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Author Topic: Too much torque??  (Read 1814 times)

Duskfire

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Too much torque??
« on: February 14, 2017, 06:56:00 AM »

First ride on the SR since I bought it this January, got my new handlebars and mirrors installed, stopped by Napa to show the guy I bought the stupid Torx security screw bit for the throttle the bike and thank him.
The whole shop was curious they all came out and chatted, asked lots of questions, eventually I was ready to go, they all egged me on to see it rocket off, well I pulled onto the main road in sport mode, (something I said I wouldn't use until I got used to it from an ICE bike) almost had the bike straightened out from the corner before I gave it some juice, spun the back wheel and came straight down on my side.
Embarrassing to say the least, knocked my new handlebars loose, ruined my new mirror and tore a good sized chunk of skin off of my booty. Scratched the tank pretty good too but I already have my paint for it, have just been waiting for it to warm up to spray the new color.
Gave me a good shock more than anything, I got the bike after some lady ran over me on my R6 on the same road...
defently need an adjustment period for not having the clutch to control cornering, I had even read all the warnings about too much throttle on corners and I still laid it down! Got my thinking, how do they let people test ride these things! The DS I was in at the dealer didn't have half that torque!


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MichaelJohn

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Re: Too much torque??
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2017, 07:12:54 AM »

I was afraid your post was going to end that way. I learned very quickly to respect the throttle coming out of turns but thankfully I didn't learn the hard way - though I did have the rear tire step out on me a few times when I first got the bike.  It's not as powerful as some ICE bikes I've ridden but it has still has plenty and the power delivery is so sudden that it can catch you out. Sorry you dropped your new bike but you're not the first. Do you have a 2017?

Note to Zero: Traction control please.
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2015 Zero SR - urban terror
2015 Honda NC700X - long distance cruiser

BrianTRice

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Re: Too much torque??
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2017, 07:14:45 AM »

Ouch! :( The torque is easily enough to lose traction in a number of ways.

I remember riding through the winter in Seattle and generally having to mind wet leaves, gravel, mud, etc. I suggest using Eco mode for as long as you can handle it. Well, when your ride is ready again, anyway...

I fishtailed a number of times on my 2013 DS commuting there. I put on a Crampbuster mainly to even out my throttle use, and that's kept me out of trouble; probably helps ease belt strain, too.
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Zero: 2016 DSR, 2013 DS
Also: 2012 Suzuki DL-650 V-Strom Adv

Duskfire

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Re: Too much torque??
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2017, 08:17:08 AM »

Nope 2015 Zero SR bought used with less than 500 miles on it :)


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rider7

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Re: Too much torque??
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2017, 08:45:46 AM »

Duskfire,

same here, I had a double take when I read that you "came down on your side".
I was not ready for that. I thought you'd say your belt snapped or something like that.
I felt so bad for you, especially you were innocently trying to impress with the zero's awesome torque.
I had it (2017 DSR) step out on me 4-5 time now. Once kind of hard so I even felt it in my hip from my reflex recovery move of my body with the leg out.

Although I am used to the rear (provoked) coming out on my ZRX-1200 (120 hp on the rear) which ends in a nice long slide, I must admit that, the weight distribution of the DSR feels slightly different (frame size vs. total weight) in a way that I am going to wait a bit until my tires are less grippy to push the friction threshold any more than getting a micro slide.

I am impressed how you seem to have taken it.

@MichaelJohn, I hear you, but I sincerely hope they don't add any rider aids.
One of the reasons why I love riding so much is that you still have to take it upon you and deal with the forces of physics without a computer automating your ride.
That's just my humble preference.

Duskfire, am glad you're ok (sort off).
show us some pictures of your new color :)

Rider7



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32 years of almost every day riding all year round.

Duskfire

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Re: Too much torque??
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2017, 09:10:55 AM »

Duskfire,

same here, I had a double take when I read that you "came down on your side".
I was not ready for that. I thought you'd say your belt snapped or something like that.
I felt so bad for you, especially you were innocently trying to impress with the zero's awesome torque.
I had it (2017 DSR) step out on me 4-5 time now. Once kind of hard so I even felt it in my hip from my reflex recovery move of my body with the leg out.

Although I am used to the rear (provoked) coming out on my ZRX-1200 (120 hp on the rear) which ends in a nice long slide, I must admit that, the weight distribution of the DSR feels slightly different (frame size vs. total weight) in a way that I am going to wait a bit until my tires are less grippy to push the friction threshold any more than getting a micro slide.

I am impressed how you seem to have taken it.

@MichaelJohn, I hear you, but I sincerely hope they don't add any rider aids.
One of the reasons why I love riding so much is that you still have to take it upon you and deal with the forces of physics without a computer automating your ride.
That's just my humble preference.

Duskfire, am glad you're ok (sort off).
show us some pictures of your new color :)

Rider7

Thanks all for the responses, yeah wasn't too hard on anything other than my ego lol. I've got a clients R1 in front of my paint job and then I'll start a thread for sure, personally I wouldn't complain about extra riding aids, I've got an 1980 KZ 400 for when I wanna rough it, nice little light bike, easy to skid the tires on, but pretty hard to tip it over lol, same with the R6 I only lost grip with it on a very bald tire and was able to pull out of it. Nothing like having a brand new bike with new tires and tipping it over 10 minutes after getting it out of the garage for its maiden voyage...


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Shadow

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Re: Too much torque??
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2017, 09:50:47 AM »

Nothing like having a brand new bike with new tires and tipping it over 10 minutes after getting it out of the garage for its maiden voyage...

I'm glad you're healthy and sharing the story. We can all benefit to know more about the importance of a good helmet, protective riding gear, and crash protection equipment on a bike. Also why Sport mode is completely stupid for the first 1000mi on a Zero... riding in Eco during the first months of ownership was important to limit the stupid things I would be tempted to try, and yet I still had a lot of scary experiences after that time to learn what is Sport mode and how the bike handles. I've tipped my 2016 DSR over in rocky dirt, uphill on pavement, low speed off a curb, uphill into a snow bank, and once while it was moving I jumped off as it sank down into a muddy lake bed. I do appreciate all of the dumb things that can be done when not even trying to impress anyone.
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Fivespeed302

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Re: Too much torque??
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2017, 10:05:48 AM »

I've done it twice on my SR, while never even coming close to doing the same on my R1.  I rode in ECO mode for nearly a year after the second time.  I've only recently started leaving it in custom (100% everything) all the time.  You just have to resist the urge to hammer it while leaned over from a stop or slow pace.  Spinning the tire in the grass repeatedly has helped me get used to it breaking loose, the feeling is very similar to wet pavement.  I still haven't mastered it by any means.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2017, 10:11:59 AM by Fivespeed302 »
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KrazyEd

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Re: Too much torque??
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2017, 10:52:26 AM »

  Maybe I am jaded, or, maybe I got a lemon, but, so far I am much more impressed with my 2013 FX than my 2016 SR.
I have whacked the throttle a few times from a stop in sport and have not been overly impressed. I have had the tire break
traction a time or two in a garage or on concrete, but, haven't had anything scary ( or exciting ) happen while on
asphalt. My general goal with an electric vehicle is for range, so, usually ride it in custom mode with everything set
to minimum except for maximum regen on braking. I have only put a few hundred miles on it and haven't done any
benchmarking so not able to tell if it is me, or, if it is actually the bike. Everything should be up to date as I took it to
Harlan right from picking it up. He did a firmware update and said everything looked good. The bike had 500 miles when
I got it and it has just under 1,000 now.  I have been riding 9 and 10 second ICE bikes for decades so, power isn't new
to me. It is absolutely a more competent road bike than the FX, just less fun ( for me ) than the FX. I picked up a G Tech
performance meter and once I get around to mounting the 12v accessory and the G Tech, I will have some legitimate numbers.
My daily driver ICE bike is a modified 1985 Kawasaki Turbo.
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MostlyBonkers

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Re: Too much torque??
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2017, 02:51:52 PM »

I have to remind myself to put my DS into Eco mode when the roads are wet. I recently got a new set of tyres, which helps a lot though.

The trouble with Eco mode is that it turns the DS into a 125 or maybe a 250. Traction control would allow much safer enjoyment of more of that torque in the wet. The roads are often wet here in England.

With so much torque available, when the tyre let's go it can spin up very quickly and you're on the floor before you know it.

I often don't bother with Eco mode because I lose the feeling that my bike has a bit of umpfh. I'm capable of riding to the conditions but then I'll forget once in a while and push it too much.

Then there's the oil and gravel that we often can't see until it's too late, especially in the dark.

I hope traction control is at the top of the list for the 2018 models. It's the kind of thing that could save a few lives and sell a few more bikes too.
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laramie LC4

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Re: Too much torque??
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2017, 06:20:33 PM »

probably haven't worn in the tires enough yet. they are very slippery on the edges when new. just a slight over application of throttle and whooops. you know the rest.

laters,

laramie  ;)
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Kocho

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Re: Too much torque??
« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2017, 06:29:26 PM »

Hope they do add rider aids beyond ABS and that they it the *right way*, with variable level of assist and an "off" setting for those very few times most of us truly won't benefit from it. It's just silly to not want to have something that could save my bacon only to enjoy not having it in an off-road or track situation that I would just about never encounter anyway (at any other time there is simply no reason for it to be absent other than cost). A good aid still allows plenty of control and only kicks-in when the rider' ability is exceeded. Even racing bikes on and off road these days rely on aids to increase their performance. There is simply no valid argument other than cost for not having them these days...

...I sincerely hope they don't add any rider aids.
One of the reasons why I love riding so much is that you still have to take it upon you and deal with the forces of physics without a computer automating your ride.

Rider7
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Fred

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Re: Too much torque??
« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2017, 07:34:24 PM »

I'm with Rider7 that I don't see a need for these aids. In fact the FXS I've got on order will be the first bike I've ever owned with ABS. Us old guys learned to ride without them. (Only last month I locked up the front under emergency braking on cold tarmac and tyres. Managed to save it - with a little bit of luck too of course.)

Getting back on topic... Sorry to hear about your off, Duskfire. Glad to hear you're unharmed and seem to be taking it well.

I know a Honda dealer who trashed a Fireblade with 0.3 miles on the clock under similar circumstances. He was just about to hand it over to a customer.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2017, 07:38:07 PM by Fred »
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Richard230

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Re: Too much torque??
« Reply #13 on: February 14, 2017, 09:10:34 PM »

I have had ABS on a couple of BMWs in the past and also have traction control and cornering ABS on my latest BMW. I have never felt any of these features being activated while I am riding.  So far they appear to be a waste of money and add extra weight to my motorcycle to me.   ???  I might also add that I have "semi-active" automatic suspension on my R12RS and I can't tell any difference in its operation compared with the "dumb" suspension that I have on my other motorcycles. Frankly, I just don't get a lot of these latest electronic devices.  To me they seem more like marketing promotions and a way to charge more money for the product.   ???  Just one more thing to go wrong.   ::)  I like a simple life where I get to make all of my riding choices and suffer the consequences according.  Otherwise how can you learn from your mistakes?   ;)
« Last Edit: February 14, 2017, 09:12:26 PM by Richard230 »
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Richard's motorcycle collection:  2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2005 Triumph T-100 Bonneville, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

Kenmc_3

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Re: Too much torque??
« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2017, 12:32:23 AM »

I have a 2015 FX 5.7 and almost lost it coming off of grass and goosing it on the pavement. It left quite a long curvy black streak before I got it shut down! Definitely scary. Sorry you got hurt. Hopefully will heal quickly. I use the custom mode to keep the power under better control. Of course I Do love the ability to wheelie!  It is definitely the most fun bike I've owned.
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