromoto]

Hi fellow owners!

Zero is in the process of changing our charging and storage recommendations for 2013 and newer motorcycles, but it has nothing to do with power pack overheating, lawyers, or any of the other issues discussed above.  We’ve learned much from several years of experience with our current cells and from data provided by the manufacturer. We are applying these learnings in a number of areas.  One key change is that we are no longer requiring that you always keep the motorcycle plugged in. In fact, we have found that our 2013 and newer motorcycles should have even longer and healthier lives if the motorcycle is left unplugged when charging isn’t need.  We’ll be launching a communications plan to all owners in the next few weeks, but the new charging recommendations for 2013 and new bikes are:

"Charging Recommendations for 2013 and newer Zero Motorcycles (All Models)

Regular Use
After each use, you should plug your motorcycle into an AC power source to recharge.  Once it is charged, you should disconnect it from the AC power source. Leaving your motorcycle off the charger will maximize long-term power pack health.

While unplugged and keyed off, the motorcycle's electronics will consume a very small amount of power and the power pack will drain extremely slowly. If you don’t ride for an extended period (30 days or more), you may want to plug the motorcycle in for a few hours to charge it prior to your next ride.

Long-term Storage
For planned long-term storage (more than 30 days), we recommend draining the power pack to a ~60% state of charge, and leaving the charger unplugged.

Once again, the power pack will drain extremely slowly over time. Check state of charge (SoC) at least monthly, and charge it back up to 60% if it has dropped below 30%. When you’re ready to take your motorcycle out of storage to ride it again, plug in the charger for at least 24 hours to ensure optimal cell balance is restored.

Warning: Never store your motorcycle at a state of charge of less than 30%. Leaving the power pack discharged below this level for a prolonged period could damage the power pack and void the warranty."

As an owner of multiple Zero motorcycles, I had an impossible time keeping them all plugged in. So from my personal perspective, we are just relaxing our guidelines to make them even more enjoyable.

Regards,
aaronzeromoto

[gyrocyclist]

Long-term Storage
For planned long-term storage (more than 30 days), we recommend draining the power pack to a ~60% state of charge, and leaving the charger unplugged.

Many thanks for the info! Only (slightly snarky) question: is there any way to drain to ~60% aside from going for a ride?
(Fort. I live in the bay area, and can ride year-round)

[Richard230]

I assume that we should pull the plug once the dash display shows 100%, which on my 2014S is after the pack is balanced, which it does about 30 hours after recharging to 98%.